Rose and the post season

Wish I wasn't right but let's face it, he got completely out coached in 3 games in this seasons post season run alone.

They need to send him back to Provo coach class tomorrow with all the BYU fans.

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hawkwing wrote:
Wish I wasn't right but let's face it, he got completely out coached in 3 games in this seasons post season run alone.

What. did that take all of 15 minutes before you busted out the "poor bronco gets beat up so much that you need to even the score?

He is not without fault in this game, but your haste o level the field is astounding. "Completely Outcoached?" In past three games? Nothing like "all or nothing" patterns which reflect your "level of education." Oh, but wait, Rose will Take the criticism with so much more class and maturity that fans will still continue to like Rose more than Bronco. Nice try, Hawk. Your agenda is pretty clear. Good thing you got there first in line.

Sorry cougsrule but my comments have nothing to do with Bronco, I have never mentioned him in my critiques of Rose, because my critiques of Rose are about coaching basketball.



If you can't have an adult conversation about Rose and his coaching ability then please allow the rest of us who can to do so.

How did he get outcoached in the second half? Their bigs are better than ours (which wasn't a surprise), and they actually have a point guard instead of our amazing and super hardworking small forward playing the point position (Getting beat literally every play off the dribble on defense and turning the ball over, passing or otherwise).



Rose didn't tell his guys (mainly KColl), "Now, go out there and make bad passes, and turn the ball over guys! Let's make it close!"



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Rose also didn't tell KC to go get two stupid fouls and become a defensive liability. And while you're at it throw it away a few times. And he didn't tell Haws to miss the front of a one and one or KC to miss both of his free throws. That's on the players. And he didn't tell Anson to sprain his knee and be a non factor.



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Its a pattern for the last five to six months. Go check out the Rose Vs Bronco threads. Your agenda has been to level the field for all that time. Your negative comments about Rose are twice that of your negative comments toward Bronco. And your defensive comments about Bronco are significantly Higher than Rose. Add them up. Or is that not adult enough for you?

Hawk is just filling the void Bib left. I don't fault Hawk for setting Bronco as the gold standard as long as he doesn't mind me nitpicking Bronco (who hasn't done anything on a national level or beaten a Top 5 opponent in half a decade).



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I think any time you lose a 17 point lead, 100% of the momentum, and use up all of your timeouts before the final few plays when you may need to set up a play for a game tying or winning shot, and also give up 6 dunks on the same baseline pass play, that's being out coached.

hawkwing wrote:
I think any time you lose a 17 point lead, 100% of the momentum, and use up all of your timeouts before the final few plays when you may need to set up a play for a game tying or winning shot, and also give up 6 dunks on the same baseline pass play, that's being out coached.

That's called not playing in the WCC....



Tale of two halves. BYU clearly came out comfortable and was hitting everything. Ole miss did the same in the second half and used their much more physical and athletic players to their advantage. I'm not sure BYU could have done much to stop that train (limit turnovers, but as mentioned, that's on the players).

Gunk wrote:
Hawk is just filling the void Bib left. I don't fault Hawk for setting Bronco as the gold standard as long as he doesn't mind me nitpicking Bronco (who hasn't done anything on a national level or beaten a Top 5 opponent in half a decade).



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I am not basing my criticisms on Rose on some weird attempt to credit or defend Bronco. I'm sorry thatwe can't have a conversation about Roses faults without everyone jumping to point out what Bronco does or doesn't do.



Let's leave Bronco out of this entirely and discuss Rose. Bronco won't be here in 2 years anyway, so who cares about what he is or isn't?

Well, let's just keep up this non-sequitor train of thought. If Rose didn't tell a player to do precisely what that player did, then Rose cannot take credit nor be faulted because he didn't instruct them to do exactly that. Sounds good. Pretty sure Rose didn't tell Haws to score 33, or tell Fischer to score our first 11 either, so Rose was a non-factor there as well. Also didn't hear him yelling for Sharp to block that one shot, so no credit for Rose there. I also never heard him tell a single player to dribble the ball, so no dribbling credit for Rose.



