The Whittingham Myth

hawkwing wrote:
What is amazing to me is that Whittingham's only sole achievement over Bronco is that he wins the rivalry game more consistently. In every other category he's either on par, or below Bronco. Yet so many fans have come to see him as a hot commodity that would take BYU to the promised land.

CrimsonCoug wrote:
And so why would this guy who's on par with BYU's current head coach and peed on his alma mater be attractive to AD or BoT? And why would BYU be attractive to him? The whole notion is silly. But not quite as silly as a fan base who relished the predictions of Whittingham being fired at the beginning of the season now pining for him. THAT is silly.



Whit's a good coach, and had some good wins this year, but in his up and down world, I'll be shocked if he can match this year's success next year.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

And so why would this guy who's on par with BYU's current head coach and peed on his alma mater be attractive to AD or BoT? And why would BYU be attractive to him? The whole notion is silly. But not quite as silly as a fan base who relished the predictions of Whittingham being fired at the beginning of the season now pining for him. THAT is silly.



Whit's a good coach, and had some good wins this year, but in his up and down world, I'll be shocked if he can match this year's success next year.

Who is "pining" for Whitt? I haven't seen one BYU fan. I'm. It the mostly widely read fan, but I just don't see it. CC did a whole poll.

What BYU pines for is a win over their rival, not getting dominated for years by their rival. That doesn't mean any of us would trade whit for spit.

hawkwing wrote:
The pining is there, it's just not on CougarCorner. I tend to think that it's because CougarCorner represents a more mature, professional audience. But in other sites there is quite a bit of pining.

hawkwing wrote:

Perception is reality. Like it or not, Whit has successfully created the perception that Utah is better than BYU even though the numbers clearly show otherwise. How did Whit do this? By simply beating BYU on the field (handedly, I might add).



People are products of perception, so to the masses Utah is better than BYU (being invited to the Pac adds to the perception). Credit Whit for knowing a bit more about how people think and capitalizing on it.



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I think you give Whitt too much credit. I think he just hates BYU and is willing to lose 2 games a year to win the 1 (against BYU).



But that's just my perception.



Even if you're right, his trick wouldn't work as well at BYU as it would at Utah, because BYU fans are more engaged and would not be willing to put up with 4 or 5 losses a year for long even with beating their rival.

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:
Perception is reality. Like it or not, Whit has successfully created the perception that Utah is better than BYU even though the numbers clearly show otherwise. How did Whit do this? By simply beating BYU on the field (handedly, I might add).



People are products of perception, so to the masses Utah is better than BYU (being invited to the Pac adds to the perception). Credit Whit for knowing a bit more about how people think and capitalizing on it.



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I think you give Whitt too much credit. I think he just hates BYU and is willing to lose 2 games a year to win the 1 (against BYU).



But that's just my perception.



Even if you're right, his trick wouldn't work as well at BYU as it would at Utah, because BYU fans are more engaged and would not be willing to put up with 4 or 5 losses a year for long even with beating their rival.

True, I'm giving Whit too much credit as a mastermind. It more than likely is just Whit doing whatever it takes to beat BYU. He has that game circled. It's a statement game for him and Ute fans.



I actually think many BYU fans right now would be just fine with BYU going 8 - 4 as long as we beat Utah. 8 - 4 doesn't get us into any better bowl than 11 - 1 while beating Utah would give BYU fans something to brag about. Right now, what do we have to brag about? After 3 - 4 years of going 8 - 4 and beating Utah, BYU fans would more than likely get tired and want more.

SpiffCoug wrote:
11-1 would not have gotten BYU in over Boise. One NY6 bowl slot is reserved for the highest ranking G5 team. BYU is not a G5 member, Boise is.

ABYUFAN wrote:

11-1 would not have gotten BYU in over Boise. One NY6 bowl slot is reserved for the highest ranking G5 team. BYU is not a G5 member, Boise is.

Had we beaten Boise, and been 11-1 we would have had a better record than them, and undoubtedly been ranked higher than them. We would have qualified for an "at large" bid, and would have been taken by the Fiesta Bowl leaving BSU to be taked by a different NY6 game (I doubt that the Fiesta Bowl would want a rematch)

SpiffCoug wrote:
Just like with the BCS, the NY6 weren't and aren't going to have two non-P5 teams in their bowls unless they absolutely have to. The only way BYU ever makes an NY6 game is to be in the final four.

snoscythe wrote:

Just like with the BCS, the NY6 weren't and aren't going to have two non-P5 teams in their bowls unless they absolutely have to. The only way BYU ever makes an NY6 game is to be in the final four.

