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Bettors think BYU will have an offensive breakout game

by Yzzazz · 9/18/2014

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Yzzazz
The latest lines quoted on ESPN show BYU a two-touchdown favorite over Virginia, with a 48 point over-under mark. Even though that is a drift lower from a 17 point spread, it is still an impressive show of confidence for a BYU team that could only manage 8 points above Houston and that actually lost in Charloteville last year.



That prediction equates to a score of BYU 31, UVA 17.* Is that realisitc?



(* edit...thanks Sno!)



Basically, anyone taking that bet assumes two things: BYU will do better than they have done in the past three games, and Virginia will do worse. I find both of those propositions tough to buy into and if forced to bet I would be strongly tempted to bet against the notion that BYU could cover the spread.



Lines have a way of being reasonable prediction points most of the time. Not that they are accurate (you probably have memory of several notable exceptions at easy recall), but that they are within striking distance of being so. So you have to give them some credence when thinking up your own prediction about an upcoming game.



Now you could argue that my read on the line is wrong. BYU has averaged more than 35 points in it's first three games and Virginia has managed about 21 points to the two teams it has played most like BYU. So maybe the prediction is a defensive shot at the mean.



But I think the last two games have shown us that last year's games against the same teams have been better predictors of game outcomes than the lines have. (Really? BYU a 1 point favorite over a Longhorn's team that just lost it's starting QB and Center? What was anyone thinking?)



So if you start at last year's outcome and stretch to the current line, then you see where I am coming from. From that perspective, fans are expecting BYU to seriously outpeform over UVA. You can see why they would. It's in Provo and more importantly Taysom Hill actually has some live D1 game experience.



But if you look at how BYU has won the first three games, what stands out to me is a consistently strong defensive effort. I think it is a safer bet to imagine that BYU will win the game by holding Virginia under its scoring average. In fact, if you simply take last year's score's and apply the spread to those scores, you come up with an interesting prediction:



UVA 12 BYU 23



Now to me this seems much more feasible. BYU's defense does the job holding the Caveliers down while the BYU offense, though they struggle, simply cannot be denied for four quarters. One or two breakout plays may end up making all the difference.



Sure Apo and Kurtz could have breakout games, or Jamal could run circles around an elevation-surprised Virginia team. But I think the line overlooks the defensive strength of both teams a bit too much. If BYU scored 35 or more on Virginia it would mean that they had effectively unlocked their potential and were the dominant powerhouse we all wish they were. But we haven't seen that in the first three games and I'm beginning to think we won't see it in the fourth game.



At this point, I'll be quite excited over another "ugly" win if it comes!
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NDCougar
I would take the over. I do not think BYU puts up 40+ points, but I think they will put up 35 - 24 points, I think UVA will put up 20-30 points.



I don't see BYU as a 2 TD favorite, it could happen, but I see this as a 7-10 point game.



Even though I would take the over this was a tough guess for me. UVA has a tough defense and not a great offense. I could see this also being a grind it out game, which I do not want as I see TH taking too many carries in a grind it out game. If this happens it could be a 21-17 type game. I think UVA will look much tougher the 1st half vs the 2nd half before the mountain air catches up with them and TH gets into full effect.



UVA will try to contain TH and to make him pass the ball. If he cannot pass effectively you will see him running too much. We need to have success running the ball in planned runs to the RB's in order to keep the defense honest and allow TH extra time and alleviate the pressure.



All these are guess, I am probably wrong!
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snoscythe
The betting line of BYU -14/48 actually predicts a 31-17 win.
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Yzzazz
NDCougar wrote:
I would take the over. ... UVA has a tough defense and not a great offense.


Funny how you feel like you'd pick the over, but recognize UVA has defense. Since cougs strength has been its defense so far, it doesn't seem reasonable to bet the over. But the line agrees with you. Oddsmakers expect a lot of offense in this game.



