For the Realists

Even if by some miracle if we go undefeated, we're not making it to the playoffs.



And, if by chance lighting were to strike twice and we make it to the playoffs, odds are we'd get creamed. No realistic way we hang with Oregon, Alabama or Florida. Personally, I hope we don't make the playoffs so we don't have to watch BYU get creamed and the P5 say, "See, we told you so."



Hill is a great QB, but he's not Heisman material. If you think Hill is the best QB out there, go watch Oregon's Mariota. That guy can fly and throw.



I'm okay with not going undefeated. I'm okay with not making the playoffs. I'm okay with Hill not being a Heisman candidate. It's all unrealistic. But realistically, every team on the remainder of our schedule is beatable. Even with all our warts. Doesn't mean we don't talk about the warts or the warts don't exist, but the reality of the situation doesn't have to get in the way of the fun.

I don't disagree that we would struggle against any of those teams you mentioned right now, however, I think we still have not peaked, in fact we are far from it at this point. I hope by the end of the season we have a team that could compete with the Oregon's and alabamas of college football. The great thing about college football is that the underdog does win often enough to keep it exciting.



As far as heisman material, I have to disagree about Taysom. He may not be the number one contender right now, but he is probably top 5 and definitely deserving of being in the conversation. Compared to a lot of the guts on "The List", he is having a much better season than the majority.

Mostly well said. Forget about playoffs. They would've had to torch UH anD UVA to keep all the love from media. Momentum has receded considerably. And BYU would get creamed by the phyicality of Alabama or FSU.

But, where I differ is that I do expect (even though I left the church) BYU to go undefeated, bc barring injuries, I expect it because BYU can and should with this remaining schedule! It is very realistic and therefore I expect it.

I am going to continue to enjoy it. If and when they lose then its just like so many other seasons get bummed for a few days adjust expectations and come back ready to enjoy it all again.They wont make the playoffs and like wise I am good with it.If they are undefeated at the end I would enjoy seeing them in one of the New Years day Bowls.

Oregon struggled some against Wazzu, so it doesn't seem so far fetched that BYU could show some pluck against them. And no, I don't believe that Mariotta can run quite as impressively as Hill. He might throw better, though. Still, Taysom is definitely Heisman material. If BYU wins out, he will likely finish in the top three. The real reason that Hill would not win that trophy, is not due to his personal performance limitations, but rather because he plays for a program not favored with P5 status. Any P5 program that wins out will likely have its big star awarded ahead of BYU's once-in-a-generation QB. The bias against non-power conferences is stronger now than back when Guys like Ty Detmer and Warren Moon won. The BCS BS was bad enough, but this "Power Five" crap seems even worse.



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P5 is a stronghold on most things. But THill was getting plenty of love post Texas. It has cooled but not gone away. tHill could get it back if he put up some more gaudy numbers, which he could against inferior terms. His run with the horse collar was at least marginal film material for a campaign, so, that's good. But I think Hill could get hot again. There is a fair contingent of media and America that would make BYU Americas team (espn analyst) and Taysom, Americas QB, ala 1984 when Charlene Wells won miss America following 1983's miss America who showed up in playboy. the Heisman voters are ticked at Jameis Winston and want somebody who is going to class and isn't in trouble with the law. So, the stage is partially set.

Even Detmer had a favorable year to win it, particualrly after others, mostly Steve Young, got hosed by the establishment. Detmer broke the ceiling. It wouldn't be as hard for THill. He just needs to p ut up numbers.

I am just happy to be 4-0, but do agree with the OP's comments. I like winning, but we are not playing like a playoff team.



I believe we can go undefeated, but not to take credit from the team but this would have as much to do with the schedule vs the quality of our team. The stars aligned (in a negative way) for our schedule. If this were 5-7 years ago we would have a really tough schedule with UT and BSU being top 10 type teams and UH with Sumlin or Briles as the head coach. Unfortunately our schedule will be very plain vanilla and even if we are undefeated I don't see how we make it; we also have not been winning convincingly (ex-UT) as we should vs this competition.



