The exciting thing about Riley possibly being the starter...

I'm technically not rooting for any QB right now. At this point, I'm just pretty confident that whoever rises to the top of the QB battles that will commence in the spring and continue throughout the summer will be able to guide us to at least an 8 win season.



Obviously I think Jake Heaps is a better fit for BYU's current system and is undoubtedly the better passer. But Riley's mobility is a very exciting tool to have in the chest too. That said, Jake can tuck it and run if he has to also. But if Riley's career to date has taught us anything it's that he can effectively set up the pass with his legs. He'd be an absolute terror in the option or out of a bootleg. Think Dalton but potentially even more potent.



Now the thing that gets me excited the most about Riley is, and Anae has even said as much, that the offense will have to change considerably to maximize his strengths. IF he wins the job, BYU would be throwing a whole new offensive package on the field that the Yewts and Frogs haven't seen from the Cougars before and would once again give us that edge like we had in 2005-2007. Lately though, our two toughest in-conference rivals have been right in our heads when it comes to knowing our offensive tendencies. I'd love to see another 2001 version of the Cougar offense make a comeback for a few years.



Again if Riley did win, Jake could then redshirt and run the scout team while Lark or Munns plays backup. Then in 2012 after Nelson graduates (unless someone just steps up and steals the job), you've got a Lark, a RS, Munns, a RJ, and Heaps, a RS unless he decides on a mission. And at that point, BYU would be an absolute force to be reckoned with when all Bronco's talented recruits from the last few years really start to make their mark on the program.



But Riley could mix it up just enough to really put Yewtah and TCU back on their heels. And hit them with a little bit of their own medicine fore a change.

Honest Question: So are we just assuming that Heaps can't scramble?

Heaps can scramble. But so could Detmer. Nelson can run, much like Young. Both were very effective in essentially the same offense. I don't think the QB next year will make a difference in wins and losses. I think we win the same number of games with either QB. Because of that, I'd like to see Riley start. I think that would allow Heaps more time to develop and be that much better when he takes over as a RS SO and have three years to start.

Italics wrote:
Honest Question: So are we just assuming that Heaps can't scramble?

I said that he's shown he has the ability. And he actually has pretty decent speed.

gmj81 wrote:
...That said, Jake can tuck it and run if he has to also...

Jake just chooses to make plays the majority of the time with his arm rather than his legs.



John Beck could have been a decent "running" QB, and at times showed his wheels. He probably had 4.6-4.7 speed which isn't bad for a QB. He showed it a lot more during the early years of his career though. It also was the source of a nice concussion or two for him. But he was capable of standing in the pocket and making plays with his arm so he didn't rely on it much if ever.



When you've got a guy like Tebow who is as big as a LB and can absorb all those hits that's great, but we've seen what happens when teams force Tebow to beat them with his arm. Then you've got a guy like Vince Young, who until really the end of his junior season

had the same problem before he starting becoming more efficient with his use of the run and pass. By the end of his senior year, teams who tried to make him beat them with his arm got torched and when they tried to pressure his passes got lit up on the ground. But there's not a lot of guys around like VY.

The question I have is can Riley throw it worth a darn, and read a defense. So far, not sure I love what I have seen in that regard. Yes, he can run it. But do we want to become a spread option team? If Harvey is back, maybe. Without him, not sure it will work unless Nelson can challenge teams with his arm.

Lawboy wrote:
The question I have is can Riley throw it worth a darn, and read a defense. So far, not sure I love what I have seen in that regard. Yes, he can run it. But do we want to become a spread option team? If Harvey is back, maybe. Without him, not sure it will work unless Nelson can challenge teams with his arm.

This is the key question that all Cougar-dom is asking themselves about next year. Our initial returns on this question have been questionable at best.

The reason Doman worked so well was because he could run it great, had a stud RB behind him, but he could also make the throws. If Riley can make the throws and Harvey stays, it could be like 2001. Even if Harvey goes and a freshman steps in, it could be like 2001. But only if Nelson can make the throws. If not, he is just like that Utah QB who thought he had the job, and later transferred. Gotta make throws .

