Player Ratings Through San Francisco

Here are the player ratings through the San Francisco game:


BYU PER 2015-01-05.PNG

Collinsworth has just been amazing and consistent. His 23.19 is close to Jimmer's 23.56. I really like how we've just blown out the last two high school teams that we've played. It has really annoyed me the past few seasons how we've let some of these little WCC teams hang around and even beat us. In my mind, with the exception of Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and one other hot team, we should be blowing out everybody from the WCC. Last season we had 1 20 point and 1 30 point conference wins. We've now had 2 30+ wins in a row and both away games. I like it. Don't play down to their level!!



Sagarin has us at #33 with the #39 SOS. 0-2 vs top 25 and 1-3 vs top 50. WCC is the #8 conference (PAC-12 is #6 and MWC is #11).



Oh and byucougars.com shows the Pepperdine game being broadcast on ESPNU and CougarCorner is showing BYUtv.

KC is in full on beast mode.

byufan4ever wrote:
I really like how we've just blown out the last two high school teams that we've played. It has really annoyed me the past few seasons how we've let some of these little WCC teams hang around and even beat us. In my mind, with the exception of Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and one other hot team, we should be blowing out everybody from the WCC.

I really don't get this mindset, and actually, I'm quite bothered by it. I'm guessing that you've actually never been to any of these so-called "high schools." These "high schools" produce very important people, both in and out of sports. My guess is that there are actually BYU students who would not be accepted in some of these “high schools.” These schools are actually very good institutions and should be treated with respect, not disdain. Yes they have a smallish gym, and a smaller student body, but so what? Let's not be jerks by basing our opinion on a good school solely on size, and especially size of gym. It’s kind of like saying that a McDonalds Double Quarter pounder is better than an IN-n-Out double double, because it’s bigger, and more people eat it.

And PS I really do love the player rankings. Thanks for doing this, it is fun to watch the trends

I fully support ABYUFAN!!!!

ABYUFAN wrote:

I really like how we've just blown out the last two high school teams that we've played. It has really annoyed me the past few seasons how we've let some of these little WCC teams hang around and even beat us. In my mind, with the exception of Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and one other hot team, we should be blowing out everybody from the WCC.

I really don't get this mindset, and actually, I'm quite bothered by it. I'm guessing that you've actually never been to any of these so-called "high schools." These "high schools" produce very important people, both in and out of sports. My guess is that there are actually BYU students who would not be accepted in some of these “high schools.” These schools are actually very good institutions and should be treated with respect, not disdain. Yes they have a smallish gym, and a smaller student body, but so what? Let's not be jerks by basing our opinion on a good school solely on size, and especially size of gym. It’s kind of like saying that a McDonalds Double Quarter pounder is better than an IN-n-Out double double, because it’s bigger, and more people eat it.

My intent was not to be a jerk. But saying that they have a smallish gym is being very generous. At Santa Clara their smallish gym was "at least" 50% BYU fans (probably closer to 60%+). That doesn't show much of a fan base when you can't fill your smallish gym and the away team has a stronger presence. I don't care about their academics, I'm talking about basketball. Except for the top 3 teams (excluding BYU) there are ZERO conference teams that should be challenging us year in and year out. I believe a lot of BYU fans will agree that we've played down to the level of our conference opponents. I want to see us crush teams that are 100+ below us in rankings like any other decent team would do.



Sagarin WCC Rankings:

5 Gonzaga

33 BYU

67 St. Mary's

108 Portland

112 San Diego

143 Pepperdine

145 San Francisco

189 Santa Clara

230 Pacific

292 Loyola Marymount



I think that at BYU's 33 ranking we should be "blowing out" (win by 20+) teams that are ranked 33+100 (133) or worse. Is that asking too much? That's 5 teams that should just be no match for us under any circumstance. Whether they have a smallish or largish gym or awesome academic record, we should be able to handle the bottom 5 teams with one eye, leg, and arm (exaggeration here).



Take out my "high school" phrase and the rest of my statement is still valid:



I really like how we've just blown out the last two teams that we've played. It has really annoyed me the past few seasons how we've let some of these little ("little" is still a valid term that shouldn't categorize me as a jerk) WCC teams hang around and even beat us. In my mind, with the exception of Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and one other hot team, we should be blowing out everybody from the WCC

If you would not say it to the face of their fans, don't say it on a board that they might come to that will remain forever.



I cringe when I read things said that people would never say to another person. It might be just me but we can be classier.

