In spite of the warts...

This group of young men just gave us the most important win in recent BYU history



We desperately needed to prove that it wasn't Gonzaga and everyone else



We needed to steal some of the thunder that the U took back this year



We needed a highlight game for the NCAA selection committee, the country, and Frank Jackson (yes he's that important a recruit)



We are still a broken team but we won on effort... and we saw the future



Tyler was off and pressing (you could tell he was nervous) yet the other guys picked us up



Kyle just won himself the WCC POY... Wiltjer didn't show up (thanks to our D) Tyler looked human... but KC never shied away from the challenge.



Bartley will be a beast by the time he's a senior... he can guard 3-4 positions, he is never afraid and when he learns his limitations, he's going to be special.. he's got the IT factor.. and manages to do special things when he needs to.. (I grew up in kansas city and while Bo Jackson was never more than an average major leaguer he knew how to shine when the lights were the brightest... Bartley has some of that in him)



Skyler Halford put all doubters to bed... in 10 years from now, we'll remember we won at Gonzaga and we'll remember how clutch Halford was. Our current win streak is on the back of Halford... what a way to finish your career!!



Corbin Kaufusi is becoming a top notch defender... with a year under his belt and backside help from Austin/Davis/Aytes/Nielsen the paint is going to be ours... add Collinsworth and Bartley to the mix and we might end up a top 25 rebounding team next year



This is the team.. broken, battered, not perfect... yet they're the team that did it..



Now for those that questioned Dave Rose or called for his head.........

Right now is the best time to play your best basketball! This team is dangerous and can beat anybody when they play the way that they did last night. How clutch is Andrus? He comes in cold for like 10 seconds and gets two boards and two very clutch free throws!

Bo Jackson was an "average" major leaguer? Didn't he make an all-star game?

SpiffCoug wrote:
Bo Jackson was an "average" major leaguer? Didn't he make an all-star game?

That's my town man... he was talented (a world class athlete with some baseball talent) but produced very average numbers though capable of superstar efforts .. he always seemed to dial it up when the lights were on, which is why I think people have the idea that he was a great baseball player. (he was capable of being great but I've seen him strike out 10 times in a homestand too) The one year he went to the allstar game, he led the league in strikeouts... but he was also the MVP of the allstargame... he knew how to bring it on the biggest stage and in the biggest moments



http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksbo01.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



quite average... want me to list all the average baseball players that made an all star game? keep in mind every team got a representative and the Royals have been the worst team in baseball the last 25 years, excluding last season (which of course I wasn't there for)

let's see... who was it giving Halford and Kaufusi love throughout the year?



Hmmm... :D As their minutes went up, their production went up and they played big time for us.



Can you imagine a Junior Kaufusi and a sophomore Mika? Forget about it...



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Brayden Green wrote:
let's see... who was it giving Halford and Kaufusi love throughout the year?



Hmmm... :D As their minutes went up, their production went up and they played big time for us.



Can you imagine a Junior Kaufusi and a sophomore Mika? Forget about it...



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I've been drooling about the possibilities of that for the last half of the season. Hopefully Andrus and Nielson improve as well.

Brayden Green wrote:
let's see... who was it giving Halford and Kaufusi love throughout the year?



Hmmm... :D As their minutes went up, their production went up and they played big time for us.



Can you imagine a Junior Kaufusi and a sophomore Mika? Forget about it...



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Halford has seized the moment. Good for him. As has Kaufusi. That said, neither of them were as good at the beginning of the season as they are now, especially Kaufusi.



Winder's injury has hampered him a bit, giving Halford more minutes.



The increase in Sharp and Bartley's minutes added better defense and rebounding, which Nixon and Toolson weren't able to provide.



Defense and rebounding have been the keys for us in the last month.

craigoscarson wrote:
This group of young men just gave us the most important win in recent BYU history



We desperately needed to prove that it wasn't Gonzaga and everyone else



We needed to steal some of the thunder that the U took back this year



We needed a highlight game for the NCAA selection committee, the country, and Frank Jackson (yes he's that important a recruit)



We are still a broken team but we won on effort... and we saw the future



Tyler was off and pressing (you could tell he was nervous) yet the other guys picked us up



Kyle just won himself the WCC POY... Wiltjer didn't show up (thanks to our D) Tyler looked human... but KC never shied away from the challenge.



Bartley will be a beast by the time he's a senior... he can guard 3-4 positions, he is never afraid and when he learns his limitations, he's going to be special.. he's got the IT factor.. and manages to do special things when he needs to.. (I grew up in kansas city and while Bo Jackson was never more than an average major leaguer he knew how to shine when the lights were the brightest... Bartley has some of that in him)



Skyler Halford put all doubters to bed... in 10 years from now, we'll remember we won at Gonzaga and we'll remember how clutch Halford was. Our current win streak is on the back of Halford... what a way to finish your career!!



