Educate yourselves please!

If I hear one more person say, "our Dline isn't getting to the quarterback," or "The Dline isn't getting enough pressure" I might explode. Especially when you compare Utah's Dline to ours.



Please educate yourself on the system that we run (which according to the coaches is perfect) before you comment on things that you don't have knowledge of. You are showing your inexperience.

3-4 defense from Wikipedia:

A drawback of the 3–4 is that without a fourth lineman to take on the offensive blockers and close the running lanes, both the defensive linemen and the linebackers can be overwhelmed by blocking schemes in the running game. To be effective, 3–4 linebackers need their defensive line to routinely tie up a minimum of four (preferably all five) offensive linemen, freeing them to make tackles. The 3–4 linebackers must be very athletic and strong enough to shed blocks by fullbacks, tight ends, and offensive linemen to get to the running back. In most cases, 3–4 OLBs lead their teams in quarterback sacks.



Strengths of the 3–4 include speedy ILBs and OLBs in pursuit of backs in run defense and flexibility to use multiple rushers to confuse the quarterback during passing plays without being forced into man-to-man defense on receivers. Most teams try to disrupt the offense's passing attack by rushing four defenders. In a standard 4–3 alignment, these four rushers are usually the four down linemen. But in a 3–4, the fourth rusher is usually a linebacker, though many teams use a safety to blitz and confuse the coverage, giving them more defensive options in the same 3–4 look. However, since there are four linebackers and four defensive backs, the fourth potential rusher can come from any of eight defensive positions. This is designed to confuse the quarterback's pre-snap defensive read.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3%E2%80%934_defense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iupBixjjyZY





That is all, thank you. Rant over.

Whether people are saying it correctly or not, opposing QBs have had oodles of time to find downfield targets this year and not even sending LBs in blitz was able to change that during the 4 game skid. That said, a win is a win and I'm glad we got one against Middle Tennessee on that long road trip.

Our D-linemen aren't demanding enough attention to tie up the O-linemen, which means that our linebackers are picked up by the linemen instead of the running backs, making them unable to get pressure on the QB.



For us to get pressure, our D-line either needs to do a better job of drawing double teams or our linebackers need to learn how to shed the block of the best-trained blockers on every team, or both.

Schmoe wrote:
Our D-linemen aren't demanding enough attention to tie up the O-linemen, which means that our linebackers are picked up by the linemen instead of the running backs, making them unable to get pressure on the QB.



For us to get pressure, our D-line either needs to do a better job of drawing double teams or our linebackers need to learn how to shed the block of the best-trained blockers on every team, or both.

I think it is some of both, but more of the latter. I think that they need to play our best DE as a DE, for starters. I have watched linebackers run into the back of our lineman on multiple plays, and none of them know how to shuck a block or slide through.



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Signed Van Noy and Ansah, who made a living at BYU pressuring QBs.



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Gunk wrote:
Signed Van Noy and Ansah, who made a living at BYU pressuring QBs.



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I was only talking about our defense this year. In the past, we've had phenomenal QB pressure.

Schmoe wrote:
Our D-linemen aren't demanding enough attention to tie up the O-linemen, which means that our linebackers are picked up by the linemen instead of the running backs, making them unable to get pressure on the QB.



For us to get pressure, our D-line either needs to do a better job of drawing double teams or our linebackers need to learn how to shed the block of the best-trained blockers on every team, or both.

Yes! Is it any wonder why BK played almost exclusively at DE vs MTSU? And that the DL got more pressure on the qb?. Ok, yes, Its MTSU, but the 3-4 Dline at least got a lot more push.

I'm not buying the "all or nothing" about the 3-4 argument.

Schmoe wrote:

Signed Van Noy and Ansah, who made a living at BYU pressuring QBs.



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I was only talking about our defense this year. In the past, we've had phenomenal QB pressure.

But we were playing the same scheme as Blue mentioned, a scheme that isn't designed to get to the QB. Bronco is also quotedthisyear as saying the team needs to do a better job of it and that he likes a QB feeling the pressure.



In essence, feel free to critique this teams inability to get to the QB because we have done in the past with the pastsame scheme and Bronco says they need to do better job of it too.



