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Why will this team win a tourney game?

by mizzoucoug · 12/15/2009

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mizzoucoug
I see different players but the same style of live and die by the 3 ball while poorly defending it. I'd like to know what others think is different about this group that will get us a W in the tourney. So far I'm not seeing it even though I'm trying to be as optimistic as possible.
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craigoscarson
mizzoucoug wrote:
I see different players but the same style of live and die by the 3 ball while poorly defending it. I'd like to know what others think is different about this group that will get us a W in the tourney. So far I'm not seeing it even though I'm trying to be as optimistic as possible.


I think you're right AND that's if we make the tourney.

Our RPI is suffering because of how bad our schedule is. If we don't beat Nevada, Tulsa/Nebraska, Arizona, and Utep, we won't have much of a noncon resume to brag about. (everyone of those games are away from the MC too)

Utep might be the best team on our schedule; outside of a couple of our conference opponents. They have Derick Caracter, formerly of Louisville; he's a sociopath of a human being but a man child on the court.



Our conference has fared relatively well thus far and if TCU and Utah had won 2-3 more of their close/OT games, the MWC would be ahead of the Pac 10 right now.

I had really hoped that Chris Miles would elevate his game for his senior year and it has not happened.



Same for JT, who we hoped had grown and matured during his experience with the Brazilian national team.



Bright side? Hartsock is very very efficient and our best rebounder. Davies is going to get better as the season goes on. Tyler Haws is much better than advertised and Lloyd, Abouo, and Morgan are all giving us quality minutes.



At some point, our poor shooting is going to hurt us though; However, it's also the reason you can never count us out in a game, including the NCAAs. One game where Jimmer and JT are hitting shots and we could beat everyone but some of the most athletic top 10 teams.
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Italics
No different than last year. First round loss. But I do think we'll at least make it that far.
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EM_Puma
I've wondered this question from week one. Are we different enough to win that first tourney game. First off it will depend a lot on the matchup. For what it's worth, we've drawn a challanging matchup the last few years and while the game was winnable, we failed to play our best when it mattered the most.



I think I still want to see more. I think we are a better team that last season, so I have optimism that we can finally win that tournament game.
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BerliNY
Why will this team win a tourney game?



Tyler Haws and Jimmer will go off and JT will get stuck in traffic on the way to the game. We could/would have won either of the last two tourney games if we had bothered to show up. Once we've got one under our belt I see us having all the confidence we need to keep winning, as is I think we've got all the talent we need.
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Qman
BerliNY wrote:
Why will this team win a tourney game?



Tyler Haws and Jimmer will go off and JT will get stuck in traffic on the way to the game. We could/would have won either of the last two tourney games if we had bothered to show up. Once we've got one under our belt I see us having all the confidence we need to keep winning, as is I think we've got all the talent we need.




Actually it seems like now that JT is playing less we are better team. If we are in a funk he can come in off the bench and change things up. If not he can stay on the bench.
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mizzoucoug
BerliNY wrote:
Why will this team win a tourney game?



Tyler Haws and Jimmer will go off and JT will get stuck in traffic on the way to the game. We could/would have won either of the last two tourney games if we had bothered to show up. Once we've got one under our belt I see us having all the confidence we need to keep winning, as is I think we've got all the talent we need.


LOL, nice. Yeah, I've had it with JT. The less he plays the better. He makes the spectacular shot or pass once or twice per game, but the rest of the time he's a liability. My biggest frustration is that we do have an inside game. I personally like Miles down low and I think Davies can score too. But we never ever dump it down there. We're the only team I know of that just refuses to establish a presence down low even though we can! I get so frustrated...then they just swing it around til someone has enough room to launch a 3. Where is Rose with that garbage? Against these JV teams, yeah that works. Against an A&M or AZ you've got to get physical and get to the FT line early and often. I just don't see that adjustment ever take place more than one possession in a row.
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Short_Change
craigoscarson wrote:
I see different players but the same style of live and die by the 3 ball while poorly defending it. I'd like to know what others think is different about this group that will get us a W in the tourney. So far I'm not seeing it even though I'm trying to be as optimistic as possible.