Personally I think a shootout favors the cougs. I don't think Virginia can keep up. That scenario probably ends 48-31 for BYU.
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Yzzazz
snoscythe wrote:
The betting line of BYU -14/48 actually predicts a 31-17 win.


Doh!



I should quit helping my kids with their math homework.
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urroner
Unless your name is CoachK, the leader on the prognosticating venue, I'll take everything you said with a grain of salt.



Who are the players who will be playing in the game who weren't in the first three games? If Bronco can get the players to stop committing some really dum bass penalties and if the OL can hold the line for a couple of seconds more, I really think that this will be a breakout game, but maybe I'm hoping for a bit too much.



Having Komoner in for the whole game will help a lot.



BTW, the phrase "taken with a grain of salt" has an interesting beginning. For the infallible, omniscient wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_of_salt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):


"(With) a grain of salt," (or "a pinch of salt") is an idiom which means to view something with skepticism, or to not take it literally.



History

Theories of the phrase's origin include Pliny the Elder's Naturalis Historia, regarding the discovery of a recipe for an antidote to a poison. In the antidote, one of the ingredients was a grain of salt. Threats involving the poison were thus to be taken "with a grain of salt", and therefore less seriously.



The Latin phrase cum grano salis ("with a grain of salt") is not what Pliny wrote. It is constructed according to the grammar of modern European languages rather than Classical Latin. Pliny's actual words were addito salis grano ("after having added a grain of salt").



An alternative account says that the Roman general Pompey believed he could make himself immune to poison by ingesting small amounts of various poisons, and he took this treatment with a grain of salt to help him swallow the poison. In this version, the salt is not the antidote. It was taken merely to assist in swallowing the poison.



The Latin word salis means both "salt" and "wit", so that the Latin phrase "cum grano salis" could be translated as both "with a grain of salt" and "with a grain (small amount) of wit".
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NDCougar
Yzzazz wrote:
I would take the over. ... UVA has a tough defense and not a great offense.


Funny how you feel like you'd pick the over, but recognize UVA has defense. Since cougs strength has been its defense so far, it doesn't seem reasonable to bet the over. But the line agrees with you. Oddsmakers expect a lot of offense in this game.



Personally I think a shootout favors the cougs. I don't think Virginia can keep up. That scenario probably ends 48-31 for BYU.


I am not saying UVA has a shutdown defense but putting up only 31-28 points is where I think it shakes out; which is less then BYU scored in the first few games against worse defenses than we will play Saturday. You tack on 20'ish/plus points for UVA, which they will score more than UConn and UT (both horrid on offense).......put it in a blender and I take the over.



Personally, I think BYU's defense is worse than we think given the offenses we have played. UH had an ok offense, and showed we are not unstoppable on defense. I am not saying we have a bad defense but certainly BYU does not have a shut down defense vs good competition. UVA putting up 20 is not a stretch by any means.



A shootout absolutely favors BYU, no question. A grind it out game is what BYU has struggled with in the past. My fear is BYU can't move the ball, TH scrambles too much and is pressured on throws.....he will turn it over in this situation. If BYU get in a groove on offense I don't think we lose.
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urroner
Yzzazz wrote:
The betting line of BYU -14/48 actually predicts a 31-17 win.


Doh!



I should quit helping my kids with their math homework.


Are your kids doing the common core math?
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Yzzazz
urroner wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
The betting line of BYU -14/48 actually predicts a 31-17 win.


Doh!



I should quit helping my kids with their math homework.


Are your kids doing the common core math?


Yeah. That makes it easy for me.



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YNot
31-17 sounds like a pretty decent prediction. The 31-17 prediction accounts for the turnover margin favoring Virginia.