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And I'm sure I have never heard Bronco so emphatic as he was earlier this year when he said first priority (and almost exclusive priority) is to "stop the run." The interviewer asked him if there were other priorities and he stated emphatically and rather dismissively (clearly put off by his "level of education"), "stop the run". If that is the "vision" the "mandate" is it any wonder that even at full strength this D wasn't getting pressure on the qb. The linemen were staying home and LBs went getting it done nor were the DBs. System-wide failure. Not Kaufusi (either one) fault.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
And I'm sure I have never heard Bronco so emphatic as he was earlier this year when he said first priority (and almost exclusive priority) is to "stop the run." The interviewer asked him if there were other priorities and he stated emphatically and rather dismissively (clearly put off by his "level of education"), "stop the run". If that is the "vision" the "mandate" is it any wonder that even at full strength this D wasn't getting pressure on the qb. The linemen were staying home and LBs went getting it done nor were the DBs. System-wide failure. Not Kaufusi (either one) fault.

When did this quote come out? I doubt Bronco though his pass rush was going to give QBs 30-35 seconds to get the ball out of their hands.

I can't remember. Around game four or five. Iirc, it was an end of first half interview on TV. But it has generally been his and the D philosophy. Just seemed far more explicit, if not exclusive (as in, stop the run and a team can just about win any game). And look at the opposing teams passing attempts and yardage. Houston the most obvious. Hard to run on Bronco, easy to pass. And when a team can do both (BSU) complete blow out.

Yes, bronco should have doubted sooner when sacks wet to showing up in the stat column. His LBs were not getting to the QB as a 3-4 should and has in past. And when Fua went out, BK high ankle sprain (but still not fast enough to end around like Ziggy, KVN, and even Fua) it didn't happen till Takitaki and that seems like a one hit wonder, for some reason. Oh and the DBs were sucking eggs and shouldn't have been. But that has been a debacle as a result of Howell being distracted by DC duties.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
I can't remember. Around game four or five. Iirc, it was an end of first half interview on TV. But it has generally been his and the D philosophy. Just seemed far more explicit, if not exclusive (as in, stop the run and a team can just about win any game). And look at the opposing teams passing attempts and yardage. Houston the most obvious. Hard to run on Bronco, easy to pass. And when a team can do both (BSU) complete blow out.

Yes, bronco should have doubted sooner when sacks wet to showing up in the stat column. His LBs were not getting to the QB as a 3-4 should and has in past. And when Fua went out, BK high ankle sprain (but still not fast enough to end around like Ziggy, KVN, and even Fua) it didn't happen till Takitaki and that seems like a one hit wonder, for some reason. Oh and the DBs were sucking eggs and shouldn't have been. But that has been a debacle as a result of Howell being distracted by DC duties.

Mostly agree. Usually if you do stuff the run, you are bound to win a lot of games. I don't have a problem with that philosophy. again, usually QBs generally don't use a sundial to calibrate their dropback passing timing though.



Although in the past I've always thought that Bronco's philosophy has been

1. Stop the run

2. Don't give up the big play (This is where BYU has been the worst this year)

3. Bend is ok, Break is not (BYU's offense this year post TH has not been able to turn the field, on the rare occasion the defense has got a stop, to the teams advantage)

Well said. Again, I don't know if. BM was trying to "simplify things" or what, but his standby 1-3 wasn't working. And it matched his mantra in interviews.

Pus, the whole mindless aggression thing this year as it cost critical penalties. It's like it was condoned and accepted as a stat that doesn't highly correlate with wins. probably accurate, fools gold nonetheless.

To be clear, the 3-4 can get adequate pressure on the qb, and whomever implied that I was saying it shouldn't is misunderstanding me.



In the 3-4 defense, it is the job of the defensive line to occupy offensive lineman. It is the responsibility of the linebackers to get to the backfield either through existing gaps, or around the pocket protection. Our linebackers this year are not athletic or strong enough to go through or around the protection. The defensive line needs to hold up their end of the bargain by occupying as many lineman aND tight ends as possible (4 is mandatory, 5 or 6 are a plus). Then the linebackers and/or safeties are free to pursue and hit (or in BYU'S cade, miss a tackle) the rb and qb.



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BlueIsBetter wrote:
To be clear, the 3-4 can get adequate pressure on the qb, and whomever implied that I was saying it shouldn't is misunderstanding me.



In the 3-4 defense, it is the job of the defensive line to occupy offensive lineman. It is the responsibility of the linebackers to get to the backfield either through existing gaps, or around the pocket protection. Our linebackers this year are not athletic or strong enough to go through or around the protection. The defensive line needs to hold up their end of the bargain by occupying as many lineman aND tight ends as possible (4 is mandatory, 5 or 6 are a plus). Then the linebackers and/or safeties are free to pursue and hit (or in BYU'S cade, miss a tackle) the rb and qb.