So are well all agreed that coaches only get credit for what they tell players to do during the course of a game, and not for how they develop players and their execution in practices? Cuz that seems to be the tack a few of you seem intent to be taking.



Can't wait to use this "logic" in the Fall when certain harpies start piling on their least favorite football coaches.



p.s. BroncoBot and any others who want to just silently downvote this, tell me where I'm missing something or how I'm misrepresenting your arguments. I still can't see how anyone can say that the second half tonight was all on the players, and can't even raise an eyebrow at the guy who is coaching those players.

BoiseBYU wrote:
Rose also didn't tell KC to go get two stupid fouls and become a defensive liability. And while you're at it throw it away a few times. And he didn't tell Haws to miss the front of a one and one or KC to miss both of his free throws. That's on the players. And he didn't tell Anson to sprain his knee and be a non factor.



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So, the way the players play is all on the players, then what exactly is on the coach? Isn't it his job to prepare them to play, to get the reps that they need, to coach them on how to stay out of foul trouble and to change how they're playing when they already have a couple fouls, etc. etc. etc.?

I can almost guarantee you that if the football team is up by 17 at half and then loses everyone is calling for the coaches' heads. The players made mistakes, but who coaches the players? Even on the missed FTs. Did the coaches spend enough time practicing FTs? Did the coaches encourage a strong mentality in the players so that they don't crumble in clutch time?



I am NOT saying that it's all Coach Rose's fault. But it's not as easy as pointing the finger at just the players or just the coaches.

hawkwing wrote:
I think any time you lose a 17 point lead, 100% of the momentum, and use up all of your timeouts before the final few plays when you may need to set up a play for a game tying or winning shot, and also give up 6 dunks on the same baseline pass play, that's being out coached.

I'm asking you honestly here: you don't think in one of those timeouts he talked to his players about that play?



Its simple, Hawk. Rose doesn't have the personel to stop that from happening. He is playing a small forward with a bum knee against QUICK point guards. Then they pentrate and get the bigs to commit, once they do its a dunk from the baselines.



If you want to call it "being outcoached" to play a forward at the guard position then that's your prerogative. It has been happening all year though, not just the second half Of this game. Most of the WCC teams don't have the talent at point or big to do what Ole Miss did. They did, recognized it, and did it. Credit to them.



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Maybe people think I'm not giving Rose his due. Let me be clear, Rose is the beat basketball coach BYU has ever had. That doesn't make him the best basketball coach ever though, and I think its fair to talk about his weaknesses.

hawkwing wrote:

Hawk is just filling the void Bib left. I don't fault Hawk for setting Bronco as the gold standard as long as he doesn't mind me nitpicking Bronco (who hasn't done anything on a national level or beaten a Top 5 opponent in half a decade).



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I am not basing my criticisms on Rose on some weird attempt to credit or defend Bronco. I'm sorry thatwe can't have a conversation about Roses faults without everyone jumping to point out what Bronco does or doesn't do.



Let's leave Bronco out of this entirely and discuss Rose. Bronco won't be here in 2 years anyway, so who cares about what he is or isn't?

Then let's quibble about the outlandish exageration of "completely" Outcoached in the last three games. And since I don't think you are Likely to defend your opinion, then let's ask why you are prone to do use gross exagerations against Rose , but not Bronco.

Brayden Green wrote:

I think any time you lose a 17 point lead, 100% of the momentum, and use up all of your timeouts before the final few plays when you may need to set up a play for a game tying or winning shot, and also give up 6 dunks on the same baseline pass play, that's being out coached.

I'm asking you honestly here: you don't think in one of those timeouts he talked to his players about that play?

The team never adjusted to it nor changed the way they countered it, so either he didn't or he didn't do it effectively.

Either this team is not as good as Ole Miss, and so much worse, in fact, that we're drop-a-17-point-halftime-lead and allow-over-60-points-in-one-half worse, or we got outcoached.