Corbin Kaufusi is becoming a top notch defender... with a year under his belt and backside help from Austin/Davis/Aytes/Nielsen the paint is going to be ours... add Collinsworth and Bartley to the mix and we might end up a top 25 rebounding team next year



This is the team.. broken, battered, not perfect... yet they're the team that did it..



Now for those that questioned Dave Rose or called for his head.........

I agree with everything. I've wanted Bartley to get more time since last year and he is finally earning it. He is going to be really good when all is said and done. KC is NBA caliber and will be making tons of money there in a couple of years. Our all time leading scorer will be playing in Europe next year.

I'm not sure KC is nba ready yet without a reliable jumpshot... he won't play as a 1 or 2 in the nba. He'll go European league even without it for a steady long time, but he needs to tighten that 15 feet out range %



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Brayden Green wrote:
I'm not sure KC is nba ready yet without a reliable jumpshot... he won't play as a 1 or 2 in the nba. He'll go European league even without it for a steady long time, but he needs to tighten that 15 feet out range %



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Jason Kidd was a terrible shooter coming into the league



Tyreke Evans is a terrible shooter (compares pretty favorably to KC actually, except KC isn't a black hole when he has the ball)



Ricky Rubio is a terrible shooter (one of the worst)



Those three guys have in common is that they're actually phenomenal passers AND rebounders (yes rubio is a good rebounder)



If (big if) KC can develop a jumpshot though... I think he could be the next Manu Ginobili



KC is a brilliant passer and solid defender with the height/strength to defend shooting guards in the NBA and enough ball skills to become a Ginobili kind of ball handler.

As a lifelong Spurs fan, I don't see the Ginobili comparison you are getting at. Everyone's opinion is valid, and yours is. Mine is that I think that KC is much more Kawhii Leonard than Ginobili. KC has nowhere the handles, speed, defense, that young Manu had or passing, handles and shooting that old Manu has. I bet the Spurs could teach KC the bruce bowen/Matt Bonner/(now)Kawhii Lenoard pocket three. I'd love for the spurs to draft KC late in the first or early in the second if he goes this year. I think he needs to stay though.



The thing about Kid and Rubio is they are great ballhandlers and elite passers. KC is an average to good ballhandler, and an average to good passer. When you connect that with a missing jumpshot it isn't terribly exciting for the NBA. KC isn't going to be getting all those offensive rebounds and putbacks against the majority of shooting guards and/or forwards, and he'll get absolutely eaten up on the offensive and defensive end playing quick point guards like Parker, Lawson, Westbrook, Thomas, the list goes on and on.



Young Manu (Breakneck speed)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMp_pNU1PeM



Passing Manu (language in song):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XKEBgtngTo



Passing again (language again)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtSFeGeZxU

Brayden Green wrote:
As a lifelong Spurs fan, I don't see the Ginobili comparison you are getting at.

I have to agree. The only time I've seen KC in what looks to be unbearable pain is when he actually blew out his knee. He has a long way to go to before he is in Ginobili's league.

Stirfry wrote:

As a lifelong Spurs fan, I don't see the Ginobili comparison you are getting at.

I have to agree. The only time I've seen KC in what looks to be unbearable pain is when he actually blew out his knee. He has a long way to go to before he is in Ginobili's league.

Is this a veiled attempt at a joke? Most people don't know, or are too young to remember that his first 5 years in the league he was one of the most athletic and dominant guards in the NBA. Watch the first video. His super aggressive style of play was constantly getting him injured. If you are referring to "flopping" might I remind you that Stockton and Malone were flopping while Ginobili was still in diapers, (back when they were punching people in the nuts setting screens, throwing wild elbows, and participating in WWF events).



PS, I'm also a Jazz fan being from Utah, so I don't want to get into a Jazz v Spurs debate. I just like the idea of Jazz fans going after the Spurs for flopping and being dirty... How do you think the Jazz beat the Spurs so often during the Stockton/Malone era? By playing squeaky clean? Please...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN2ffgG9ANM

Brayden Green wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:
As a lifelong Spurs fan, I don't see the Ginobili comparison you are getting at.

I have to agree. The only time I've seen KC in what looks to be unbearable pain is when he actually blew out his knee. He has a long way to go to before he is in Ginobili's league.

Is this a veiled attempt at a joke? Most people don't know, or are too young to remember that his first 5 years in the league he was one of the most athletic and dominant guards in the NBA. Watch the first video. His super aggressive style of play was constantly getting him injured. If you are referring to "flopping" might I remind you that Stockton and Malone were flopping while Ginobili was still in diapers, (back when they were punching people in the nuts setting screens, throwing wild elbows, and participating in WWF events).



