Selfish, Sloppy, Unwatchable

So why in the crap am I on the East Coast, can't sleep and it's 3:30am?

Because this brand of BBall is MADDENING!!!

BYU finally ties the game at 59 with 4:51 remaining and most of you will not even know what this game was like. Byu may win but they have had to overcome--

A double digit deficit most of the game bc of--

Selfish shooting that is just jacking up deep threes and getting "mine",

Over 25 turnovers and multiple offensive fouls, SLOPPY-

HORRIBLE HOORIBLE--worst in many years free throw shooting, 5-17 free throws--

What the freak is Rose doing in practice!!??

Fisher is hard to watch! He's selfish and forces the game.

KC won't get drafted shooting 30% free throws.

Defense isn't all that great and often times frantic or lazy.

And still BYU may pull this out down by two w :57 to go.

Wait for it...



Down two with KC on the line and makes 1-2. Ugh. KC is 4-9 for game with one air ball FT...

And KC gets the rebound w 6 seconds remaining and proceeds to turn the ball over--UN-FRAKIN--BELIEVABLE. Byu has to foul, down one, two free throws.



And then Davis throws a weak-A pass half court and KC doesn't cone to meet it and it gets tipped out and leaves 1 second remaining to make a shot...

And Davis throws another weakA inbound pass and it's OVER.



MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT, HAWK. BYU has some serious deficits to overcome to become even a good team.



Simply UNWATCHABLE! SELFISH, ARROGANT, UNDISCIPLINED, SLOPPY! And what's the word for excremental (cause it certainly ain't incremental) FT shooting?

And who the freak agreed to this dumbA late start?



I'm a hopeless Cougar fan. I love 'em but I don't gave to like them right now.

I'm pissed. It's 4am. Probably won't go to sleep. Have mtgs all day. Rediculous. I'm sure this post is UNREADABLE. Sorry folks.



Get a clue BYU or this is going to be a long season of discontent.

We lost! Wow...pathetic week for BYU men's sports.



No reason we should lose to Long Beach, ever.



I didn't watch the game, but if it was anything like the UVU game, I am not surprised by the selfish, out of control play.



If Rose doesn't right the ship ASAP, we're headed to the NIT.



I think we have some egos on the team, combined with some young, competitive players that are too busy worrying about impressing Rose with a full stat sheet. They probably thought they could waltz past Long Beach.



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I stayed up to watch, and regret it.



Very disappointed with the free throw shooting.



Kaufusi was the lone bright spot. He was great! (He was 3-4 from the line as well). If only we fed him on every possession, we would have beaten LBSU by 30.

I woke up early at 4:30 this morning to watch it on the DVR. Was very glad I did...for about the first 5 minutes. When the 10-2 lead evaporated into an 18-10 deficit, the game went into fast forward mode. I was done watching in about 10 minutes and back in bed for another hour of sleep :sick: This team better figure some things out quickly or it will be a very average season.

Make no mistake about it, this is a very bad loss and with the very bad schedule we have this year it alone almost pushes BYU out of any chance of a NCAA Tournament Invite. We simply do not have the games on the schedule to make up for bad losses.

hawkwing wrote:
Make no mistake about it, this is a very bad loss and with the very bad schedule we have this year it alone almost pushes BYU out of any chance of a NCAA Tournament Invite. We simply do not have the games on the schedule to make up for bad losses.

I don't think this loss alone will kill NCAA chances. Win on the road at Utah in a couple of weeks and it more than compensates for a loss to LBSU on the road. I do agree that there is very little wiggle room for any losses of this nature moving forward.

Wolverine wrote:

Make no mistake about it, this is a very bad loss and with the very bad schedule we have this year it alone almost pushes BYU out of any chance of a NCAA Tournament Invite. We simply do not have the games on the schedule to make up for bad losses.

I don't think this loss alone will kill NCAA chances. Win on the road at Utah in a couple of weeks and it more than compensates for a loss to LBSU on the road. I do agree that there is very little wiggle room for any losses of this nature moving forward.

You're right, one very bad loss will never be enough by itself to derail the chances, we just need to keep in mind that we only have a handful of possible good win chances this season and we will have to win them when we can, we do that and we still have a great shot of making the tourney. But if we drop a couple games to Pepperdine or some other bad teams on our schedule we're in trouble.

hawkwing wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
Make no mistake about it, this is a very bad loss and with the very bad schedule we have this year it alone almost pushes BYU out of any chance of a NCAA Tournament Invite. We simply do not have the games on the schedule to make up for bad losses.

I don't think this loss alone will kill NCAA chances. Win on the road at Utah in a couple of weeks and it more than compensates for a loss to LBSU on the road. I do agree that there is very little wiggle room for any losses of this nature moving forward.

