Does BYU have a P5 schedule?

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Looking at FEI's program ratings, which encompasses the past 5 years, BYU plays:



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15. Missouri

21. UCLA

24. Boise State

28. Nebraska

44. Utah State

47. Michigan

50. Cincinnati

57. East Carolina



That's 8 schools in the top 65 in FBS, with one FCS school and 3 G5-level schools.



Next year, we play:



8. Michigan State

21. UCLA

22. Mississippi State

24. Boise State

27. Arizona

31. Utah

41. West Virginia

44. Utah State

50. Cincinnati

53. Toledo



That's 10 schools in the top 65 in FBS. We're still missing one game (most likely a home FCS opponent) and a 1 G5-level school.

latest rumor is that we are working on a series with BC at Provo 2016 and there 2019. If that happens, next year we will play a team from each P5 League. P12 (UCLA, AZ, utah) B12 (WV) B10 (Mich St) ACC (BC) SEC (Miss St).

Put BC on that schedule and it's just pure butchery. Enough already. This is program suicide. Practically a level of sell-out if not total desperation, if not exploitation of our boys that could turn a fan base on its side if it doesn't have at least a marginally acceptable year at 7-5 if not worse at 6-6 or shudder, worse and no bowl game. WHY? TO WHAT END? its shear madness.

"Neuroses is the illegitimate form of suffering." SFreud



"Any virtue pressed to an extreme becomes a vice." BKPacker

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Put BC on that schedule and it's just pure butchery. Enough already. This is program suicide. Practically a level of sell-out if not total desperation, if not exploitation of our boys that could turn a fan base on its side if it doesn't have at least a marginally acceptable year at 7-5 if not worse at 6-6 or shudder, worse and no bowl game. WHY? TO WHAT END? its shear madness.

"Neuroses is the illegitimate form of suffering." SFreud



"Any virtue pressed to an extreme becomes a vice." BKPacker

Disagree. We can beat all the P12 teams, WV, BC, and possibly Miss St in that list, and I'd much rather go .500-.750 against that list than 1.000 against inferior competition. Michigan State would probably be a loss, unless they lose a ton of guys from the current team.



To quote a line from Shenandoah that President Monson loves to quote, "And if we don't try, we don't do. And if we don't do, why are we here on this earth?" I'd rather try and fail than not try at all.

I don't really disagree with vamping up the schedule. The problem I have with it is the negativity from the fans when BYU doesn't go undefeated against the schedule. Take this year for example. BYU is 2-2 against a very difficult schedule even after having lost its starting QB, Starting RB, and Starting Nose tackle for significant time this year and we still have guys wanting to fire all the coaches because of it. If Taysom Hill was still the QB with this schedule, we would probably have idiots calling for his benching wanting Mangum to start (like what happened in 2009 with Max Hall, we had fans asking for Riley Nelson to replace him which prompted Bronco to call the fans ignorant. He still hasn't lived that down).

I hate weak minded people that think weak minded things. Yes, we may get beat up (like TCU and Utah did for 3 years), but it pushes the program to become better. But we could also win.



Of course we play a P5 schedule...we just play it in reverse order.

stuckinbig10country wrote:
I hate weak minded people that think weak minded things. Yes, we may get beat up (like TCU and Utah did for 3 years), but it pushes the program to become better. But we could also win.



Of course we play a P5 schedule...we just play it in reverse order.

I completely agree with you but, the difference between BYU, TCU and Utah is those programs can sell to the recruits not just the brand and the schedule. But also the conference and everything that possibly comes with being in that conference. I do believe BYU is a P5 program but every coach that is recruiting against BYU is going to point out that "technically" they are not. I would like to think that the higher profile schedule will help BYU get better but does the program have 3 years like Utah and TCU did? They are already part of the "dance" no matter how bad they got, BYU needs to look good now.



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frdbtr wrote:
I don't really disagree with vamping up the schedule. The problem I have with it is the negativity from the fans when BYU doesn't go undefeated against the schedule. Take this year for example. BYU is 2-2 against a very difficult schedule even after having lost its starting QB, Starting RB, and Starting Nose tackle for significant time this year and we still have guys wanting to fire all the coaches because of it. If Taysom Hill was still the QB with this schedule, we would probably have idiots calling for his benching wanting Mangum to start (like what happened in 2009 with Max Hall, we had fans asking for Riley Nelson to replace him which prompted Bronco to call the fans ignorant. He still hasn't lived that down).

