Why oh why?

Just wondering why BYU is jacking up threes like they are going out of style. I realize they just had a let down against Pepperdine, but everyone knows that BYU's game revolves around the 3, and that BYU can be very efficient with the 3. I'd love to see the ball get into the paint on every possession this game. If the bigs get the ball take 1-2 dribbles and kick it out, that's fine with me. But get those dudes some meaningful touches against the LMUs of the world.

BroncoBot wrote:
Just wondering why BYU is jacking up threes like they are going out of style. I realize they just had a let down against Pepperdine, but everyone knows that BYU's game revolves around the 3, and that BYU can be very efficient with the 3. I'd love to see the ball get into the paint on every possession this game. If the bigs get the ball take 1-2 dribbles and kick it out, that's fine with me. But get those dudes some meaningful touches against the LMUs of the world.

Probably because of how well BYU started the game shooting. They started something like 6 of 8 and finished 13 of 28.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Just wondering why BYU is jacking up threes like they are going out of style. I realize they just had a let down against Pepperdine, but everyone knows that BYU's game revolves around the 3, and that BYU can be very efficient with the 3. I'd love to see the ball get into the paint on every possession this game. If the bigs get the ball take 1-2 dribbles and kick it out, that's fine with me. But get those dudes some meaningful touches against the LMUs of the world.

Probably because of how well BYU started the game shooting. They started something like 6 of 8 and finished 13 of 28.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. BYU's bigs weren't touching the ball... Didn't touch the ball nearly all game.

BroncoBot wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:
Just wondering why BYU is jacking up threes like they are going out of style. I realize they just had a let down against Pepperdine, but everyone knows that BYU's game revolves around the 3, and that BYU can be very efficient with the 3. I'd love to see the ball get into the paint on every possession this game. If the bigs get the ball take 1-2 dribbles and kick it out, that's fine with me. But get those dudes some meaningful touches against the LMUs of the world.

Probably because of how well BYU started the game shooting. They started something like 6 of 8 and finished 13 of 28.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. BYU's bigs weren't touching the ball... Didn't touch the ball nearly all game.

That's because the bigs we have available aren't good. Kaufusi missed how many shots from 2 ft away. I actually think LMU's bigs were better than Kaufusi and Worthington.

SpiffCoug wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:

Just wondering why BYU is jacking up threes like they are going out of style. I realize they just had a let down against Pepperdine, but everyone knows that BYU's game revolves around the 3, and that BYU can be very efficient with the 3. I'd love to see the ball get into the paint on every possession this game. If the bigs get the ball take 1-2 dribbles and kick it out, that's fine with me. But get those dudes some meaningful touches against the LMUs of the world.

Probably because of how well BYU started the game shooting. They started something like 6 of 8 and finished 13 of 28.

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. BYU's bigs weren't touching the ball... Didn't touch the ball nearly all game.

That's because the bigs we have available aren't good. Kaufusi missed how many shots from 2 ft away. I actually think LMU's bigs were better than Kaufusi and Worthington.

And they won't become much better practicing against themselves and getting 0 real touches against competition.



BYU's bigs aren't good enough to get 10 decent touches against teams who average an egregious 245 (pepperdine = 220, LMU 270)? Might as well play 5 guards against gonzaga next time.

Then perhaps the three bigs who did play tonight actually produce and warrant more touches?



That's one thing Rose has always done. He'll play guys and if they don't produce - even in limited minutes and opportunities - they eventually fall out of the rotation.



Kaufusi, Neilsen and Worthington played a combined 40 minutes. They missed the three shots they took (all by CK, all right at the rim). They missed the two FTs they took (both by CK). They grabbed all of six rebounds (3 off, 3 def). They had one assist and five turnovers and committed eight fouls.



They need to produce. They're not good rebounders either. They just not very good right now. And they need to take better advantage of the opportunities of the limited chances they are getting.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Then perhaps the three bigs who did play tonight actually produce and warrant more touches?

It would be nice to be blowing out the pepperdines and LMUs of the world out so much that BYU could get 2 bigs in the game and get them some REAL experience.