You're right, one very bad loss will never be enough by itself to derail the chances, we just need to keep in mind that we only have a handful of possible good win chances this season and we will have to win them when we can, we do that and we still have a great shot of making the tourney. But if we drop a couple games to Pepperdine or some other bad teams on our schedule we're in trouble.

Very true. Conference losses to anyone not named Gonzaga this year won't be viewed as favorably by the Committee come March as they have been in the past.

MesaCougFan wrote:
I stayed up to watch, and regret it.



Very disappointed with the free throw shooting.



Kaufusi was the lone bright spot. He was great! (He was 3-4 from the line as well). If only we fed him on every possession, we would have beaten LBSU by 30.

Aytes was also a bright spot. I don't think ANYONE thought he'd go 4/5 from the field with some nice post moves and play very solid defense and show that he is probably really going to help us this year.



We did try to feed the post. We got over half our points from the inside. That wasn't the problem. The problem was making bad passes in trying to get through LBSU's defense on the perimeter. Also, Davis especially made some rushed bad passes in trying to kick it back out when he was covered.

Gunk wrote:
We lost! Wow...pathetic week for BYU men's sports.



No reason we should lose to Long Beach, ever.



I didn't watch the game, but if it was anything like the UVU game, I am not surprised by the selfish, out of control play.



If Rose doesn't right the ship ASAP, we're headed to the NIT.



I think we have some egos on the team, combined with some young, competitive players that are too busy worrying about impressing Rose with a full stat sheet. They probably thought they could waltz past Long Beach.



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I don't think it was really about being selfish or having egos as much as it was impatient, rushed and panicked play by the guards too much of the time. They did try to feed the post, which was a good thing. Over half our points came from the bigs, which is something we haven't seen in the last 3-4 years. If the guards can learn to settle down and play with a little more patience and confidence, the season can still be good.



Also, I'm not sure LBS is really that horrible of a team. i mean, they have transfers from schools like Maryland and USC. They don't have much size but they do have some talent. With them it was more about not knowing what they have since like us they almost completely turned over their team from last year. With the non-conference schedule they have (BYU, Seton Hall, Oklahoma state, SDSU, UCLA, Oregon, Arizona, Duke) they may very well have a decent rpi at the end of the year since rpi is essentially 75% about SOS. If they can do well in their conference it will actually not look like a terrible loss to the committee because of the rpi their SOS is going to give them.

Absolutely the worst basketball I've seen the Y play since the Law brothers were our guards in 1975. They looked like they just arrived on campus yesterday and had never played or practiced together.



I still have a terrible taste in my mouth when I think about what I saw. :sick:



Go Cougs...do better!!!



L Hatton

Louisville, KY

I feel like once we jumped out to a 10-2 lead, maybe some of the players felt like that was how the whole game was going to go and they relaxed a little bit. A couple lazy passes get picked off for big dunks on the other end, a few careless fouls put KC on the bench early, and next thing you know we're down 18-10. Some of the young guys panick which makes them play even worse. It's a miracle they got back in that game at all.



I like some of the new post moves Kaufusi showed, but he was also getting the ball knocked out of his hand way too often.



I love what I saw from Aytes. He was a man among boys out their and showed some great moves down low.



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Didn't watch the game, was feeling very sick last night. sounds like:



the perimeter was overmatched by quicker guards. The post played well which was LBSUs plan, get the interior beat them, take away BYU's momentum with the 3. Worked well.



One loss doesn't a season make, but it is a foreboding sign as the WCC is made up of similar teams. BYU struggled against LBSU last year at home as well, they are a problem team for BYU.



Time to get to work. Very encouraged actually by the post scoring. Way to go bigs.



Can't believe we are back to awful FT shooting hurting this team, after they did so well last year.



Fischer with a complete disappearing act; 2 points 25 minutes. If you have a guy who can lock Chase down, he's not going to score much. Chatman on the other hand appears to have rose to the occasion. 8 points in 13 minutes along with 2 rebounds and a BLOCK!



Scary line here, hopefully doesn't represent a trend (maybe just facing a great defender?); Fischer and Emery combinged for 49 minutes, 2/15 shooting, 0/8 3pt, 3 rebounds (all emery), 2 assists (all fischer), 0 blocks, 4 TOs, 6 fouls (fischer with 5) and 4 points. OUCH! not much bang for buck.



***I wrote all this this morning, just noticed it never got submitted***

Cougs_Rule wrote:
So why in the crap am I on the East Coast, can't sleep and it's 3:30am?

Because this brand of BBall is MADDENING!!!