They are non-credible blowhards, hardly worth considering.....

a1247 wrote:

I hate weak minded people that think weak minded things. Yes, we may get beat up (like TCU and Utah did for 3 years), but it pushes the program to become better. But we could also win.



Of course we play a P5 schedule...we just play it in reverse order.

I completely agree with you but, the difference between BYU, TCU and Utah is those programs can sell to the recruits not just the brand and the schedule. But also the conference and everything that possibly comes with being in that conference. I do believe BYU is a P5 program but every coach that is recruiting against BYU is going to point out that "technically" they are not. I would like to think that the higher profile schedule will help BYU get better but does the program have 3 years like Utah and TCU did? They are already part of the "dance" no matter how bad they got, BYU needs to look good now.



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BYU's recruiting has improved over the time in independence because the coaches can sell them on the amount of people seeing their games and the team's they get to play and the places where they get to play. Next year BYU will likely be the only team to play a team from all five P5 conferences, plus the top team from all the G5 conferences as well (right now Toledo, not BSU would be in the NY6 game).



I don't think we're at P5 level recruiting success right now, but we're going to keep moving away from the G5 talent level.

scott715 wrote:
latest rumor is that we are working on a series with BC at Provo 2016 and there 2019. If that happens, next year we will play a team from each P5 League. P12 (UCLA, AZ, utah) B12 (WV) B10 (Mich St) ACC (BC) SEC (Miss St).

It would also mean no FCS game in 2016.

@ Arizona (N)

@ Utah

UCLA

@ West Virginia (N)

Toledo

@ Michigan State

Mississippi State

@ Boise State

Boston College (tentative)

BYE **this could be before or after the BC game

@ Cincinnati

UMass

Utah State



I guess UMass would fill the role of the FCS game in that schedule. I wonder if that will become a trend given how poorly attended the FCS game has been the last couple of years.

For 2019 it means the road game schedule would be full.

Home

Utah

USC

Washington

Boise State



Road

at Virginia

at Toledo

at Utah State

at Washington State

at UMass

at Boston College (tentative)



Crazy how that goes--the home schedule looks much tougher than the road schedule in 2019.

Home schedules as an independent:

The lean years - there were few P5 home games or regional games that would be high attendance games (Boise State, Utah State). 2012 and 2013 were good but the others only had 1 or 2 "good" games on it.



2011 Utah, UCF, Utah State, San Jose State, Idaho State, Idaho, New Mexico State

2012 Washington State, Weber State, Hawaii, Utah State, Oregon State, Idaho

2013 Texas, Utah, Middle Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Boise State, Idaho State

2014 Houston, Virginia, Utah State, Nevada, UNLV, Savannah State

2015 Boise State, UConn, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Wagner, Fresno State



But starting next season, the independent home schedule really seems to turn around with 3-4 of the 6 home games what I would classify as "draw" games (P5 or good regional games with tickets in demand) and I would expect to see attendance jump accordingly.



2016 UCLA, Toledo, Mississippi State, UMass, Utah State, Boston College [tentative]

2017 Utah, Wisconsin, Boise State, San Jose State, UMass, TBA

2018 Cal, Utah State, Northern Illinois, Hawaii, TBA, TBA

2019 Utah, USC, Washington, Boise State, TBA, TBA

2020 Michigan State, Utah State, Missouri, TBA, TBA, TBA

2021 Arizona State, Boise State, TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA



So if someone dropped their season tickets due to weak home schedules in recent years, I'd go pick them back up.

We do have a schedule that is P5 caliber, but we really need to improve recruiting to endure it.



According to 24/7 sports composite recruiting rankings (which creates a composite ranking from the major recruiting services like Scout, Rivals, espn, etc.) BYU has consistently out recruited only 2 of the current P5 schools over the last 10 years:



Purdue and Wake Forest.



Schools like Washington St., Kansas, Iowa St., Indiana, Duke and Vanderbilt have all recruited at a similar level to BYU. This would be great news for basketball, but not so much for football.