BroncoBot wrote:

Then perhaps the three bigs who did play tonight actually produce and warrant more touches?

It would be nice to be blowing out the pepperdines and LMUs of the world out so much that BYU could get 2 bigs in the game and get them some REAL experience.

Yes, it would.

We didn't have a single point tonight scored by a forward or center... this team is very broken... we have a couple exceptional players carrying a very disjointed pool of talent.

I would like to see the PT go to the players who will develop the most and will be depended on in the tourney.



When TH was a freshman he could had helped us beat Florida but he wasn't trusted to take a lot of shots. Jimmer was putting it up even though he had strained his calf.



I think I remember that game right.

Wasn't just a few weeks ago, Craig, that you were talking about how our bigs are so much better this year and all the depth we have in the front court...I jest.



Honestly, I don't know why our bigs even bother to post up. The ball isn't going there. At one point in the game tonight I watched Kaufusi make multiple trips down the floor, fight like a beast to seal his man off and post up only to watch the ball sail over his head across the court to a half way open guard. Our bigs can't score for two reasons: 1) they are never given the opportunity to score; and, 2) they stink at it.



Hard to get better at reason 2 if reason 1 never happens. When BYU is up 15 off of 3s, the ball needs to start going inside for the sole reason to keep the defense honest. As it stands now, opponents will see if BYU is on, adjust the defense to stay on top of the guards and forget about the middle. Don't blame them. Opponents don't even fall for when we fake the pass to the big posting up, they know it's not going there.



I know our guys suck at back to the basket moves. So run some screens, give 'n goes and back doors. There is more than one way to have an inside presence. This is my biggest gripe with Rose. While I credit him coming up with a scheme that gets the most out of 6' 5" guards and small forwards, he has no sense for an inside game.



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Gunk wrote:
Wasn't just a few weeks ago, Craig, that you were talking about how our bigs are so much better this year and all the depth we have in the front court...I jest.



Honestly, I don't know why our bigs even bother to post up. The ball isn't going there. At one point in the game tonight I watched Kaufusi make multiple trips down the floor, fight like a beast to seal his man off and post up only to watch the ball sail over his head across the court to a half way open guard. Our bigs can't score for two reasons: 1) they are never given the opportunity to score; and, 2) they stink at it.



Hard to get better at reason 2 if reason 1 never happens. When BYU is up 15 off of 3s, the ball needs to start going inside for the sole reason to keep the defense honest. As it stands now, opponents will see if BYU is on, adjust the defense to stay on top of the guards and forget about the middle. Don't blame them. Opponents don't even fall for when we fake the pass to the big posting up, they know it's not going there.



I know our guys suck at back to the basket moves. So run some screens, give 'n goes and back doors. There is more than one way to have an inside presence. This is my biggest gripe with Rose. While I credit him coming up with a scheme that gets the most out of 6' 5" guards and small forwards, he has no sense for an inside game.



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Our depth is better than last year.... when healthy....



Our defense in the post is much better than last year.... when healthy...



Our ability to score in the post... nonexistant

At some point Kaufusi has to make an uncontested basket from within 2 feet. He does some other things well but he has absolutely zero offensive ability.

Hawk and Craigoscarson, I totally agree with you both. Our centers and forwards this year stink to high heaven. But it would be nice to just absolutely blow a team like LMU out of the water AT HOME in order to give Kaufusi and Worthington some meaningful touches to get used to the game played live.



I'm not advocating and inside out game or anything close to it. Maybe, blowing a team out is not possible when your offense is hellbent on taking 3s? Usually you're going to miss a lot of those, especially when a defense knows that's the plan. It's going to be hard to get those long offensive rebounds when you're playing 4 guards.



It is certainly no small issue to not have a serviceable center/power forward who can shrink that defense a little bit. But we aren't doing our bigs any favors by never getting them the ball. It HAS to become part of the offense, just like running "up the middle" can never completely go away in football, even if your offense is much more efficient throwing the ball.