The times that Riley has ran the team during mop up duty this year, he has dropped back, looked for his primary reciever and then ran if that option was not open. I kept wanting to see him throw to see how well he could do it. I never really saw him do anything impressive with his arm this year. Having said that, he did get the team down the field for some scores during mop up this year which is pretty impressive in and of itself. I am sure that whoever wins the job next year is going to be a major drop off from what we have been used to during the Beck/Hall years. I just hope that our spoiled fans will have the patience to let a young QB grow into the job or if they are all going to start calling for the back up after a couple incompletions or interceptions (anyone remember loser fans calling for Riley over hall earlier this year?)

I don't see it being much of a step down - perhaps a step up - with Heaps. I suppose he will probably be shaky his first year, but we really need to invest all of our resources into this kid.

The USC kid was the #1 recruit nationally, and he struggled this year. True freshman at QB are NOT the answer. In the history of CFB, the list of true freshman to lead teams to great season is very short. Anyone expecting Heaps to keep it rolling next year is crazy. I hope they redshirt him.

I don't understand why so many people are already writing off Riley as a passer based on 10 pass attempts over the course of the season, especially when he went 7/10 with 9+ yards per attempt with zero turnovers.



Riley was inserted in garbage time. You have three objectives as a quarterback in garbage time--get first downs, run down the clock, and don't turn the ball over--after you do the basic three, any scoring you can do is just gravy. Riley was phenomenal in those aspects. He did everything the coaches wanted him to do. He got first downs, he ran down the clock, and he didn't turn the ball over, and the offense scored. Given those three objectives, the smart thing to do in garbage time is make one or two reads, and if neither of them are wide open, tuck and run to avoid (a) a sack, (b) a fumble from holding on too long, (c) an incompletion that stops the clock, or (d) a pick from forcing a pass where it isn't meant to go.



Riley Nelson can get the ball where it needs to go--BYU is not in the business of offering scholarships to running quarterbacks. That simply was not his function this year--he was a game manager, not a game winner.



I'm not ready to crown Nelson the starter, but I am even more hesitant to crown a true freshman the starter before he has even stepped foot on the practice field. Less than of the top 15 quarterbacks from the high school class of 2005 ever started a college football game---its a completely different animal. Just ask Ben Olsen.

CougarClaw wrote:

The question I have is can Riley throw it worth a darn, and read a defense. So far, not sure I love what I have seen in that regard. Yes, he can run it. But do we want to become a spread option team? If Harvey is back, maybe. Without him, not sure it will work unless Nelson can challenge teams with his arm.

This is the key question that all Cougar-dom is asking themselves about next year. Our initial returns on this question have been questionable at best.

From what I saw when he did play, the answer is no.

snoscythe wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are already writing off Riley as a passer based on 10 pass attempts over the course of the season, especially when he went 7/10 with 9+ yards per attempt with zero turnovers.



Riley was inserted in garbage time. You have three objectives as a quarterback in garbage time--get first downs, run down the clock, and don't turn the ball over--after you do the basic three, any scoring you can do is just gravy. Riley was phenomenal in those aspects. He did everything the coaches wanted him to do. He got first downs, he ran down the clock, and he didn't turn the ball over, and the offense scored. Given those three objectives, the smart thing to do in garbage time is make one or two reads, and if neither of them are wide open, tuck and run to avoid (a) a sack, (b) a fumble from holding on too long, (c) an incompletion that stops the clock, or (d) a pick from forcing a pass where it isn't meant to go.



Riley Nelson can get the ball where it needs to go--BYU is not in the business of offering scholarships to running quarterbacks. That simply was not his function this year--he was a game manager, not a game winner.



I'm not ready to crown Nelson the starter, but I am even more hesitant to crown a true freshman the starter before he has even stepped foot on the practice field. Less than of the top 15 quarterbacks from the high school class of 2005 ever started a college football game---its a completely different animal. Just ask Ben Olsen.

I am not writing him off. And I don't dispute your points. Despite those however Riley made throws in garbage time and he missed his open guys. I believe it was the wyoming game that sticks out most in my mind.



People said he passed well in high school. And i agree with a point made earlier that byu wouldn't pick him up if he couldn't throw.