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Exactly. And we moved Kaufusi back to DE and voila the QB is getting pressured again. Why? Because Kaufusi is good enough to demand a double team, freeing up an LB to shot a gap or beat his guy 1v1 should they try to man him up.



It's too bad it took nine games for that experiment to end.

SpiffCoug wrote:
It's too bad it took nine games for that experiment to end.

Oh, come on...everybody knows a sound defensive scheme, at least against the pass, should be largely premised on the novel concept of "casting defensive shadows".



That article gave me pause back in July when I read it--we had a first-time defensive coordinator trying to force a paradigm shift in how defenses are structured and where you deploy personnel. I just hope he figures out how to be a DC before he goes on trying to reinvent the game again.



I think I remember seeing Robert Prince at the end of the BSU game yelling to our DC across the way, "Howell! You magnificent bastard, I read your book!"



http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4108886/patton-i-read-your-book-o.gif" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

snoscythe wrote:

It's too bad it took nine games for that experiment to end.

Oh, come on...everybody knows a sound defensive scheme, at least against the pass, should be largely premised on the novel concept of "casting defensive shadows".



That article gave me pause back in July when I read it--we had a first-time defensive coordinator trying to force a paradigm shift in how defenses are structured and where you deploy personnel. I just hope he figures out how to be a DC before he goes on trying to reinvent the game again.



I think I remember seeing Robert Prince at the end of the BSU game yelling to our DC across the way, "Howell! You magnificent bastard, I read your book!"



http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4108886/patton-i-read-your-book-o.gif" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

haha I actually think Prince was saying something different: "Howell! This ain't Oz and you aren't in high school anymore."

SpiffCoug wrote:

To be clear, the 3-4 can get adequate pressure on the qb, and whomever implied that I was saying it shouldn't is misunderstanding me.



In the 3-4 defense, it is the job of the defensive line to occupy offensive lineman. It is the responsibility of the linebackers to get to the backfield either through existing gaps, or around the pocket protection. Our linebackers this year are not athletic or strong enough to go through or around the protection. The defensive line needs to hold up their end of the bargain by occupying as many lineman aND tight ends as possible (4 is mandatory, 5 or 6 are a plus). Then the linebackers and/or safeties are free to pursue and hit (or in BYU'S cade, miss a tackle) the rb and qb.



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Exactly. And we moved Kaufusi back to DE and voila the QB is getting pressured again. Why? Because Kaufusi is good enough to demand a double team, freeing up an LB to shot a gap or beat his guy 1v1 should they try to man him up.



It's too bad it took nine games for that experiment to end.

Kaufusi to OLB is a disaster. BYU (and the idiot that made this decision) gets somewhat of a pass, because BK has been hurt and so there wasn't a lot of real time to make the decision of whether or not it was working, but I never understood the reason to move him in the first place. If you have a 3-4 DE that is getting to the quarterback and getting sacks through double teams, that is like having Christmas every single gameday. The idea of tweaking that and dropping him back in coverage against slot receivers is mind boggling stupidity, that I just can't get my head around that personnel decision.



In the NFL he is best suited for a 4-3 DE spot, just like Ziggy.



Further evidence that we need to go to the 4-3, and just beat people straight up, instead of toying around with defensive coverages. We have no problem getting elite NFL fatties here at BYU that can straight bull rush the middle, and then we give them two years to grow and mature on a mission. It is a no brainer. Think of all the lineman we have put into the NFL. (I was a Dlineman, so I can call them fatties, lol).

I don't think a 4-3 is the answer for the simple reason that I think we have more good LBs than we have good DLs. We have better talent at LB so I like have more LBs on the field.

Plus, in general the 3-4 is better at stopping the run, if the DL is taking up blockers. It's harder for OL to block players standing up 3 to 5 yards off the ball than it is for them to block someone in front of them.



Someone said on either this or another thread that the defense changed after Jan Jorgensen's Fr year, and that's why his stats went down. That's not true at all. Ever since Bronco came to BYU, they have been running an odd front defense. Jan's sacks went down because he was getting triple teamed on every play, and was still setting the edge or clogging up the middle.



Kaufusi played both DE and LB against MTSU (much like Ansah did during his time at BYU). He had a sack as a DL and a TFL as a LB. We'll continue to see him in both locations, as this is the most effective use of his talents.