Not true. Conference champions from each of the P5 and the best of the G5 each get automatic berths. Notre Dame has their own road to access via the Orange Bowl tie-in. None of which BYU can get.



However, BYU can get into a NY6 bowl by either (i) making it to the top 4, which puts them in the playoff, or (ii) by being one of the top five or so teams who don't otherwise get an automatic bid. The at-large spots are filled by the top teams, as ranked by the selection committee, who didn't get an auto bid.



Take for example this, the first season:



Auto-bids/champions = Alabama, Oregon, FSU, Ohio State, Baylor/TCU (nice job Big XII), Boise St. Ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, 5/6 and 20 respectively.



The "at-large" selections were Baylor/TCU, Miss. St, MSU, Ole Miss, Arizona, and Georgia Tech, #s 5/6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12 (K-State, #11 was skipped b/c of the Orange Bowl's unique ACC tie-ins.



So, unless something really funky happens where a number of P5 champions are ranked outside the top-10 and lower than other teams in their conferences, BYU should be able to get in with a top-10 finish without leaving any discretion to the committee other than how to rank the Cougars.



Translation = BYU has access outside cracking the top-4.

snoscythe wrote:

Just like with the BCS, the NY6 weren't and aren't going to have two non-P5 teams in their bowls unless they absolutely have to. The only way BYU ever makes an NY6 game is to be in the final four.

Not true. Conference champions from each of the P5 and the best of the G5 each get automatic berths. Notre Dame has their own road to access via the Orange Bowl tie-in. None of which BYU can get.



However, BYU can get into a NY6 bowl by either (i) making it to the top 4, which puts them in the playoff, or (ii) by being one of the top five or so teams who don't otherwise get an automatic bid. The at-large spots are filled by the top teams, as ranked by the selection committee, who didn't get an auto bid.



Take for example this, the first season:



Auto-bids/champions = Alabama, Oregon, FSU, Ohio State, Baylor/TCU (nice job Big XII), Boise St. Ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, 5/6 and 20 respectively.



The "at-large" selections were Baylor/TCU, Miss. St, MSU, Ole Miss, Arizona, and Georgia Tech, #s 5/6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12 (K-State, #11 was skipped b/c of the Orange Bowl's unique ACC tie-ins.



So, unless something really funky happens where a number of P5 champions are ranked outside the top-10 and lower than other teams in their conferences, BYU should be able to get in with a top-10 finish without leaving any discretion to the committee other than how to rank the Cougars.



Translation = BYU has access outside cracking the top-4.

Gunk wrote:
So, would you rather go 10 - 2 and to the Whatever Bowl, or go 8 - 4, beat Utah, and go to the Whatever Bowl. I'd take the 2nd option. At least right now.

hawkwing wrote:

So, would you rather go 10 - 2 and to the Whatever Bowl, or go 8 - 4, beat Utah, and go to the Whatever Bowl. I'd take the 2nd option. At least right now.

I respect your desire to do that, and it would work for 2 years, but after that 5-8 win seasons wont be enough for the fans, even with beating Utah.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

Gunk wrote:
So, would you rather go 10 - 2 and to the Whatever Bowl, or go 8 - 4, beat Utah, and go to the Whatever Bowl. I'd take the 2nd option. At least right now.

I respect your desire to do that, and it would work for 2 years, but after that 5-8 win seasons wont be enough for the fans, even with beating Utah.

But just as Utah beating BYU has created a lot of forbearance by Utah fans, so also it would help ameliorate BYU fans angst with Bronco.

hawkwing wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

So, would you rather go 10 - 2 and to the Whatever Bowl, or go 8 - 4, beat Utah, and go to the Whatever Bowl. I'd take the 2nd option. At least right now.

I respect your desire to do that, and it would work for 2 years, but after that 5-8 win seasons wont be enough for the fans, even with beating Utah.

But just as Utah beating BYU has created a lot of forbearance by Utah fans, so also it would help ameliorate BYU fans angst with Bronco.

Ute fans expect less. It would work with BYU fans, but not for as long as with Ute fans.