I believe we would get smashed vs most/all of the top 10 teams at the moment. Our defense is not great and outside Daniels a good passing team will have success all day long. Our run game can be pushed around just like vs ND and WI last season. The offense can be made one dimensional if you can contain TH and make him pass, he is a BYU version of Tim Tebow (not necessarily a bad thing, beast of a runner with sporadic passing skills). I believe on a neutral field we would lose to most teams in the top 25. I think if the stars aligned and we did make the playoff that we would get smashed by Alabama, Auburn, Florida State, Oregon, A&M, OU etc (especially if they have 3-4 weeks to prep). That being said, I would love the opportunity to have a shot and you never know what could happen on a given day.



Regarding TH, he is a very good QB. He is not a Heisman QB, he is having success on lesser quality defenses and has real problems passing the ball against tough defenses. I top defense would shut him down, not all his fault given what he would be working with. He is not a Mariotta, Winston (I dislike him but he is legit) etc etc. We are lucky to have him and his numbers will continue to be crazy as we play soft opponents (compared to the P5's). There are guys you can tell are fantastic no matter the competition, we can tell TH is a beast of an athlete but he is not a great QB (very good but not great).



Again, I am pleased to be undefeated and I believe it continues but I am also realistic enough to know we are no where near the caliber of the top 5-10 teams at the moment. Do I want to the chance for a playoff birth or New Years Day bowl, of course I do but don't believe it would be pretty......but you never know so would love the shot. I would rather get destroyed in big time bowl vs win a lower tier bowl not knowing if we are good or not.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
P5 is a stronghold on most things. But THill was getting plenty of love post Texas. It has cooled but not gone away. tHill could get it back if he put up some more gaudy numbers, which he could against inferior terms. His run with the horse collar was at least marginal film material for a campaign, so, that's good. But I think Hill could get hot again. There is a fair contingent of media and America that would make BYU Americas team (espn analyst) and Taysom, Americas QB, ala 1984 when Charlene Wells won miss America following 1983's miss America who showed up in playboy. the Heisman voters are ticked at Jameis Winston and want somebody who is going to class and isn't in trouble with the law. So, the stage is partially set.

Even Detmer had a favorable year to win it, particualrly after others, mostly Steve Young, got hosed by the establishment. Detmer broke the ceiling. It wouldn't be as hard for THill. He just needs to p ut up numbers.

What is the game that would get TH in the mix? What big "national" type game would TH have that is coming up that would cause the media to get excited? Detmer had Miami to do this, Manziel had Alabama, Winston had various games and most recently the Heisman winners had NC aspirations. I don't see Heisman voters clamoring over a big USU, UCF or even Cal win. He is going to get attention similar to the Northern Illinois QB a few years ago. What would be more likely is having a great year to set up next year vs perceived more quality competition.



This is not Miss America and voters are not voting for TH because they don't like Winston. They simply will not vote for Winston.

Good thing we got it cleared up that this isn't miss America. :roll:

You don't think there is subjectivity to the voters? You don't think that they will give more looks at a clean cut candidate in this year of football scandals? Hint: I'm not asking.

Texas was to Thill what Miami was to Detmer. What games did Detmer have after Miami? Exactly, you can't remember. When did Miami game occur? Yep, first of season. THill has gone from dark horse to top 8 bc of his performance vs Texas. He will at least get an invite if he keeps it up. But no, I don't expect him to win it. And yes, it could be a good set up for next year.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Good thing we got it cleared up that this isn't miss America. :roll:

You don't think there is subjectivity to the voters? You don't think that they will give more looks at a clean cut candidate in this year of football scandals? Hint: I'm not asking.

