Archived Topic

SJSU 2 point conversion attempt

by BroncoBot · 11/7/2015

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BroncoBot
Good idea? Bad idea?



We've had plenty of discussion regarding playcalling and BYU coaches. (BYU @ BSU with Taysom HIll and injured Nelson). Would be interested to hear what you think about the decision to go for 2 instead of almost certainly putting the game into overtime with PAT kick.



Did BYU's run of comebacks factor into the decision?



I think it was a great call. SJSU had the play, wadsworth just made a very good read/cover on the TE. I wonder if SJSU knew they were lucky to have gotten into the endzone for the first time all night (with less than a minute in 4th) after a string of big 4th down conversions/penalties and that odds were against them getting there again vs BYU getting there. Thought it was a gutsy call, but I like it if I'm a SJSU fan.
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Fido
The coach would have been a gutsy genius if it worked and of course gets second-guessed if it doesn't. He was trying to ride some momentum and the pass in the end zone was in and out of the receiver's hands. Wadsworth didn't get a hand on the ball but added to the level of complexity for the receiver to make the catch. That is how close he came to a total upset over BYU. I respect the move.
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Jarhead
I felt like they were going to go for two well before they even scored (if they ended up scoring). Normally, I don't recommend going for two in a game where your offense has struggled to score.



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scott715
I think BYU wins in OT so it was a good call.



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Brayden Green
I told my dad they were going for two when they were at the 50 and hadn't scored yet. They had nothing to lose. It was a great call. BYU's offensive players (and the coach, mostly) did everything it could to lose that game. With NFL sudden death you roll the dice, tie it up, and hope you get the ball first. In college you don't have a prayer of beating BYU in a matched system. BYU would have stuck in max blockers and rammed it down SJSU's throat for repeated TDs. At least l, that's what I hope they would have done, and that's what we should have been doing the entire game after the two drives when they went into full blitz mode.



BYU's talent is FAR SUPERIOR to SJSU. But the (offensive) coaching? I would've gladly swapped coaches last night. They did the right thing going for the win. They had no business being in that game after the first quarter. They were playing with house money.



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Brayden Green
Fido wrote:
The coach would have been a gutsy genius if it worked and of course gets second-guessed if it doesn't. He was trying to ride some momentum and the pass in the end zone was in and out of the receiver's hands. Wadsworth didn't get a hand on the ball but added to the level of complexity for the receiver to make the catch. That is how close he came to a total upset over BYU. I respect the move.


Nice way to word it lol. Wadsworth totally PI'd him by grabbing his right arm (that he was trying to bring up to catch the ball). After the Phantom PI in the endzone for the TD, it was a good make up no-call.



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mtnradio
SJSU made the right call to go for 2. When you offense hasn't been successful and got some breaks to score ... foolish to believe will win in OT. Go for 2 was the right call.
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SpiffCoug
There was more pass interference on the 2-pt conversion than there was on the pass that set them up at the 6-yard line.
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scott715
I think he hit his arm as the ball arrived, no pass interference.
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Guest
Go for the win. Good call. Plus, the refs showed them they had their back that entire drive, so go with it.
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Brayden Green
SpiffCoug wrote:
There was more pass interference on the 2-pt conversion than there was on the pass that set them up at the 6-yard line.


Definitely. It was a make up no call. It was pretty clear pass interference. He has his left arm holding the tight ends right arm down, and he couldn't get it up to catch the ball.



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Ungoy
It might have been a make up call for them never calling holding on SJSU's line. Kaufusi was held all game long. There was an egregious hold on the play that set up the TD when they called the PI.
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stuckinbig10country
I think BYU made the right call in 2012, and had the backside guard made his block, Hill walks in. It was the right call because it was the only time they moved the ball all night.



With the way SJSU had dominated since the 2nd quarter. Spartans should have gone for 1 and played OT. They likely beat BYU in OT.



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TheDean
stuckinbig10country wrote:
I think BYU made the right call in 2012, and had the backside guard made his block, Hill walks in. It was the right call because it was the only time they moved the ball all night.



With the way SJSU had dominated since the 2nd quarter. Spartans should have gone for 1 and played OT. They likely beat BYU in OT.