Turnovers are the only reason why BYU doesn't blowout Virginia. But, Virginia's defense is one of the best in takeaways, so this has to be a huge focus for the Cougars on Saturday. If BYU has 3+ turnovers and gives Virginia defensive scores or short-field situations, that is how Virginia wins this game.
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NDCougar
Also worth pointing out this is UVA's first time on the road this year, which could be a variable.
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Schmoe
I don't see what's so offensive about 31-17. The bettors should get thicker skins.
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Cougarbib
YNot wrote:
31-17 sounds like a pretty decent prediction. The 31-17 prediction accounts for the turnover margin favoring Virginia.



Turnovers are the only reason why BYU doesn't blowout Virginia. But, Virginia's defense is one of the best in takeaways, so this has to be a huge focus for the Cougars on Saturday. If BYU has 3+ turnovers and gives Virginia defensive scores or short-field situations, that is how Virginia wins this game.


tried to give you a +1 on this comment, but it does not work on my phone today even though it usually does, which must mean Hawk does not agree with you and has blocked your thumbs up button on this comment. ;)



But yes. Turnovers. Punting. Special Teams. Field position. Virginia will need short field situations, pick sixes, big returns, or bad punts to win. Conversely, if BYU wins those battles - BLOWOUT.



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Cougs_Rule
Cougarbib wrote:
31-17 sounds like a pretty decent prediction. The 31-17 prediction accounts for the turnover margin favoring Virginia.



Turnovers are the only reason why BYU doesn't blowout Virginia. But, Virginia's defense is one of the best in takeaways, so this has to be a huge focus for the Cougars on Saturday. If BYU has 3+ turnovers and gives Virginia defensive scores or short-field situations, that is how Virginia wins this game.


tried to give you a +1 on this comment, but it does not work on my phone today even though it usually does, which must mean Hawk does not agree with you and has blocked your thumbs up button on this comment. ;)



But yes. Turnovers. Punting. Special Teams. Field position. Virginia will need short field situations, pick sixes, big returns, or bad punts to win. Conversely, if BYU wins those battles - BLOWOUT.



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+2! Turnovers are the key. If THill (and Anae) will be patient and keep working on the passing game the score may look like Texas 6-0, but the second half can turn into a blow out as their D wears down.
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DeVon
Everybody has been pointing out that Virginia's defense is really good, and I agree. I am wondering, however, if they are really better than Texas' defense? I would submit that Texas' front 7 at home is as good as or better than Virginia's front 7 on the road. I think a rested Taysom Hill is going to perform well this weekend and by the 3rd quarter the Virginia defense is going to start to give up large chunks.



I'm going to say 38-20 BYU.
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mizzoucoug
Yzzazz wrote:



Sure Apo and Kurtz could have breakout games, or Jamal could run circles around an elevation-surprised Virginia team.


Thumbs up on your points but why do Apo and Kurtz come up as part of your commentary? Apo is a scrub and Kurtz is out a couple more weeks. LOL



UVA wins games by getting turnovers. And then they score with short fields. Even if we punt the ball more than usual that's better than giving them short fields. UVA will not score a point on us if they start on their side of the field. Their offense is just as bad as it was last year.



UVA had one TD drive vs Louisville that was 69 yards. The other TD was just 15 yards off a pick.



UVA had one TD drive vs UCLA that was 75 yards and another that began at their own 41.



UVA had a bunch vs an FCS team, which doesn't count in my mind.




I am only slightly worried about this game because UVA cannot stop us from scoring 21 at least. And if we don't turn the ball over than I guarantee a shutout.
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stuckinbig10country
mizzoucoug wrote:



Sure Apo and Kurtz could have breakout games, or Jamal could run circles around an elevation-surprised Virginia team.


Thumbs up on your points but why do Apo and Kurtz come up as part of your commentary? Apo is a scrub and Kurtz is out a couple more weeks. LOL



UVA wins games by getting turnovers. And then they score with short fields. Even if we punt the ball more than usual that's better than giving them short fields. UVA will not score a point on us if they start on their side of the field. Their offense is just as bad as it was last year.



UVA had one TD drive vs Louisville that was 69 yards. The other TD was just 15 yards off a pick.