Texas was to Thill what Miami was to Detmer. What games did Detmer have after Miami? Exactly, you can't remember. When did Miami game occur? Yep, first of season. THill has gone from dark horse to top 8 bc of his performance vs Texas. He will at least get an invite if he keeps it up. But no, I don't expect him to win it. And yes, it could be a good set up for next year.

Why will TH be the guy that people would vote for vs Winston? No way Winston wins the Heisman but why would the votes go to TH vs all these other guys (Mariotta, Petty, Knight, Hill)? Do these have scandals I am unaware of? What will happen is one of the candidates will lead his team to a big win and put themselves in a spot for a playoff birth and become the hero while (fair or unfair) TH will be playing USU, Savannah State and MTSU. At this point we should be pleased if he remains in the mix and becomes a legit candidate next year.



TH beat a bad UT team in a game many thought we should win. Detmer beat the defending NC, that were a big favorite to win the NC again, a Heisman Trophy candidate and a defense full of NFL players in a game where we were massive underdogs. There is no comparison in UT vs Miami other than time of year. The time of year helped because the hype machine could help.



The latest odds I could see:



http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24711885/updated-heisman-odds-mariota-is-the-favorite-golson-petty-on-the-rise" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



No way TH jumps all these guys, no way. Winston is going to trend down. Other programs will get unfair exposure and hype......I will say it right now, ND gets over hyped (or maligned) and if ND keeps winning and pulls out a rabbit out of a hat (I don't believe it happens but I would love it) Golson would be a legit candidate (but more likely in TH's camp for next year). Mariotta keeps winning and it is his. Petty and Knight could be in position.



Notable upcoming games for Heisman competitors:



Mariotta - Stanford, UCLA, Washington, potential conference championship

Knight - Kansas State, OSU, Baylor

Petty - OU, OSU, Kansas State

Gurley - Auburn, Florida, Missouri, potential conference championship

Golson - Stanford, Florida State, USC, Arizona State

Hill - Auburn, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi, LSU, potential conference championship

T. Hill - USU, UCF, Boise State



Do you see where I am going? These guys will be getting huge hype with potential big wins while TH is playing weak competition. Like it or not TH is playing for next years Heisman with hope of being in the top 5 this year.

Lose your smug all or nothing argument and quit concluding things I have not suggested. see the middle ground, friend. He did pick up a lot of attention after the UT game. To say he didn't is rediculous. To say it was absolutely equivalent to Miami is also not accurate. but At UT is still a big stage. He will pick up SOME votes that he may not have otherwise, as will other candidates, bc they don't want Winston to get the votes. I never said he would win.

But back on topic, these words do give me some hope....if they translate to results.



“I would’ve liked to -- and there were a number of opportunities -- to pull away,” Mendenhall said. “We aren’t capable yet of being able to do that -- but we are capable of winning games. I’ll smile while we work on it, at least for now, but there is some urgency to make sure we can pull away when we have a chance.”



Cougar junior quarterback Taysom Hill knows his team has to take advantage of similar chances when they come around.



"We need that killer instinct," Hill said. "In hindsight, we’ll look at it and make sure we come out on top. I think a lot of it when we had those drives stall was stupid penalties. But for the most part we did what we needed to do to win the football game and that’s all that matters."

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Lose your smug all or nothing argument and quit concluding things I have not suggested. see the middle ground, friend. He did pick up a lot of attention after the UT game. To say he didn't is rediculous. To say it was absolutely equivalent to Miami is also not accurate. but At UT is still a big stage. He will pick up SOME votes that he may not have otherwise, as will other candidates, bc they don't want Winston to get the votes. I never said he would win.

Smugness because I don't agree with your argument? The UT game was impressive, but not many people are going to remember the game in December especially if UT keeps playing bad. Getting positive attention about an impressive performance and assuming this means Heisman votes are two different things.



Do I think this put him on the radar of some voters? Yes. Do I believe beating a bad/very average UT team put him at the top of the list now getting first place votes from new voters? No. He may pick-up a some third place votes, but to think this was enough to put him near the top is silly. He needs another year of this to really be in the mix.