ABYUFAN wrote:
And PS I really do love the player rankings. Thanks for doing this, it is fun to watch the trends

I didn't know whether to quote this or your first post. I do not agree with belittling opponents. It smacks too much of Whittingham's onside kick. We should fight like Capt. Moroni when we play our conference opponents but not run them down. It is one positive about not playing the Utes, we don't have to see as much vitriol. The WCC took us in when others turned from us. I do, however, much appreciate byufan4ever posting these great ratings. I give him positive ratings for this.

byufan4ever wrote:

byufan4ever wrote:
I really like how we've just blown out the last two high school teams that we've played. It has really annoyed me the past few seasons how we've let some of these little WCC teams hang around and even beat us. In my mind, with the exception of Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and one other hot team, we should be blowing out everybody from the WCC.

I really don't get this mindset, and actually, I'm quite bothered by it. I'm guessing that you've actually never been to any of these so-called "high schools." These "high schools" produce very important people, both in and out of sports. My guess is that there are actually BYU students who would not be accepted in some of these “high schools.” These schools are actually very good institutions and should be treated with respect, not disdain. Yes they have a smallish gym, and a smaller student body, but so what? Let's not be jerks by basing our opinion on a good school solely on size, and especially size of gym. It’s kind of like saying that a McDonalds Double Quarter pounder is better than an IN-n-Out double double, because it’s bigger, and more people eat it.

My intent was not to be a jerk. But saying that they have a smallish gym is being very generous. At Santa Clara their smallish gym was "at least" 50% BYU fans (probably closer to 60%+). That doesn't show much of a fan base when you can't fill your smallish gym and the away team has a stronger presence. I don't care about their academics, I'm talking about basketball. Except for the top 3 teams (excluding BYU) there are ZERO conference teams that should be challenging us year in and year out. I believe a lot of BYU fans will agree that we've played down to the level of our conference opponents. I want to see us crush teams that are 100+ below us in rankings like any other decent team would do.



Sagarin WCC Rankings:

5 Gonzaga

33 BYU

67 St. Mary's

108 Portland

112 San Diego

143 Pepperdine

145 San Francisco

189 Santa Clara

230 Pacific

292 Loyola Marymount



I think that at BYU's 33 ranking we should be "blowing out" (win by 20+) teams that are ranked 33+100 (133) or worse. Is that asking too much? That's 5 teams that should just be no match for us under any circumstance. Whether they have a smallish or largish gym or awesome academic record, we should be able to handle the bottom 5 teams with one eye, leg, and arm (exaggeration here).



Take out my "high school" phrase and the rest of my statement is still valid:



I really like how we've just blown out the last two teams that we've played. It has really annoyed me the past few seasons how we've let some of these little ("little" is still a valid term that shouldn't categorize me as a jerk) WCC teams hang around and even beat us. In my mind, with the exception of Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and one other hot team, we should be blowing out everybody from the WCC

We probably agree on more than we disagree on, and I'm good with that. Playing down to our competition is something to be concerned about.



I admit that I used the term "smallish" kind of tongue in cheek. I've been to both Pacific and Santa Clara to watch games, and have had fun at both locations, I've met great fans at both, and felt it important to be a classy BYU fan not preoccupied on gym size, (or, in other words, not act like an entitled, spoiled bratty Ute fan.) Even though the gyms are small, they are very nice facilities, and it is even more fun when we outnumber their fans. As a matter of fact, because we outnumber their fans it is important to be respectful, they already have enough reason to hate us, there’s no need to pour gasoline on the fire.

One of the schools was talking about raising money to improve their facility. Was it San Francisco? It started with a $5M donation. Were they going to expand or just improve it? I really wasn't listening during half time.

It was USF and there was talk of remodeling and building a practice facility.

I like the WCC facilities that I've been to so far. USF definitely needs an upgrade. Santa Clara's gym is really nice. San Diego is nice. Seems like the gyms are small, but nice. If you look at the spectrum of gym sizes in the NCAA, the WCC gyms are not the smallest and they're in pretty good company.



http://Www.bbstate.com/info/teams-arena



BYU is #4 in arena size. Only Pepperdine is embarrassingly small at 1,500. St Mary's has no excuse for their small gym size, 3,500. They have been a solid program for years and easily selling that place out. I don't know why they haven't improved their facilities. Besides those two, the WCC is ok.

I think I remember reading on SMC's forum about the school trying to raise funds to upgrade the gym.



It's mostly a funding issue, I think. BUY cranks out a lot of grads, which gives us more access alumni funds.



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Gunk wrote:
I think I remember reading on SMC's forum about the school trying to raise funds to upgrade the gym.



It's mostly a funding issue, I think. BUY cranks out a lot of grads, which gives us more access alumni funds.



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Yea, we do have to remember that most WCC schools have pretty small enrollments. Overall, I like our association with the WCC.

I have not been to any of the WCC basketball arenas (except for BYU of course) so I can't comment on how nice they are but I used the link provided by BYULV to compare the WCC to the MWC, PAC-12, and Big-12.


Stadium Capacity.PNG

I'm not saying the WCC has horrible fans. I too like the idea of being part of a private Christian school conference. But you cannot honestly say that the arena capacity is anywhere close to that of other conferences. The next biggest WCC arena would be at the bottom of the PAC-12 and Big-12 and 3rd smallest in the MWC.