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I disagree as BYU took all 4 quarters of the game just to score their only TD against Boise St.. Just what makes anyone think that BYU would succeed on the 2 point conversion when they hadn't succeeded on any other short yardage play in the entire game and with how predictable Anae's offense is. I turned to my family after the TD and said that if BYU goes for 2 as it would backfire and they will lose and it did on both counts. The better choice would have been to kick the PAT go into OT and try to win it there.



I found it interesting that Bronco went up to San Jose's HC and told him that he would have gone for 2 as well. Considering Bronco's record on 2 point conversions is 0-3 I think he would have better off keeping his mouth shut on the subject. Not just because he is 0-3 but based on the way the 2 point conversions were ran and the choice of their timing. Even though the one against Boise St. mentioned above was a bad choice all around. All of the 2 point conversions were doomed to failure because of the plays called in the attempt not only were they crappy play calls but were overly conservative and predictable as all 3 were runs right up the middle where a majority of the defense is. Which also show a serious lack of creativity on Anae's part.
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redneckjedi
TheDean wrote:
I think BYU made the right call in 2012, and had the backside guard made his block, Hill walks in. It was the right call because it was the only time they moved the ball all night.



With the way SJSU had dominated since the 2nd quarter. Spartans should have gone for 1 and played OT. They likely beat BYU in OT.



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I disagree as BYU took all 4 quarters of the game just to score their only TD against Boise St.. Just what makes anyone think that BYU would succeed on the 2 point conversion when they hadn't succeeded on any other short yardage play in the entire game and with how predictable Anae's offense is. I turned to my family after the TD and said that if BYU goes for 2 as it would backfire and they will lose and it did on both counts. The better choice would have been to kick the PAT go into OT and try to win it there.



I found it interesting that Bronco went up to San Jose's HC and told him that he would have gone for 2 as well. Considering Bronco's record on 2 point conversions is 0-3 I think he would have better off keeping his mouth shut on the subject. Not just because he is 0-3 but based on the way the 2 point conversions were ran and the choice of their timing. Even though the one against Boise St. mentioned above was a bad choice all around. All of the 2 point conversions were doomed to failure because of the plays called in the attempt not only were they crappy play calls but were overly conservative and predictable as all 3 were runs right up the middle where a majority of the defense is. Which also show a serious lack of creativity on Anae's part.


So, you're saying we had a better shot from 25 yards out than from 3? :skeptic:
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TheDean
redneckjedi wrote:
stuckinbig10country wrote:
I think BYU made the right call in 2012, and had the backside guard made his block, Hill walks in. It was the right call because it was the only time they moved the ball all night.



With the way SJSU had dominated since the 2nd quarter. Spartans should have gone for 1 and played OT. They likely beat BYU in OT.



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I disagree as BYU took all 4 quarters of the game just to score their only TD against Boise St.. Just what makes anyone think that BYU would succeed on the 2 point conversion when they hadn't succeeded on any other short yardage play in the entire game and with how predictable Anae's offense is. I turned to my family after the TD and said that if BYU goes for 2 as it would backfire and they will lose and it did on both counts. The better choice would have been to kick the PAT go into OT and try to win it there.



I found it interesting that Bronco went up to San Jose's HC and told him that he would have gone for 2 as well. Considering Bronco's record on 2 point conversions is 0-3 I think he would have better off keeping his mouth shut on the subject. Not just because he is 0-3 but based on the way the 2 point conversions were ran and the choice of their timing. Even though the one against Boise St. mentioned above was a bad choice all around. All of the 2 point conversions were doomed to failure because of the plays called in the attempt not only were they crappy play calls but were overly conservative and predictable as all 3 were runs right up the middle where a majority of the defense is. Which also show a serious lack of creativity on Anae's part.


So, you're saying we had a better shot from 25 yards out than from 3? :skeptic:




Umm....Yeah, with a field goal which has a higher % than any of BYU's run up the middle plays when the defense is ready and waiting, because that is the only thing Anae knows how to call on short yardage plays.



Had BYU kicked the PAT you would have gone in to overtime and based on the way the defenses of both teams were playing neither would score a TD so it goes down to who had the better FG kicker and would go on until one missed their FG.



