Kate Kelly Excommunicated

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865605646/LDS-bishop-excommunicates-Ordain-Women-founder.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" . . . our determination is that you be excommunicated for conduct contrary to the laws and order of the Church. This means that you may not wear temple garments or contribute tithes and offerings. You may not take the sacrament, hold a church calling, give a talk in church, offer a public prayer in behalf of the class or congregation in a church meeting, or vote in the sustaining of church officers. These conditions almost always last at least one year. If you show true repentance and satisfy the conditions imposed below while you are no longer a member, you may be readmitted by baptism and confirmation.



"In order to be considered for readmission to the church, you will need to demonstrate over a period of time that you have stopped teachings and actions that undermine the church, its leaders, and the doctrine of the priesthood. You must be truthful in your communications with others regarding matters that involve your priesthood leaders, including the administration of church discipline, and you must stop trying to gain a following for yourself or your cause and taking actions that could lead others away from the church."

I made the mistake of perusing the comments section of the Trib on this same story. So many haters it's unbelievable. And when a hater gets on a roll, facts mean nothing.



I wish I could've made the candlelight vigil at my stake center last night, but the Bishop advised us all against it.

I love candles. Candles are so pretty. ;)

Pray that she finds humility through this and is able to rediscover her faith in the Lord, but am also happy that this circus is over and her fifteen minutes are up.

This whole episode makes me incredibly sad. I never want to see anyone leave the church (by choice, or by discipline, or any other reason).



I have read so much from both sides, and, unfortunately, there is a tremendous amount of half truth and twisted logic from Sister Kelly and OW. The "sameness" doctrine is one I don't understand. The concept that one cannot understand another unless they are "the same" is in direct opposition to the idea of empathy I was taught in the MTC and have tried to incorporate into my life.



I also don't understand how one can state belief in/testimmony of the church, then discount ideas like common judgeship, gifts of discernment, and relevation for area of stewardship.



truly a sad day for the Kelly family. I wish them well and hope Sister Kelly can find her way back to the strait and narrow path.

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at least she's not one fopr Hyperbole....



She plans to appeal, and bristled at the notion that church discipline is done out of love.

“That’s classic language of an abusive relationship, where a person abusing and hurting you says that they’re doing it out of love,” she said.

She's fighting to stay in the relationship that she just indicated was an abusive one?

ABYUFAN wrote:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us/Kate-Kelly-Mormon-Church-Excommunicates-Ordain-Women-Founder.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LargeMediaHeadlineSum&module=photo-spot-region&region=photo-spot&WT.nav=photo-spot&_r=2&referrer=



at least she's not one fopr Hyperbole....



She plans to appeal, and bristled at the notion that church discipline is done out of love.

“That’s classic language of an abusive relationship, where a person abusing and hurting you says that they’re doing it out of love,” she said.

She's fighting to stay in the relationship that she just indicated was an abusive one?

I bristle (not really) at the notion that you can run the Church of Jesus Christ by protesting and popular opinion. I take it that she thinks she can end the abuse if she and her associates can tell the rest of us how to run the Lord's church. Wait, isn't that abuse?

Mark me down as one that doesn't feel bad or sad for this woman. The arrogance she has shown through this process is astounding. That she feigns surprise at the outcome is hilarious and she makes a mockery of a very sensitive process.



If anything, I hope this serves as a wake up call to the otherwise faithful feminist mormon housewives who have joined Ordain Women.

Well she is an attorney and using all of her skill to sway people to her side.



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nuk13, CAFB, Scott, I agree with you guys here. I find it difficult to empathise with someone who is being deliberately duplicitous. I observed the same thing from Sonja Johnson in the Eighties. Both of these individuals professed to value their church membership while sticking their thumb in the church's eye. They seemed to be using their "dismay" over their ex-communications as a means to deliver a further PR "black eye" to the Church, loudly proclaiming it to be cruel and intolerant in their cases.. They both seemed to regard the church as a secular club that votes on its own by-laws, in denial of its devine source of guidance. They are duplicitous in acting as though they are religiously devoted to the church, while denying its devine origins.



Finally, the unmitigated arrogance in their perserverence to become some kind of "Joan of Arc" for the history books. If this church is as fundamentally incorrect as she proposes, why does she need this "false church?" She can separate and form her own organization and then exact her own expectations upon it.



Of course, for the sake of charity, we hope for all of God's children to humble themselves and come home.



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I don't know most of Sonja Johnson's story but I heard her speak at CSUN after she was exed. I have never felt a worst spirit. Kate now no longer has the gift of the holy ghost. She will have a hard time not letting the evil one from filling the void now that he is gone. I think this is the worst part of being exed.

Boid, thank you for clarifying. I sure agree with your post. It's what I thought I was saying. I remember Johnson and have mentioned her. I haven't heard a peep from her since her brief time in the spotlight. Kelly sure seems on the same page as johnson. One of my original questions was about starting their own church. I forgot about a buddy of mine. He told me he had friends that wanted to marry so he went on line and got a minister's license. Nothing that I know of would stop these people from doing that. The question is why don't they? My assumption is they want 15 million followers not the hundreds, or maybe thousands they have because the rest of us would stay with the Lord and his prophet including the vast majority of our lovely sisters.

ABYUFAN wrote:
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at least she's not one fopr Hyperbole....



She plans to appeal, and bristled at the notion that church discipline is done out of love.

“That’s classic language of an abusive relationship, where a person abusing and hurting you says that they’re doing it out of love,” she said.