Interesting spring ball we have coming up.

jonnylingo wrote:
I am not writing him off. And I don't dispute your points. Despite those however Riley made throws in garbage time and he missed his open guys. I believe it was the wyoming game that sticks out most in my mind.

I don't know how many open guys a kid can miss when he completes 7/10 passes for the season. At most, he missed 3 open guys.



Riley did not attempt a pass in the Wyoming game. The only game in which he threw an incompletion was TCU.

snoscythe wrote:

I am not writing him off. And I don't dispute your points. Despite those however Riley made throws in garbage time and he missed his open guys. I believe it was the wyoming game that sticks out most in my mind.

I don't know how many open guys a kid can miss when he completes 7/10 passes for the season. At most, he missed 3 open guys.



Riley did not attempt a pass in the Wyoming game. The only game in which he threw an incompletion was TCU.

Right, it was the TCU game not they Wyoming game. Through that whole game the guys behind me were yelling max sucks put nelson in all game long so I was watching intently to see how he did. I believe he missed every pass he threw in that game and his guys were open. I don't have any memory of him throwing in other games but obviously his performance in those games throwing was better than in the tcu game if he was 7/10 overall.

Lawboy wrote:
But do we want to become a spread option team?

You need more than a QB and a RB to run a spread option. Our linemen our comparitively huge and built to pass block. Our running back is a pounding Poly who's north/south skills outweigh his east/west skills. There is a reason why Air Force runs the option and cut blocks, their line is small. I think we'd be asking a lot of Reynolds and others to run block more than we do and do it way more laterally than now.



I agree that the best QB will rise to the top and be chosen by the coaches. I wouldn't mind a 70/30 split between Heaps the starter and Nelson as a change up. I typically hate a two QB system but the two contrasting styles, not to mention the D1 inexperience of Heaps, might help both.

snoscythe wrote:
I don't understand why so many people are already writing off Riley as a passer based on 10 pass attempts over the course of the season, especially when he went 7/10 with 9+ yards per attempt with zero turnovers.

he did throw a pick...



fortunately for him it was pulled back by a defensive penalty and the coaches ran the rest of the game.



I know it doesn't count, but that's what I remember about his passing ability.

CougarClaw wrote:

I don't understand why so many people are already writing off Riley as a passer based on 10 pass attempts over the course of the season, especially when he went 7/10 with 9+ yards per attempt with zero turnovers.

he did throw a pick...



fortunately for him it was pulled back by a defensive penalty and the coaches ran the rest of the game.



I know it doesn't count, but that's what I remember about his passing ability.

The other side of the coin is this--does he throw the pick if the defender that hurried him hadn't had the advantage of being offsides? I'm not saying he doesn't, but there is a reason they replay those downs.

CougarClaw wrote:

I don't understand why so many people are already writing off Riley as a passer based on 10 pass attempts over the course of the season, especially when he went 7/10 with 9+ yards per attempt with zero turnovers.

he did throw a pick...



fortunately for him it was pulled back by a defensive penalty and the coaches ran the rest of the game.



I know it doesn't count, but that's what I remember about his passing ability.

Way to focus on the one bad throw. Personally, I thought Riley was quite impressive on the touchdown drive he led against Florida St where he was 3 of 3 for 59 yards and a score. I knew then that he could run the offense next year as a throwing QB.

I'm not sold either way. While Riley may have completed some passes, to me it looked like he was shot putting the ball down the field. Seriously ugly stuff coming out of his hand. But then again, Detmer threw a lot of ducks too, so that doesn't say everything.



On the other hand, Heaps film makes him look like Beck--but its against high school competition. If he is as good as everyone expects him to be, and we aren't expecting more than 7 or 8 wins next year with whoever starts, then why not start him and see what he can do. Sure, Barkley had a bad year, but so do lots of Freshman QBs. The key is not whether Heaps will not take us to a 10 win season next year, but will he give us the best chance to win each game, and will starting him damage him if the season does not go well. As long as having a rough first season will not damage his confidence and as long as Riley would not give us a better chance to win more games, I would have no hesitation to start Heaps.



And we haven't even discussed whether or not Munns or Lark could step it up this spring and show something.



Hence, I think it will come down to Spring Practice, I trust that our coaches will make the right call for the program next year and the future.