Plus it would have also given the BYU offense another chance to score a TD. The 2 point try did not have any chance of doing that.
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BOID
Good points Dean, but IIRC, Bronco's 2007 team converted 2 pts to go up by 7 against the Utes. The play was a cross route right to left, with reception in the back of the end zone by Austin Collie from Max Hall. I know, it was 8 years ago. I was also bummed over the failed 2 pt conv against BSU. You would think, with Taysom Hill, that a play from 3 yards out would be money. Oh well. I have not kept track of all 2pt conv attempts since then, so, in the words of Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that.



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redneckjedi
TheDean wrote:
TheDean wrote:
I think BYU made the right call in 2012, and had the backside guard made his block, Hill walks in. It was the right call because it was the only time they moved the ball all night.



With the way SJSU had dominated since the 2nd quarter. Spartans should have gone for 1 and played OT. They likely beat BYU in OT.



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I disagree as BYU took all 4 quarters of the game just to score their only TD against Boise St.. Just what makes anyone think that BYU would succeed on the 2 point conversion when they hadn't succeeded on any other short yardage play in the entire game and with how predictable Anae's offense is. I turned to my family after the TD and said that if BYU goes for 2 as it would backfire and they will lose and it did on both counts. The better choice would have been to kick the PAT go into OT and try to win it there.



I found it interesting that Bronco went up to San Jose's HC and told him that he would have gone for 2 as well. Considering Bronco's record on 2 point conversions is 0-3 I think he would have better off keeping his mouth shut on the subject. Not just because he is 0-3 but based on the way the 2 point conversions were ran and the choice of their timing. Even though the one against Boise St. mentioned above was a bad choice all around. All of the 2 point conversions were doomed to failure because of the plays called in the attempt not only were they crappy play calls but were overly conservative and predictable as all 3 were runs right up the middle where a majority of the defense is. Which also show a serious lack of creativity on Anae's part.


So, you're saying we had a better shot from 25 yards out than from 3? :skeptic:




Umm....Yeah, with a field goal which has a higher % than any of BYU's run up the middle plays when the defense is ready and waiting, because that is the only thing Anae knows how to call on short yardage plays.



Had BYU kicked the PAT you would have gone in to overtime and based on the way the defenses of both teams were playing neither would score a TD so it goes down to who had the better FG kicker and would go on until one missed their FG.



Plus it would have also given the BYU offense another chance to score a TD. The 2 point try did not have any chance of doing that.


You seem to be confused. In 2012, Anae was at Arizona, and had nothing to do with our offense. The reason we had issues in that game was Brandon Doman playing a hurt Riley Nelson, because he wasn't sure a freshman Hill would be up to the challenge, and it took a pick 6 from Nelson and a last-minute TD drive from Hill to demonstrate otherwise.



Further, the play call was a rollout run-pass option for Hill, which he had successfully converted in the first game of the season, not a run up the middle. As noted by others, the play would have been successful had the blocking execution been better. Additionally, a little more touch on the ball gets the pass completed despite the bad blocking.



The only argument you can make against the 2-pt call is that at the end, our offense had momentum and theirs did not, and none of us have enough information to determine that. that would continue What we don't know is whether or not our defense was too gassed to continue holding them out of the endzone. Pitching a defensive shutout is hard against anyone, let alone Boise St. at home. It all boils down to, do you like the odds of Hill picking up 3 yards on a run-pass option that he has succeeded with before, or the odds of your defense continuing to pitch a shutout and Hill picking up 25 yards over a series of plays. There are a lot more unknowns in option 2, especially with Hill being a freshman at the time. Personally, I would have kicked it, with the knowledge I had at the time. I certainly yelled it at the TV that night. Maybe if I'm in Bronco's position and know what I know about my players' condition, though, I don't.
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TheDean
redneckjedi wrote:
redneckjedi wrote:
stuckinbig10country wrote:
I think BYU made the right call in 2012, and had the backside guard made his block, Hill walks in. It was the right call because it was the only time they moved the ball all night.



With the way SJSU had dominated since the 2nd quarter. Spartans should have gone for 1 and played OT. They likely beat BYU in OT.



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I disagree as BYU took all 4 quarters of the game just to score their only TD against Boise St.. Just what makes anyone think that BYU would succeed on the 2 point conversion when they hadn't succeeded on any other short yardage play in the entire game and with how predictable Anae's offense is. I turned to my family after the TD and said that if BYU goes for 2 as it would backfire and they will lose and it did on both counts. The better choice would have been to kick the PAT go into OT and try to win it there.