BYU finally ties the game at 59 with 4:51 remaining and most of you will not even know what this game was like. Byu may win but they have had to overcome--

A double digit deficit most of the game bc of--

Selfish shooting that is just jacking up deep threes and getting "mine",

Over 25 turnovers and multiple offensive fouls, SLOPPY-

HORRIBLE HOORIBLE--worst in many years free throw shooting, 5-17 free throws--

What the freak is Rose doing in practice!!??

Fisher is hard to watch! He's selfish and forces the game.

KC won't get drafted shooting 30% free throws.

Defense isn't all that great and often times frantic or lazy.

And still BYU may pull this out down by two w :57 to go.

Wait for it...



Down two with KC on the line and makes 1-2. Ugh. KC is 4-9 for game with one air ball FT...

And KC gets the rebound w 6 seconds remaining and proceeds to turn the ball over--UN-FRAKIN--BELIEVABLE. Byu has to foul, down one, two free throws.



And then Davis throws a weak-A pass half court and KC doesn't cone to meet it and it gets tipped out and leaves 1 second remaining to make a shot...

And Davis throws another weakA inbound pass and it's OVER.



MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT, HAWK. BYU has some serious deficits to overcome to become even a good team.



Simply UNWATCHABLE! SELFISH, ARROGANT, UNDISCIPLINED, SLOPPY! And what's the word for excremental (cause it certainly ain't incremental) FT shooting?

And who the freak agreed to this dumbA late start?



I'm a hopeless Cougar fan. I love 'em but I don't gave to like them right now.

I'm pissed. It's 4am. Probably won't go to sleep. Have mtgs all day. Rediculous. I'm sure this post is UNREADABLE. Sorry folks.



Get a clue BYU or this is going to be a long season of discontent.

Ha ha. Makes me glad I wasn't able to stay up and watch the game. Best Rant I've read on here for quite some time.

BroncoBot wrote:
Didn't watch the game, was feeling very sick last night. sounds like:



the perimeter was overmatched by quicker guards. The post played well which was LBSUs plan, get the interior beat them, take away BYU's momentum with the 3. Worked well.



One loss doesn't a season make, but it is a foreboding sign as the WCC is made up of similar teams. BYU struggled against LBSU last year at home as well, they are a problem team for BYU.



Time to get to work. Very encouraged actually by the post scoring. Way to go bigs.



Can't believe we are back to awful FT shooting hurting this team, after they did so well last year.



Fischer with a complete disappearing act; 2 points 25 minutes. If you have a guy who can lock Chase down, he's not going to score much. Chatman on the other hand appears to have rose to the occasion. 8 points in 13 minutes along with 2 rebounds and a BLOCK!



Scary line here, hopefully doesn't represent a trend (maybe just facing a great defender?); Fischer and Emery combinged for 49 minutes, 2/15 shooting, 0/8 3pt, 3 rebounds (all emery), 2 assists (all fischer), 0 blocks, 4 TOs, 6 fouls (fischer with 5) and 4 points. OUCH! not much bang for buck.



***I wrote all this this morning, just noticed it never got submitted***

If Chatman had 4 times the points in half the time why did he have half the time Fisher did? It has been asked before by more than one of us, why are we crossing center court and firing 3s especially when they're not dropping? Sorry to be negative but I feel the team can be better than this.

nuk13 wrote:

Didn't watch the game, was feeling very sick last night. sounds like:



the perimeter was overmatched by quicker guards. The post played well which was LBSUs plan, get the interior beat them, take away BYU's momentum with the 3. Worked well.



One loss doesn't a season make, but it is a foreboding sign as the WCC is made up of similar teams. BYU struggled against LBSU last year at home as well, they are a problem team for BYU.



Time to get to work. Very encouraged actually by the post scoring. Way to go bigs.



Can't believe we are back to awful FT shooting hurting this team, after they did so well last year.



Fischer with a complete disappearing act; 2 points 25 minutes. If you have a guy who can lock Chase down, he's not going to score much. Chatman on the other hand appears to have rose to the occasion. 8 points in 13 minutes along with 2 rebounds and a BLOCK!



Scary line here, hopefully doesn't represent a trend (maybe just facing a great defender?); Fischer and Emery combinged for 49 minutes, 2/15 shooting, 0/8 3pt, 3 rebounds (all emery), 2 assists (all fischer), 0 blocks, 4 TOs, 6 fouls (fischer with 5) and 4 points. OUCH! not much bang for buck.



***I wrote all this this morning, just noticed it never got submitted***

If Chatman had 4 times the points in half the time why did he have half the time Fisher did? It has been asked before by more than one of us, why are we crossing center court and firing 3s especially when they're not dropping? Sorry to be negative but I feel the team can be better than this.