PS, I'm also a Jazz fan being from Utah, so I don't want to get into a Jazz v Spurs debate. I just like the idea of Jazz fans going after the Spurs for flopping and being dirty... How do you think the Jazz beat the Spurs so often during the Stockton/Malone era? By playing squeaky clean? Please...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN2ffgG9ANM

I think that was the only paper view I've ever paid for and it was split with my priest quorum and we watched it at our YM's leader at his house. Pretty sure it might have been on a Sunday too :skeptic:



I'm certainly not proclaiming that Jazz didn't/don't play dirty or that Ginobli doesn't play hard. He just does the look of pain like someone just said the meanest thing ever to him much to often after getting fouled or flopping. It's likely due to being from a soccer first country or due to me being from a soccer floppers a wussies country that sees soccer first citizens through red, white, and blue goggles. He's the type of player that his fans love and other fans hate. Really good and seems really whinny.

Good for you on the PPV. It's part of the game. It always has been, at least in the last 50 years, and most likely always will from here on out. Every team does it, and almost every player does as well. Karl definitely wanted the foul. Karl even kicked his leg out 4 feet out in front of him on a jumper to get the foul, and Stockton flopped a ton. Soccer has some problems for me, that's for sure. The Spurs still play the best version of basketball at the pro level, and that is a fact.



Back to Kyle... I think he is much more like Leonard, and that excites me, because I think that the Spurs are really taking a look and Kyle (though I have no insider info to back that up).



I think like Kawhi, Kyle needs to work hard on dribbling and get an outside shot, if at least from one spot (that came after he got drafted to the Spurs, but Kyle should get it before). He already has the inside game and rebounding. Needs to work on defense, dribbling, and wing play. I love KC and hope he leaves when he is ready. There is intrigue for him and the NBA, but I don't see him being ready quite yet.

Brayden Green wrote:
As a lifelong Spurs fan, I don't see the Ginobili comparison you are getting at. Everyone's opinion is valid, and yours is. Mine is that I think that KC is much more Kawhii Leonard than Ginobili. KC has nowhere the handles, speed, defense, that young Manu had or passing, handles and shooting that old Manu has. I bet the Spurs could teach KC the bruce bowen/Matt Bonner/(now)Kawhii Lenoard pocket three. I'd love for the spurs to draft KC late in the first or early in the second if he goes this year. I think he needs to stay though.



The thing about Kid and Rubio is they are great ballhandlers and elite passers. KC is an average to good ballhandler, and an average to good passer. When you connect that with a missing jumpshot it isn't terribly exciting for the NBA. KC isn't going to be getting all those offensive rebounds and putbacks against the majority of shooting guards and/or forwards, and he'll get absolutely eaten up on the offensive and defensive end playing quick point guards like Parker, Lawson, Westbrook, Thomas, the list goes on and on.



Young Manu (Breakneck speed)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMp_pNU1PeM



Passing Manu (language in song):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XKEBgtngTo



Passing again (language again)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtSFeGeZxU

When NBA scouts starting comparing him to Manu next May will you then believe me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcFSoXUsFzg



You missed a video.



I like Manu, but it's not like he was a sure fire star coming in.



Round: 2 / Pick: 57th overall

Selected by the San Antonio Spurs

craigoscarson wrote:

I like Manu, but it's not like he was a sure fire star coming in.



Round: 2 / Pick: 57th overall

Selected by the San Antonio Spurs

Sorry, but the Spurs have a deep history of draft and stash, starting (in my lifetime) with David Robinson. Had the Spurs not selected him (Ginobili) 3 years prior, and instead he was drafted after 3 years of overseas MVPs and leading Argentina to a gold medal, he would have been a lottery pick for sure, probably top 5 even for the worldwide talent deafness that is the rest of the teams in the NBA. I mean, it's no surprise that the Spurs have the record as the all-time winningest franchise in NBA history, and last year had 13 foreign born players on their roster.



Re: Flopping. Name an NBA player in recent video history, then google that player + flop. Everyone has done it. Period. (Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Jordan, Bryant, Bird, Magic, Ainge).



Everyone. (BTW, the video sucks. Pretty much everything about it.)



Re: Comparisons to Ginobili. Even IF scouts compare him to Ginobili (I mean, you were a scout, so I know you are coming from experience here) it's a comparison. Like I said, he is a worse defending Kawhii Leonard model, with probably better passing and dribbling ability, and without monstrously freaky huge hands. ;) A comparison to Leonard isn't chump change... he is becoming quite the good little player over in San Antonio.

I admit I still don't see it for KC in the NBA. I see him using his size and strength against college guys. In the NBA I doubt he will be overpowering. Maybe next year he'll come in with a much improved jumper.



I am convinced of his competitive spirit and work ethic. So maybe he can improve his skills enough.

I like KC. I think the potential is there for an NBA career.



He's got to improve his shooting and skill set. He's a tremendous athlete but his success right now as a result of the mismatches he creates and is able to take advantage of. Good on him for recognizing his strengths. But, he's not going to be able to post up guards in the NBA.



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