No harm was intended, he simply is not going to win the Heisman. I would love it to happen but it is not happening this year.



Note: Just because UT is a big name does not mean it is a big stage. To put things in perspective, Utah stomped Michigan on Saturday in Ann Arbor on a "big stage".......do you see any national media giving a hoot about Utah winning the game? No, all the dialogue is about Michigan being down and the coach getting fired. UT is simply not viewed as a big win on a national level. UT is 1-2, they will likely lose 2 of the next three to start 2-4.

Going back to the original post, what are the goals?



First is get to a bowl. We are almost bowl eligible and we will get there.



Second is to finished ranked. We are there already, just need to maintain it.



Third is to get to a New Year's Day bowl. We are on route to it. Win out and it will happen.



Fourth is compete for a NC. Probably not going to happen but they are trying.



As we keep winning, we will get more air time and discussion. All of this is good for the program. I expect this to give us a recruiting boost. Especcially if we play New Year's Day. We are also getting a financial boast. More of the home games on ESPN and not a lesser channel pays better. Playing on Jan. 1 would be a windfall.

scott715 wrote:
Going back to the original post, what are the goals?



First is get to a bowl. We are almost bowl eligible and we will get there.



Second is to finished ranked. We are there already, just need to maintain it.



Third is to get to a New Year's Day bowl. We are on route to it. Win out and it will happen.



Fourth is compete for a NC. Probably not going to happen but they are trying.



As we keep winning, we will get more air time and discussion. All of this is good for the program. I expect this to give us a recruiting boost. Especcially if we play New Year's Day. We are also getting a financial boast. More of the home games on ESPN and not a lesser channel pays better. Playing on Jan. 1 would be a windfall.

We can achieve everything but #4 this year. I would change #3 to "win" a New Year's Day bowl game.



I agree playing on New Year's would be HUGE and I believe if we win out it likely happens. This would put us well in the mix in 2015 and make it a monster year with a likely top 10 ranking to start the year with TH clearly in the Heisman mix.

OKay, 3a win that bowl. Got to get there first. We are the only "BCS" buster other there this year. Keep winning and they will keep talking about us.

This is why byu needs to get in a p5 conference. This having to go undefeated in order to be considered for anything is just flat out ridiculous and getting old. No chance they get into the playoffs unless they go undefeated 2 years in a row and thats not happening with next years schedule.



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From the beginning I have viewed 2014 as a springboard into 2015.



With this season's schedule, a top 5 ranking will not happen unless there are less than five P-5 teams with one or fewer losses.



If BYU can take a 13-0 or 12-1 2014 and follow it up with a similar run against the 2015 schedule, that will be the year that a playoff berth may be within grasp. But it's not there this year, and this team is not ready yet.

Just keep winning and enjoy the ride. I don't need some "realist" to bring me down from being excited about my team and the possibility that this might be a special season. I have my own expectations as a fan, and that's what makes it fun. I especially feel bad for those who couldn't/didn't enjoy the game on Saturday, that was football at its best.

I believe BYU to be an above average team--a good team. I don't see us as great. If we had to play a P5 schedule we wouldn't be talking about going undefeated, but it is what it is.



For me, having the opportunity for a New Year's day bowl is on the wish list to reach for beyond all expectations. Unless we had hammered all the teams like we had Texas, there would be no room for championship game discussions.



The individual who is NOT a realist is BM. Jay Drew just noted that in the weekly interview that he "...wasn't concerned about not blowing out Houston or Virginia. Said the goal is to just win, nothing else." Well he said he wanted to win a national championship, and having that attitude only works in games played during the Millennium when things are supposed to be perfect.



As far as THill and the Heisman, won't happen. Detmer was the bone thrown to BYU after they had so many top 3-5 Heisman finishers and never won. Now, for someone at BYU to win, they'd have to put up incredible numbers and the regular P5 list of contenders would have to not set themselves apart.