by frdbtr · 11/25/2014
frdbtr wrote:
How many times last year did we see late game leads go by the wayside only to lose? If we hadn't blown leads against good teams last year, we would have had a much higher seed in the tourney and a chance to advance. Last night was more of the same, 5 point lead with seconds left in overtime only to blow it and lose in 2OT. This same story is getting old and I don't know what the answer is to fix it.
Gunk wrote:
Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc and another player had a career night shooting 3s against us - not because of poor post defense. We were so concerned with protecting the paint that we left the perimeter completely wide open. We did this all season last year, even with Mika.
We may have had big men that could defend the paint, which kept us in the game but we lost because of the same weaknesses that plagued us last year. Don't forget we shot 63% from the free throw line too. Before OT we were shooting 50% from the line.
Once again, we were relegated to playing zone because our opponent was over whelming us when playing man (our better bigs didn't help there). And once again, we left men wide open as we huddled in the middle of the court anytime someone got within a foot of the key, and once again we got out rebounded.
Gunk wrote:
Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc
snoscythe wrote:Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc
Per the ESPN.com boxscore, SDSU shot 33.3% on three-point attempts, and 48.5% from the field overall.
I think you may mixed up the stats as BYU shot 43.3% from three (rounds up to your 44%), but only 38.5% from the field overall.
Gunk wrote:Gunk wrote:
Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc
Per the ESPN.com boxscore, SDSU shot 33.3% on three-point attempts, and 48.5% from the field overall.
I think you may mixed up the stats as BYU shot 43.3% from three (rounds up to your 44%), but only 38.5% from the field overall.
Correct. The 44% was before the 2OT, I believe. Was just a number I remembered from last night. SDSU was shooting about 20% from three before last night. Either way, they got "hot."
craigoscarson wrote:How many times last year did we see late game leads go by the wayside only to lose? If we hadn't blown leads against good teams last year, we would have had a much higher seed in the tourney and a chance to advance. Last night was more of the same, 5 point lead with seconds left in overtime only to blow it and lose in 2OT. This same story is getting old and I don't know what the answer is to fix it.
It was a coinflip on a neutral court against a top notch opponent. That's more than Vegas thought would happen.
Here's the difference between this year and last. We had big men that could defend at the end of the game. Last year Mika was hurt or fouled out by the end of the game, Worthington was either fouled out or flopping around like a newborn deer, and Austin was usually in foul trouble leaving us with playing KC at the four or having a vastly outmatched Josh Sharp trying to defend the 4 or even 5.
It got so bad that midway through the season Dave Rose chose to start Worthington over our freshman all american just to avoid foul trouble and depth issues at the end of the game.
This year Nielsen and Kaufusi have shown that they can defend the post, Worthington is improved (not great but improved), and Josh Sharp didn't see the light of day... that's why we made it to OT and that's why we had a chance to win.
Our depth in the post is one of the brightest spots on this team and it's so underrated to be able to tolerate foul trouble and exhaustion. I wish it were experienced depth, but for the next 5-6 years after this, depth and experience in the post will NEVER be a problem. We don't get to OT or double OT without having Nielsen and Kaufusi... last year when Mika and Austin got hurt or fouled out, we were dead to rights which is why we dropped so many games at the end that we should have won. This year we made our comeback at the end and had a fighting chance because of our depth.. granted they can't score with their backs to the basket, but Nielsen and Kaufusi can defend.
I'm sorry but I think we overachieved last night and underachieved last year. SDSU is a really really good team.
craigoscarson wrote:Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc and another player had a career night shooting 3s against us - not because of poor post defense. We were so concerned with protecting the paint that we left the perimeter completely wide open. We did this all season last year, even with Mika.
We may have had big men that could defend the paint, which kept us in the game but we lost because of the same weaknesses that plagued us last year. Don't forget we shot 63% from the free throw line too. Before OT we were shooting 50% from the line.
Once again, we were relegated to playing zone because our opponent was over whelming us when playing man (our better bigs didn't help there). And once again, we left men wide open as we huddled in the middle of the court anytime someone got within a foot of the key, and once again we got out rebounded.
You're wrong. Our perimeter D isn't great but only one player hit any outside shots... Outside of Quinn, they were 3-12 from 3. Quinn was 4-14 prior to this game... It wasn't terrible perimeter D it was a hot shooter that was allowed to shoot 3s (that's one shot you can get off against a zone) They outrebounded us by 10... can you imagine how bad it would have been without Nielsen and Kaufusi? If Worthington and Sharp had to play the 4-5? It would never have made it to OT.