She's fighting to stay in the relationship that she just indicated was an abusive one?

This is where I lost all sympathy for her. Every disciplinary council I've been in has been dominated by the Spirit, love and hope. But then, those people were repentant... That she completely dismisses the concept of church discipline without even participating in her disciplinary council is a slap in the face for not just her leaders, but all the local leaders all over the world who rely on the Spirit to guide them in disciplinary matters.

SCRIPTURES OF THE DAY:

2 Nephi 9:28-29



"O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God."



QUOTE OF THE DAY:

Ezra Taft Benson



"The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich. The learned may feel the prophet is only inspired when he agrees with them; otherwise, the prophet is just giving his opinion-speaking as a man. The rich may feel they have no need to take counsel of a lowly prophet" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 138).

I've been reading CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, and found this passage to be extremely topical (written by a demon to another demon about leading humanity astray, for those who are unfamiliar with the book):



"Now if we can keep men asking 'Is it in accordance with the general movement of our time? Is it progressive or reactionary? Is this the way that History is going?' they will neglect the relevant questions."

Schmoe wrote:
I've been reading CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, and found this passage to be extremely topical (written by a demon to another demon about leading humanity astray, for those who are unfamiliar with the book):



"Now if we can keep men asking 'Is it in accordance with the general movement of our time? Is it progressive or reactionary? Is this the way that History is going?' they will neglect the relevant questions."

I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

BoiseBYU wrote:

I've been reading CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, and found this passage to be extremely topical (written by a demon to another demon about leading humanity astray, for those who are unfamiliar with the book):



"Now if we can keep men asking 'Is it in accordance with the general movement of our time? Is it progressive or reactionary? Is this the way that History is going?' they will neglect the relevant questions."

I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

While we're at it....



“We must picture hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives with the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment.”

The excommunication of Kate Kelly is both tragic for her personally, and very illustrative for us. Kate Kelly is no dummy. She's a hard working, committed, international human rights attorney. So, to be fair, and understand Kate Kelly's perspective - you have to understand her life's work. To give voice to people that have no voice, and help those that are abused and down-trodden.



The laudable work that Kate Kelly does is the springboard for her wrongheaded activism. I was impressed with the letter her bishop (Bishop Mark Harrison) wrote and sent to Kate Kelly. The problem was not that she had questions - or doubts. We all have questions and doubts about something in the Church at sometime in out life. The problem was her active, aggressive effort to convert others to her point of view - and - that she would not stop her aggressive recruiting/conversion/PR campaign effort to convince everyone and anyone that she was right - and the Church was wrong.



IMHO, the problem with Kate Kelly was not her questioning or having internal doubts. The problem was, Kate Kelly decided to take it upon herself to "steady the Ark" in an aggressive and public way. Ultimately, at some point Kate Kelly "jumped the shark" and crossed over from personally wrestling with trying to understand God's commandments and laws, to forcefully changing the doctrine and practices of the LDS Church to fit her notions and correct perceived sleights. As bright as she is - Kate Kelly became stubbornly wrongheaded.



Personally having doubts and wrestling with your beliefs is a good thing. Joseph Smith used that same personal struggle to lead him to the Sacred Grove in 1820 and discover truth. Those personal struggles that we all have, if done the right way, the Lord's way, will lead to greater understanding and personal growth. When we abandon the private search for greater truth and understanding, and instead get caught up in an ego driven, public debate intended to "force a hand" with pressure, rather than internally grow; one ends up where Kate Kelly is now.



I don't know what the future holds for Kate Kelly. Presently, she has given every indication she will play the victim and remain intransigent in her views and behavior. It's possible Kate Kelly will back off and stop trying to steady the Ark. It's possible she'll realize how wrongheaded and destructive the path is that she is on. It's possible. But, I think it's going to take years for Kate Kelly to realize how wrong her course is. I think she'll slowly get her head right during those quiet moments when she is alone with the Lord and honest with herself. I hope she decides to change her current course.

BoiseBYU wrote:
I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

The phrase "be true to oneself," to me, can mean one of two different things.



Firstly, it could mean "I am who I am and I have to be me." Okay, so if I'm a serial killer, is it okay to be true to myself? I think that this interpretation follows the line of "boys will be boys," it's just an excuse to do what we want to do and we don't want to feel guilty about it.



Somewhere in there, the scripture about the natural man being an enemy to God comes into play.



The second definition, and the one I like, is "I have to be truthful/honest with myself about who I am." IOW, I have to see how my actions line up with principles of righteousness and if they don't align, then I've got to make changes because principles of righteousness don't change.

urroner wrote:

I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

The phrase "be true to oneself," to me, can mean one of two different things.



Firstly, it could mean "I am who I am and I have to be me." Okay, so if I'm a serial killer, is it okay to be true to myself? I think that this interpretation follows the line of "boys will be boys," it's just an excuse to do what we want to do and we don't want to feel guilty about it.



Somewhere in there, the scripture about the natural man being an enemy to God comes into play.



The second definition, and the one I like, is "I have to be truthful/honest with myself about who I am." IOW, I have to see how my actions line up with principles of righteousness and if they don't align, then I've got to make changes because principles of righteousness don't change.

I've always hated that phrase. Maybe it's because that was Paula Abdul's go-to line on AI back in the day...it just screams moral relativism when used in other contexts. You do what you feel is right is a brilliant ploy on Satan's part and effectively taps into the natural man's tendency to believe he is always in the right.