UVA had one TD drive vs UCLA that was 75 yards and another that began at their own 41.



UVA had a bunch vs an FCS team, which doesn't count in my mind.




I am only slightly worried about this game because UVA cannot stop us from scoring 21 at least. And if we don't turn the ball over than I guarantee a shutout.


UVA is undefeated right now if they don't turn the ball over. Their defense is really good. Texas' front 7 is probably relatively close to UVA, but UVA's DB's are better (if not athletically, then technically).



Sure, their offense isn't great, but their defense is.
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stuckinbig10country
mizzoucoug wrote:



Sure Apo and Kurtz could have breakout games, or Jamal could run circles around an elevation-surprised Virginia team.


Thumbs up on your points but why do Apo and Kurtz come up as part of your commentary? Apo is a scrub and Kurtz is out a couple more weeks. LOL



UVA wins games by getting turnovers. And then they score with short fields. Even if we punt the ball more than usual that's better than giving them short fields. UVA will not score a point on us if they start on their side of the field. Their offense is just as bad as it was last year.



UVA had one TD drive vs Louisville that was 69 yards. The other TD was just 15 yards off a pick.



UVA had one TD drive vs UCLA that was 75 yards and another that began at their own 41.



UVA had a bunch vs an FCS team, which doesn't count in my mind.




I am only slightly worried about this game because UVA cannot stop us from scoring 21 at least. And if we don't turn the ball over than I guarantee a shutout.


UVA is undefeated right now if they don't turn the ball over. Their defense is really good. Texas' front 7 is probably relatively close to UVA, but UVA's DB's are better (if not athletically, then technically).



Sure, their offense isn't great, but their defense is.
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NDCougar
DeVon wrote:
Everybody has been pointing out that Virginia's defense is really good, and I agree. I am wondering, however, if they are really better than Texas' defense? I would submit that Texas' front 7 at home is as good as or better than Virginia's front 7 on the road. I think a rested Taysom Hill is going to perform well this weekend and by the 3rd quarter the Virginia defense is going to start to give up large chunks.



I'm going to say 38-20 BYU.


UVA's offense cannot be worse than UT's.......the Longhorn's offense put them in a not of holes and this puts the offense in a lot of holes too.



I don't think BYU puts up the same numbers as they did vs UT, BYU wore them out in the 2nd half.....UVA should keep the points down if they can keep their defense off the field.
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jonnylingo
NDCougar wrote:
NDCougar wrote:
I would take the over. ... UVA has a tough defense and not a great offense.


Funny how you feel like you'd pick the over, but recognize UVA has defense. Since cougs strength has been its defense so far, it doesn't seem reasonable to bet the over. But the line agrees with you. Oddsmakers expect a lot of offense in this game.



Personally I think a shootout favors the cougs. I don't think Virginia can keep up. That scenario probably ends 48-31 for BYU.


I am not saying UVA has a shutdown defense but putting up only 31-28 points is where I think it shakes out; which is less then BYU scored in the first few games against worse defenses than we will play Saturday. You tack on 20'ish/plus points for UVA, which they will score more than UConn and UT (both horrid on offense).......put it in a blender and I take the over.



Personally, I think BYU's defense is worse than we think given the offenses we have played. UH had an ok offense, and showed we are not unstoppable on defense. I am not saying we have a bad defense but certainly BYU does not have a shut down defense vs good competition. UVA putting up 20 is not a stretch by any means.



A shootout absolutely favors BYU, no question. A grind it out game is what BYU has struggled with in the past. My fear is BYU can't move the ball, TH scrambles too much and is pressured on throws.....he will turn it over in this situation. If BYU get in a groove on offense I don't think we lose.


I don't see UVA getting to 20. Their offense isn't good enough, even if our defense, as you say, is worse than we think. UVA only gets there if we turn it over as much as the their opponents have the past few games. UVA doesn't get to 20 against louisville without extremely good field position given to them by turnovers.
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