Without the zone, we get eaten alive inside. The tradeoff is letting a poor shooting team get some 3s off and they shot 33.% from 3..(same percentage they got against Utah, a very good perimeter defensive team) take away Quinn and they shot 25%... those are acceptable odds playing zone D. Losing the rebounding battle by 10 is not acceptable and that's with our new found depth... the entire post of the original post is "TYPICAL BYU BASKETBALL GAME" My point is that it wasn't typical at all. In fact I found it very encouraging. We were one called travel, one less turnover, one more made free throw (we shot poorly from the line), one mugging call of Haws, etc. (just one of any of those) from winning against a top 15 team on a neutral court. How is that not encouraging? How is that typical BYU basketball?
Our depth kept us in a game that we were physically and athletically overmatched in. They slowed down, we sped up in the 2nd half. That did not happen the last two years. It happened in this game. Ultimately 1-2 no calls or bad calls, an untimely turnover, one free throw cost us this game against a team that is unquestionably better than us.
Gunk wrote:Gunk wrote:
Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc and another player had a career night shooting 3s against us - not because of poor post defense. We were so concerned with protecting the paint that we left the perimeter completely wide open. We did this all season last year, even with Mika.
We may have had big men that could defend the paint, which kept us in the game but we lost because of the same weaknesses that plagued us last year. Don't forget we shot 63% from the free throw line too. Before OT we were shooting 50% from the line.
Once again, we were relegated to playing zone because our opponent was over whelming us when playing man (our better bigs didn't help there). And once again, we left men wide open as we huddled in the middle of the court anytime someone got within a foot of the key, and once again we got out rebounded.
You're wrong. Our perimeter D isn't great but only one player hit any outside shots... Outside of Quinn, they were 3-12 from 3. Quinn was 4-14 prior to this game... It wasn't terrible perimeter D it was a hot shooter that was allowed to shoot 3s (that's one shot you can get off against a zone) They outrebounded us by 10... can you imagine how bad it would have been without Nielsen and Kaufusi? If Worthington and Sharp had to play the 4-5? It would never have made it to OT.
Without the zone, we get eaten alive inside. The tradeoff is letting a poor shooting team get some 3s off and they shot 33.% from 3..(same percentage they got against Utah, a very good perimeter defensive team) take away Quinn and they shot 25%... those are acceptable odds playing zone D. Losing the rebounding battle by 10 is not acceptable and that's with our new found depth... the entire post of the original post is "TYPICAL BYU BASKETBALL GAME" My point is that it wasn't typical at all. In fact I found it very encouraging. We were one called travel, one less turnover, one more made free throw (we shot poorly from the line), one mugging call of Haws, etc. (just one of any of those) from winning against a top 15 team on a neutral court. How is that not encouraging? How is that typical BYU basketball?
Our depth kept us in a game that we were physically and athletically overmatched in. They slowed down, we sped up in the 2nd half. That did not happen the last two years. It happened in this game. Ultimately 1-2 no calls or bad calls, an untimely turnover, one free throw cost us this game against a team that is unquestionably better than us.
One player took 15 three-pointers. He single handily kept SDSU in the game and we left him open all night long. We did this repeatedly last season, which cost us games. I get the zone was a trade-off. And if I am Rose, I try to get SDSU to take outside shots given their woeful shooting percentage. But, I'm sorry after the 4th three-pointer a body should have been on Quinn at all times.
I'm not taking anything away from our bigs. They held the fort down. They aren't the reason we lost.
Regarding depth, Rose basically only played 7 players last night. Worthington chipped in 8 min and Nixon 6. I don't think Worthington played a minute after the first half. Nixon might have briefly come off the bench.
Austin, Kaufusi, Nielson, Haws, KC, Fischer, and Winder literally did 94% of the heavy lifting. Literally. Out of the 250 minutes played by BYU players, those 7 played 234 of them. Austin, Fischer, Haws, KC, and Winder played 79% of the game.
It is great having Worthington, Kaufusi, Neilson and Austin to rotate in. I agree we have depth at the 4/5. But if yesterday is any indication as to the real talent on this team, there is only one viable sub for the backcourt. Rose basically used Winder all night long to spell KC, Haws, and Fischer. There are depth issues when playing superior talent and it's with the guards.
mizzoucoug wrote:
And another one. Until BYU gets and develops some bigs who actually play basketball we'll always lose these games. Same old story different year.
frdbtr wrote:And another one. Until BYU gets and develops some bigs who actually play basketball we'll always lose these games. Same old story different year.
Yep, another team with a pulse resulting in another close loss. I wasn't able to watch or listen to this one but the result is still the same as it has been for the last couple of years. BYU is good enough to lose close games to decent teams and blow out the bad ones.