I think you're right AND that's if we make the tourney.

Our RPI is suffering because of how bad our schedule is. If we don't beat Nevada, Tulsa/Nebraska, Arizona, and Utep, we won't have much of a noncon resume to brag about. (everyone of those games are away from the MC too)

Utep might be the best team on our schedule; outside of a couple of our conference opponents. They have Derick Caracter, formerly of Louisville; he's a sociopath of a human being but a man child on the court.



Our conference has fared relatively well thus far and if TCU and Utah had won 2-3 more of their close/OT games, the MWC would be ahead of the Pac 10 right now.

I had really hoped that Chris Miles would elevate his game for his senior year and it has not happened.



Same for JT, who we hoped had grown and matured during his experience with the Brazilian national team.



Bright side? Hartsock is very very efficient and our best rebounder. Davies is going to get better as the season goes on. Tyler Haws is much better than advertised and Lloyd, Abouo, and Morgan are all giving us quality minutes.



At some point, our poor shooting is going to hurt us though; However, it's also the reason you can never count us out in a game, including the NCAAs. One game where Jimmer and JT are hitting shots and we could beat everyone but some of the most athletic top 10 teams.


Character has only played in one game this year and had a whopping 2 points in 12 minutes. Either he's coming off an injury, has lost his game, or UTEP just has a lot better players.
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Schmoe
Because we have experience, our players are hungry for it, and they know that I can't stand another letdown this year. GO COUGS!!
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Y&Brit
If we get better than 8/9 yes.
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Italics
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.
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SpiffCoug
Italics wrote:
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.

Complete opinion. There is no way to say this one way or another with any degree of certainty.



Does this current BYU team have flaws? I think so. Are they a better team than last year? I think so. Can they win a NCAA tourney game? I think so. Will they? I think so.



Why do I think so? Because we are showing some toughness on the road. It's very difficult to win on the road in college basketball. Of all the big sports in the country (NCAA football, NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, MLB, NCAA bball) the biggest home field/court/rink/pitch advantage is in NCAA bball. Teams win at home. They struggle on the road. So far, BYU has played well away from the Marriott Center.



I like the toughness, rebounding and shot making ability that Noah Hartsock brings to the 4-spot. It's the first time BYU has had a legtimate four. I like the ability to get to the rim of Fredette, Haws and Abouo. I like the athleticism Davies brings to the 5-spot. I think he and Miles are making a very good combination of giving opposing centers different looks. I just think this is a better team. Time will tell.
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Mars
Italics wrote:
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.

We led by 15 with 1:26 left. Rose eased up on his friend.
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Italics
Mars wrote:
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.

We led by 15 with 1:26 left. Rose eased up on his friend.


Most teams that will make the tourney this year would have played 4 quarters and maintained that lead.
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SpiffCoug
Italics wrote:
Italics wrote:
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.

We led by 15 with 1:26 left. Rose eased up on his friend.


Most teams that will make the tourney this year would have played 4 quarters and maintained that lead.


And by "4 quarters" you really mean two halves, right? Look. If you're going to be critical of the team, as least get simple facts correct. Otherwise your opinions look asinine and uniformed.
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snoscythe
kitic77 wrote:
Mars wrote:
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.

We led by 15 with 1:26 left. Rose eased up on his friend.


Most teams that will make the tourney this year would have played 4 quarters and maintained that lead.


And by "4 quarters" you really mean two halves, right? Look. If you're going to be critical of the team, as least get simple facts correct. Otherwise your opinions look asinine and uniformed.


I daresay that NO team in the tourney this year will play four quarters?
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Italics
kitic77 wrote:
Mars wrote:
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.

We led by 15 with 1:26 left. Rose eased up on his friend.