BroncoBot wrote:
Hawk and Craigoscarson, I totally agree with you both. Our centers and forwards this year stink to high heaven. But it would be nice to just absolutely blow a team like LMU out of the water AT HOME in order to give Kaufusi and Worthington some meaningful touches to get used to the game played live.



I'm not advocating and inside out game or anything close to it. Maybe, blowing a team out is not possible when your offense is hellbent on taking 3s? Usually you're going to miss a lot of those, especially when a defense knows that's the plan. It's going to be hard to get those long offensive rebounds when you're playing 4 guards.



It is certainly no small issue to not have a serviceable center/power forward who can shrink that defense a little bit. But we aren't doing our bigs any favors by never getting them the ball. It HAS to become part of the offense, just like running "up the middle" can never completely go away in football, even if your offense is much more efficient throwing the ball.

I am not saying we don't need some more scoring around the rim, but Almost every good NBA team is taking more and more 3 pt shots. With the college line being so close why not take a ton. Now we need to work on creating quality 3 point looks. But if we had open looks I would take every shot from 3.

Qman wrote:

Hawk and Craigoscarson, I totally agree with you both. Our centers and forwards this year stink to high heaven. But it would be nice to just absolutely blow a team like LMU out of the water AT HOME in order to give Kaufusi and Worthington some meaningful touches to get used to the game played live.



I'm not advocating and inside out game or anything close to it. Maybe, blowing a team out is not possible when your offense is hellbent on taking 3s? Usually you're going to miss a lot of those, especially when a defense knows that's the plan. It's going to be hard to get those long offensive rebounds when you're playing 4 guards.



It is certainly no small issue to not have a serviceable center/power forward who can shrink that defense a little bit. But we aren't doing our bigs any favors by never getting them the ball. It HAS to become part of the offense, just like running "up the middle" can never completely go away in football, even if your offense is much more efficient throwing the ball.

I am not saying we don't need some more scoring around the rim, but Almost every good NBA team is taking more and more 3 pt shots. With the college line being so close why not take a ton. Now we need to work on creating quality 3 point looks. But if we had open looks I would take every shot from 3.

see my post from above:

"It is certainly no small issue to not have a serviceable center/power forward who can shrink that defense a little bit. But we aren't doing our bigs any favors by never getting them the ball. It HAS to become part of the offense, just like running "up the middle" can never completely go away in football, even if your offense is much more efficient throwing the ball."



I'm all for taking open threes, but when that is THE offense, you're going to have a hard time finding "open" threes when the defense can simply camp on the perimeter. Also, when the 3 is not dropping which will happen from time to time, if you don't have any sort of inside game you are dead in the water. This is what separates the BYUs and the Gonzagas of the world. Balance would be nice.

The problem really is that if you let Kaufusi take 10 shots a game for meaningful practice, he will likely miss all 10 of them, meaning you've just lost 10 possessions in a game that may come down to capitalizing on one more possession than your opponent.

hawkwing wrote:
The problem really is that if you let Kaufusi take 10 shots a game for meaningful practice, he will likely miss all 10 of them, meaning you've just lost 10 possessions in a game that may come down to capitalizing on one more possession than your opponent.

Post of the thread!

hawkwing wrote:
The problem really is that if you let Kaufusi take 10 shots a game for meaningful practice, he will likely miss all 10 of them, meaning you've just lost 10 possessions in a game that may come down to capitalizing on one more possession than your opponent.

Kaufusi usually gets fouled going up so that more than likely wouldn't be the case. Even if he doesn't make his free throws there is value in that foul. Can't tell me you wouldn't love to get Gonzaga's bigs in foul trouble. That won't happen with us launching 3s.



The 10 touches don't have to come in a row either. That would be dumb, kinda like running it up the middle 10 times in a row. The touches can come when we a have 10 point lead.



Fact of the matter is if Rose wants the bigs to play on par with the guards, the bigs need as many touches as they can reasonably get.



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Gunk wrote:

The 10 touches don't have to come in a row either. That would be dumb, kinda like running it up the middle 10 times in a row.

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