It's a great question. Over on the football thread the question was raised, better player vs player who earned it. I believe fischer is currently in the "earned" it category and was placed there by Dave Rose. He's definitely not the worst guard out there, but I believe BYU could look other places and develop much more potent guards (Chatman looks promising).



Why cross center court and fire 3s? Isn't that quintessential Dave Rose basketball? Does this team even have any half court plays? If they don't get that first open shot, things start to deteriorate on offense very quickly. It would be an interesting study - shot clock vs scoring percentage per possession. Does BYU make more points in the first 10, next 10, remaining time. I'd imagine BYU scores most of their points in the first 10 seconds (I'd guess 80% of their points). And the majority of the rest of their points come from the perimeter on 3s.

BlueK wrote:

We lost! Wow...pathetic week for BYU men's sports.



No reason we should lose to Long Beach, ever.



I didn't watch the game, but if it was anything like the UVU game, I am not surprised by the selfish, out of control play.



If Rose doesn't right the ship ASAP, we're headed to the NIT.



I think we have some egos on the team, combined with some young, competitive players that are too busy worrying about impressing Rose with a full stat sheet. They probably thought they could waltz past Long Beach.



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I don't think it was really about being selfish or having egos as much as it was impatient, rushed and panicked play by the guards too much of the time. They did try to feed the post, which was a good thing. Over half our points came from the bigs, which is something we haven't seen in the last 3-4 years. If the guards can learn to settle down and play with a little more patience and confidence, the season can still be good.

Agree that it was not selfishness, but just very sloppy play. KC drives with no idea of what he's going to do. I do think the refs were a bit too happy to call charges although that last one on Fischer definitely was the correct call.

Fischer does a no show every other game. And once in a while we'll go off for 10 threes in a game, which is why he gets the start. I'd take consistency over the potential. You can game plan around consistency.



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byufan4ever wrote:

Gunk wrote:
We lost! Wow...pathetic week for BYU men's sports.



No reason we should lose to Long Beach, ever.



I didn't watch the game, but if it was anything like the UVU game, I am not surprised by the selfish, out of control play.



If Rose doesn't right the ship ASAP, we're headed to the NIT.



I think we have some egos on the team, combined with some young, competitive players that are too busy worrying about impressing Rose with a full stat sheet. They probably thought they could waltz past Long Beach.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

I don't think it was really about being selfish or having egos as much as it was impatient, rushed and panicked play by the guards too much of the time. They did try to feed the post, which was a good thing. Over half our points came from the bigs, which is something we haven't seen in the last 3-4 years. If the guards can learn to settle down and play with a little more patience and confidence, the season can still be good.

Agree that it was not selfishness, but just very sloppy play. KC drives with no idea of what he's going to do. I do think the refs were a bit too happy to call charges although that last one on Fischer definitely was the correct call.

But, I thought sloppy play was synonymous with selfish play. That's the logic many used to berate Carlino with on here.



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Gunk wrote:

BlueK wrote:

We lost! Wow...pathetic week for BYU men's sports.



No reason we should lose to Long Beach, ever.



I didn't watch the game, but if it was anything like the UVU game, I am not surprised by the selfish, out of control play.



If Rose doesn't right the ship ASAP, we're headed to the NIT.



I think we have some egos on the team, combined with some young, competitive players that are too busy worrying about impressing Rose with a full stat sheet. They probably thought they could waltz past Long Beach.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

I don't think it was really about being selfish or having egos as much as it was impatient, rushed and panicked play by the guards too much of the time. They did try to feed the post, which was a good thing. Over half our points came from the bigs, which is something we haven't seen in the last 3-4 years. If the guards can learn to settle down and play with a little more patience and confidence, the season can still be good.

Agree that it was not selfishness, but just very sloppy play. KC drives with no idea of what he's going to do. I do think the refs were a bit too happy to call charges although that last one on Fischer definitely was the correct call.

But, I thought sloppy play was synonymous with selfish play. That's the logic many used to berate Carlino with on here.



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I don't recall anyone calling Carlino sloppy. Yes, he would definitely jack up 3s 5 seconds into the shot clock even if he had missed his last 10. The thing that frustrated me about Carlino is that he had the toolset to be more than just a huckster. He really could pass the ball and drive well, he just often chose not too. Fischer can shoot 3s (when he's on) and that's about it. Carlino was selfish, not sloppy. Fischer I think has been showing a bit more patience than last season, but he's...just not that good.



But how much of this is Dave Rose's fault? He build the fast paced offense and has apparently given everyone the green light to shoot whenever they want...