I found it interesting that Bronco went up to San Jose's HC and told him that he would have gone for 2 as well. Considering Bronco's record on 2 point conversions is 0-3 I think he would have better off keeping his mouth shut on the subject. Not just because he is 0-3 but based on the way the 2 point conversions were ran and the choice of their timing. Even though the one against Boise St. mentioned above was a bad choice all around. All of the 2 point conversions were doomed to failure because of the plays called in the attempt not only were they crappy play calls but were overly conservative and predictable as all 3 were runs right up the middle where a majority of the defense is. Which also show a serious lack of creativity on Anae's part.


So, you're saying we had a better shot from 25 yards out than from 3? :skeptic:




Umm....Yeah, with a field goal which has a higher % than any of BYU's run up the middle plays when the defense is ready and waiting, because that is the only thing Anae knows how to call on short yardage plays.



Had BYU kicked the PAT you would have gone in to overtime and based on the way the defenses of both teams were playing neither would score a TD so it goes down to who had the better FG kicker and would go on until one missed their FG.



Plus it would have also given the BYU offense another chance to score a TD. The 2 point try did not have any chance of doing that.


You seem to be confused. In 2012, Anae was at Arizona, and had nothing to do with our offense. The reason we had issues in that game was Brandon Doman playing a hurt Riley Nelson, because he wasn't sure a freshman Hill would be up to the challenge, and it took a pick 6 from Nelson and a last-minute TD drive from Hill to demonstrate otherwise.



Further, the play call was a rollout run-pass option for Hill, which he had successfully converted in the first game of the season, not a run up the middle. As noted by others, the play would have been successful had the blocking execution been better. Additionally, a little more touch on the ball gets the pass completed despite the bad blocking.



The only argument you can make against the 2-pt call is that at the end, our offense had momentum and theirs did not, and none of us have enough information to determine that. that would continue What we don't know is whether or not our defense was too gassed to continue holding them out of the endzone. Pitching a defensive shutout is hard against anyone, let alone Boise St. at home. It all boils down to, do you like the odds of Hill picking up 3 yards on a run-pass option that he has succeeded with before, or the odds of your defense continuing to pitch a shutout and Hill picking up 25 yards over a series of plays. There are a lot more unknowns in option 2, especially with Hill being a freshman at the time. Personally, I would have kicked it, with the knowledge I had at the time. I certainly yelled it at the TV that night. Maybe if I'm in Bronco's position and know what I know about my players' condition, though, I don't.


Some momentum as the play was stuffed due too the lack of creativity and predictability in the pay call and both teams did pitch a defensive shut out for 90% of the game. 2 point conversions by nature are low % plays and have a success rate of about 15%-20% whereas FG have about a 40% or better chance of succeeding as most FG are gotten off but only fail if the kick is sent off to one side or the other or falls short because it wasn't kicked hard enough. BYU chances of a successful 2 point conversion was close to nil as it took BYU all but the last minutes or less of the game to finally score their only TD and that happened because BYU had a short field to work with. The way both defenses played the entire game trumped any chance of the 2 point conversion be successful as was shown by how easily Boise St. was able to stuff it for a loss as I recall nor do I think the play would have been successful had the blocking been better as Boise St. was ready for it and had the play read which caused the play execution to be off. Besides if the offense had the kind of momentum like you say they did wouldn't it be better to give them a full set of downs in OT to score than just a single play whose success rate is statistically low???



Everyone that watched the game with me and those that I talked with later were all screaming at the TV screen not to go for 2 as it would fail. I knew before the play was ran based on the way the offense was lined up and BYU history on short yardage plays that it would fail. I wasn't the only one as it became a major topic of conversation as to whether it should have been done or not. Even you yourself said you would have kicked the PAT instead of the 2 point conversion.
S
Stirfry
TheDean wrote:
TheDean wrote:
TheDean wrote:
I think BYU made the right call in 2012, and had the backside guard made his block, Hill walks in. It was the right call because it was the only time they moved the ball all night.



With the way SJSU had dominated since the 2nd quarter. Spartans should have gone for 1 and played OT. They likely beat BYU in OT.