Most teams that will make the tourney this year would have played 4 quarters and maintained that lead.


And by "4 quarters" you really mean two halves, right? Look. If you're going to be critical of the team, as least get simple facts correct. Otherwise your opinions look asinine and uniformed.


Wow, harsh! I can't help but think had I made these same comments towards you that the mods would have been all over it by now.



You really think I don't know that college basketball consists of two halves? I guarantee I watch and play more of it than yourself.



But congrats, your thoughtless response is about the intellectual equivalent of when somebody responds to a long post with "you spelled 'you're' incorrectly."



And what kind of uniform are my opinions wearing?
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SpiffCoug
Italics wrote:
Italics wrote:
Italics wrote:
Most teams that will make it to the tourney this year would have beaten Fresno St. by more than 5 points. Just sayin'.

We led by 15 with 1:26 left. Rose eased up on his friend.


Most teams that will make the tourney this year would have played 4 quarters and maintained that lead.


And by "4 quarters" you really mean two halves, right? Look. If you're going to be critical of the team, as least get simple facts correct. Otherwise your opinions look asinine and uniformed.


Wow, harsh! I can't help but think had I made these same comments towards you that the mods would have been all over it by now.



You really think I don't know that college basketball consists of two halves? I guarantee I watch and play more of it than yourself.



But congrats, your thoughtless response is about the intellectual equivalent of when somebody responds to a long post with "you spelled 'you're' incorrectly."



And what kind of uniform are my opinions wearing?

I don't think the mods would have come down on you. Nor do I think I enjoy any special treatment. I apologize if I was harsh. But you do have to admit that when talking about college basketball, to get something as basic as the time divisions of the game, would call into question the knowledge base of the person making the comments. Using incorrect terms in a discussion is usually a sign of ignorance. If you have played/do play college ball, I would further think you would know better than most how the game is divided.



The fact remains that your statement was proffered as fact when it is nothing but pure, unsupportable opinion. BYU is a good team. Winning on the road in college basketball is extremely difficult, regardless of the venue or opponent.
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Italics
In your response you had:



- Spelled "at" incorrectly

- Spelled "uninformed" incorrectly (a somewhat irony in itself)

- Misused punctuation



Does this mean you shouldn't be on an english discussion forum because you yourself don't even seem to know the most basic mechanics of the language?



Again, do you really think I don't know there are two halves in NCAAB? If you don't think I'm that ignorant, then why bring it up? The NBA has four quarters, football has four quarters, and several other basketball leagues and sports are divided as such. It's really that shocking to you that in a post that took me literally ten seconds to type that - while making a point that BYU needed to show up the WHOLE game - I would subconsciously type "four quarters?"



C'mon. And what's worse, you still defend it as if I should have known better!



PS - I think there is more fact/truth in my statement that most teams in the tourney this year will/would beat Fresno by more than 5 points than there is unsupported opinion. An unsupported opinion would be that byu DOES have what it takes to get to the second round, not that they don't. I'm failing to see where you have used logic and I haven't.
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SpiffCoug
You should have capitalized the English language. I admit to the poor spelling. I stand behind my punctuation though.



You are correct that BYU should have beaten Fresno by more than the five points they did. But the game was not a five-point game. BYU led by nearly 20 points in the second half and were up 12 with about 90 seconds to go. They game was not nearly as close as the final game indicated. I also thought I was pretty clear that all of my opinions were just that.



The questions as to whether most tourney teams would win by more than five in Fresno is completely separate and unrelated to whether BYU is good enough to get to the second round. They are mutually exclusive. Most teams in the tournament won't advance to the second round. In fact, only 25% will make it to the third round.



As for my logic, I thought I stated my opinions and then gave reasons why I believed that way. If my reasons are correct then the logic I used to draw those opinions is sound. If my reasons turn out to be incorrect, then yes, my logic was flawed. As I said, "Time will tell."
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