For 5 of those 10 years they were in a G5 league though so it isn't shocking. Recruiting does need to improve though.

Fido wrote:
For 5 of those 10 years they were in a G5 league though so it isn't shocking. Recruiting does need to improve though.

Except our composite ranking seems to be getting worse as an indy not better



2015 64

2014 66

2013 64

2012 72

2011 68

2010 30

2009 51

2008 43

2007 45

2006 64

mormonrasta wrote:

For 5 of those 10 years they were in a G5 league though so it isn't shocking. Recruiting does need to improve though.

Except our composite ranking seems to be getting worse as an indy not better



2015 64

2014 66

2013 64

2012 72

2011 68

2010 30

2009 51

2008 43

2007 45

2006 64

Exactly. Any "hated, weak minded" fool can see that our players, while filled with faith are not skilled enough as David to just say simply go "TRY" and kill more Goliaths in 2016. Oh sure Tom Holmoe can write the checks that the players and coaches can "TRY" to cash, but if 2015 schedule was "built especially for Taysoms and Jamal's Senior year", what was (and is soon to be w yet another P5 team) the "rationale" for 2016? Wait, I know....

"C'mon guys, you can " TRY" an Hail Mary every game and it should work. It worked twice in 2015 and prevented an 0-4 start. What's wrong with you guys? Are you not "TRYING" hard enough? Hey, if nothing else, our delusional fans love the thought that we are TRYING to compete at a P5 level. Just remember boys, you were laying a path for others to walkWho come behind. Never mind, that Tanner Mangum would otherwise probably break all the records if you werent getting chased all over Hades by even more players bigger, more athletic players. Coaches, you need to "TRY" harder to recruit better. Recruits, you need to TRY harder to see that we have so many advantages playing games that you will be more visible with a top 10 SOS, not withstanding a 6-6 record, and that's if our elite 11 QB stays healthy. Players, you need to "TRY" harder to miraculously win more games. If you don't succeed well, even though you have a losing season, don't worry, the fans won't hate you and turn away from you, because they knew you"TRIED." But, If you do win, that is awesome, we are going to for sures get a spot in a P5 conference. I just know it, I feel it in my bones, at least I "TRY" to feel that in my bones. At least I am trying, can't you see that? Now, you go and do the same. You "TRY" harder and maybe, just maybe, not withstanding more of you will experience injuries than normal, against bigger faster athletes, maybe,The P5 Anti-trust Will "TRY" harder to let us in. "TRY PEOPLE, TRY!" TRY HARDER IN 2016. WE CAN PART THE RED SEA OF THE P5 AND LET MY PEOPLE IN.... IF ONLY WE T.........R..........Y, TRY!!!!! INow, go team go!!!!!

Every P5 conference which has a rule about playing P5 competition considers BYU to be a P5 team. So the "haves" of college football more than likely think we play a P5 caliber schedule. I'd say so far so good.



Also, this year still has the potential to be a really good year. I guess we'll see how things pan out.



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There's so little data on independence that it is skewed by our QB troubles over the past five years. If we had a Beck or Hall back there during the time, we'd be ranked higher. It has nothing to do with independence.

Schmoe wrote:
There's so little data on independence that it is skewed by our QB troubles over the past five years. If we had a Beck or Hall back there during the time, we'd be ranked higher. It has nothing to do with independence.

That's true. Plus the non-Anae years at OC. It does skew the stats. This year and next are a chance for BYU to really show if they are making steps forward or just laterally.



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Ok, changed my post because I'm working on being nice...



Injuries happen in football. They happen against P5 teams. They happen against FCS teams (Riley Nelson's broken back against Weber). They happen against G5 teams (USU twice). They happen with contact and without contact. They happen with good trainers. They happen with bad trainers. They happen to the team with the highest SOS, and the lowest.



We lost 13 starters last year due to injuries initially sustained in the USU game. Not any of our P5 opponents...no, no, no. Other major injuries happened against USF.



I highly doubt there is much correlation between strength of schedule and injuries. If that were the case, the SEC teams would be losing 15 players a week, right?



Enjoy the schedule. Sure, it's not likely to bring an undefeated season, but usually only 1 team in the country ends without a loss. Rarely is there a year like 2004 with 4 teams unbeaten at the end.



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