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I disagree as BYU took all 4 quarters of the game just to score their only TD against Boise St.. Just what makes anyone think that BYU would succeed on the 2 point conversion when they hadn't succeeded on any other short yardage play in the entire game and with how predictable Anae's offense is. I turned to my family after the TD and said that if BYU goes for 2 as it would backfire and they will lose and it did on both counts. The better choice would have been to kick the PAT go into OT and try to win it there.



I found it interesting that Bronco went up to San Jose's HC and told him that he would have gone for 2 as well. Considering Bronco's record on 2 point conversions is 0-3 I think he would have better off keeping his mouth shut on the subject. Not just because he is 0-3 but based on the way the 2 point conversions were ran and the choice of their timing. Even though the one against Boise St. mentioned above was a bad choice all around. All of the 2 point conversions were doomed to failure because of the plays called in the attempt not only were they crappy play calls but were overly conservative and predictable as all 3 were runs right up the middle where a majority of the defense is. Which also show a serious lack of creativity on Anae's part.


So, you're saying we had a better shot from 25 yards out than from 3? :skeptic:




Umm....Yeah, with a field goal which has a higher % than any of BYU's run up the middle plays when the defense is ready and waiting, because that is the only thing Anae knows how to call on short yardage plays.



Had BYU kicked the PAT you would have gone in to overtime and based on the way the defenses of both teams were playing neither would score a TD so it goes down to who had the better FG kicker and would go on until one missed their FG.



Plus it would have also given the BYU offense another chance to score a TD. The 2 point try did not have any chance of doing that.


You seem to be confused. In 2012, Anae was at Arizona, and had nothing to do with our offense. The reason we had issues in that game was Brandon Doman playing a hurt Riley Nelson, because he wasn't sure a freshman Hill would be up to the challenge, and it took a pick 6 from Nelson and a last-minute TD drive from Hill to demonstrate otherwise.



Further, the play call was a rollout run-pass option for Hill, which he had successfully converted in the first game of the season, not a run up the middle. As noted by others, the play would have been successful had the blocking execution been better. Additionally, a little more touch on the ball gets the pass completed despite the bad blocking.



The only argument you can make against the 2-pt call is that at the end, our offense had momentum and theirs did not, and none of us have enough information to determine that. that would continue What we don't know is whether or not our defense was too gassed to continue holding them out of the endzone. Pitching a defensive shutout is hard against anyone, let alone Boise St. at home. It all boils down to, do you like the odds of Hill picking up 3 yards on a run-pass option that he has succeeded with before, or the odds of your defense continuing to pitch a shutout and Hill picking up 25 yards over a series of plays. There are a lot more unknowns in option 2, especially with Hill being a freshman at the time. Personally, I would have kicked it, with the knowledge I had at the time. I certainly yelled it at the TV that night. Maybe if I'm in Bronco's position and know what I know about my players' condition, though, I don't.


Some momentum as the play was stuffed due too the lack of creativity and predictability in the pay call and both teams did pitch a defensive shut out for 90% of the game. 2 point conversions by nature are low % plays and have a success rate of about 15%-20% whereas FG have about a 40% or better chance of succeeding as most FG are gotten off but only fail if the kick is sent off to one side or the other or falls short because it wasn't kicked hard enough. BYU chances of a successful 2 point conversion was close to nil as it took BYU all but the last minutes or less of the game to finally score their only TD and that happened because BYU had a short field to work with. The way both defenses played the entire game trumped any chance of the 2 point conversion be successful as was shown by how easily Boise St. was able to stuff it for a loss as I recall nor do I think the play would have been successful had the blocking been better as Boise St. was ready for it and had the play read which caused the play execution to be off. Besides if the offense had the kind of momentum like you say they did wouldn't it be better to give them a full set of downs in OT to score than just a single play whose success rate is statistically low???



Everyone that watched the game with me and those that I talked with later were all screaming at the TV screen not to go for 2 as it would fail. I knew before the play was ran based on the way the offense was lined up and BYU history on short yardage plays that it would fail. I wasn't the only one as it became a major topic of conversation as to whether it should have been done or not. Even you yourself said you would have kicked the PAT instead of the 2 point conversion.

That Boise attempt was 100% on our lineman. It didn't matter what the play call was our lineman threw the worst block of his life and it probably still haunts him to this day. I think his high school freshman self could have done better.



Fortunately I've forgotten his name so I don't have to feel as bad about not forgiving him until we finally knocked Boise off



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