My point is not to belittle the WCC, but the arenas make it feel like a small-time conference. During one of the games I was watching last night (Ohio St.-Minnesota & Iowa St. - Oklahoma St.) one of the commenters said something about the "Power 7" conferences. I had never heard of that. I think everyone has heard of the Power 5 in college football. If there is a Power 7 in basketball, would the WCC be included? According to Sagarin, it is currently the 8th best conference (better than the MWC).

Problem with the WCC schools expanding their gyms is filling them. Other than Gonzaga and SMC, there aren't a lot of fans filling even their small gyms.



While it was over Christmas break, USF (4,800 seats) was barely half full. That's with all the BYU fans. Same with SCU (nice gym).



I just bought tickets for the SMC game. We're 10 days away from the game and it's one of SMC's biggest games of the season yet tickets are still available for a 3,500 seat gym. Now SMC often leaks tickets out (they don't like BYU fans showing up), but that shouldn't be happening. So, if you're USF, Pepperdine, or even SMC is it really worth raising millions to upgrade a gym you barely fill for the season's biggest games? Probably not.



In theory, if the WCC improves and become more competitive, more fans will show up to games. But there are a lot of variables that go into that.

byufan4ever wrote:
I have not been to any of the WCC basketball arenas (except for BYU of course) so I can't comment on how nice they are but I used the link provided by BYULV to compare the WCC to the MWC, PAC-12, and Big-12.


Stadium Capacity.PNG

I'm not saying the WCC has horrible fans. I too like the idea of being part of a private Christian school conference. But you cannot honestly say that the arena capacity is anywhere close to that of other conferences. The next biggest WCC arena would be at the bottom of the PAC-12 and Big-12 and 3rd smallest in the MWC.



My point is not to belittle the WCC, but the arenas make it feel like a small-time conference. During one of the games I was watching last night (Ohio St.-Minnesota & Iowa St. - Oklahoma St.) one of the commenters said something about the "Power 7" conferences. I had never heard of that. I think everyone has heard of the Power 5 in college football. If there is a Power 7 in basketball, would the WCC be included? According to Sagarin, it is currently the 8th best conference (better than the MWC).

This is one of my favorite stats for when stupid Ute fans try and talk arena size. The average WCC gym is 5,000 smaller in capacity than the average PAC gym. The Huntsman Center is 5,000 smaller than the Marriott Center. So if WCC gyms are "high school" gyms compared to the PAC (BASED SOLELY ON SIZE) wouldn’t Utah be similarly considered "high school when compared to BYU?

As I said before, Santa Clara’s gym is very nice; actually both Santa Clara and UOP have a nicer gyms than the Huntsman Center.

I should stop beating this dead horse, so this will be my last post on this subject. My experience is that these small schools have a smaller student body, and one less interested in intercollegiate athletic (I think that if the students cared about that, they’d have gone to a school with a football team) These students tend to become Alumni who also are less enthusiastic about sports (although if you ask them, they’d say “more well rounded”) so there will be always some demand for an athletic team, to have a well rounded college experience, but that is more of a smaller part of what the majority of their students are looking for. To me, it is almost impossible to belittle their gyms without also belittling the student experience at the school. When you call something “high school” sized, it’s never a good thing for an academic intuition other than a middle school. And even worse when leaving off the “sized” and just calling it a “high school gym” as so many Utes like to do. Santa Clara’s gym is a BMW 3 series to Utah’s Buick Roadmaster. I can tell you which one I’d rather be driving….

I guess I look at this way. We're a big fish in small pond. We should be dominating. We're not going up against Duke and North Carolina every week.



My point is: I'm just happy that we're finally living up to my expectations of dominating lesser teams.

byufan4ever wrote:
I guess I look at this way. We're a big fish in small pond. We should be dominating. We're not going up against Duke and North Carolina every week.



My point is: I'm just happy that we're finally living up to my expectations of dominating lesser teams.

By Ute logic, Duke shouldn't be in the same league with us either. Cameron Indoor Stadium has a capacity of 9,314

The whole point of comparing gym size was just to show that in the NCAA there are a lot of small gyms, it's not just the WCC. BBALL is different than football in that it's easier to get a competitive BBall team of 14 players than a football team of a hundred, from a lot of these smaller schools. Many of The WCC teams have been in the national spotlight historically (LMU, USF, SMC and Gonzaga still is), would become really interesting if 4-5 teams could really step it up and get nationally competitive at the same time instead of spread out over time. The WCChas quality private schools that are really expensive to attend. I think they could leverage that to bolster their BBall programs and get more competitive, just need to fine tune their target recruits better. Probably get a lot of foreign players like SMC and Gonzaga do.