New Division IV?

This would be very interesting to see how this plays out. If this did happen and BYU was left out (which at the moment is the case) this would be VERY bad.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2014/05/30/sec-meetings-mike-slive-ncaa-governance-reform-autonomy/9780933/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What makes you think BYU could not elect to comply with the various mandates of a new Division IV and thereby be a Division IV school (i.e. meet athlete payment thresholds, attendance levels, or other requirements)? When I read Division IV related articles I actually felt this might be a chance for BYU to affiliate with big boys. Was I wrong?

dsmith1212 wrote:
What makes you think BYU could not elect to comply with the various mandates of a new Division IV and thereby be a Division IV school (i.e. meet athlete payment thresholds, attendance levels, or other requirements)? When I read Division IV related articles I actually felt this might be a chance for BYU to affiliate with big boys. Was I wrong?

Not sure if I was wrong, but I assumed it was driven by the P5 conferences to do what they want (re: keeping their revenues and paying athletes) and exclude others. I hope you are correct........clearly this would be a positive for BYU if we would be included. The article even discussed leaving the NCAA all together.



Anyone have better insights on this than me? I am by no means an expert on this.



All articles such as the article above and the article below refer to the P5 conferences and don't discuss other schools like BYU.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2014/05/13/ncaa-governance-restructuring-power-five-autonomy-vote-supermajority/9014283/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think people are confusing the statements earlier about "a BYU game not counting as the P5 opponent requirement for the ACC and SEC starting in 2017" as "BYU is not and never will be considered a P5 school". As an independent, BYU is not in a P5 conference. But that doesn't mean BYU could meet the requirements of a new Division IV requirement--unless they build something in that says you must be a member of an existing P5 conference to meet that classification.

Fido wrote:
I think people are confusing the statements earlier about "a BYU game not counting as the P5 opponent requirement for the ACC and SEC starting in 2017" as "BYU is not and never will be considered a P5 school". As an independent, BYU is not in a P5 conference. But that doesn't mean BYU could meet the requirements of a new Division IV requirement--unless they build something in that says you must be a member of an existing P5 conference to meet that classification.

Helpful, thank you.



Any particular focus when evaluating who will be in Division IV? Everything I read surrounds the P5 conferences and I don't feel good about them adding other schools to the mix.



Personally (I know it won't happen) I would love to see the NCAA blow up and top dollar schools start a new entity. If we are looking at dollars and "butts in the seats" BYU should easily compete. No they are not a UT, ND, Michigan, OSU, USC, Oregon, OU and SEC teams etc but they are likely better financially than lower tier P5 schools (WSU, Utah, Iowa State, Northwestern, WF) with better national presence.



If played right it could turn out ok, I am not optimistic. My view is the P5 will try to exclude as many schools as possible (why share the pot), too much needs to happen to blow up the entire entity, BYU causes challenges given the Sunday rule (all sports but football). My guess is we see tweaks but no major changes and BYU is in a similar position.

This from another current thread:



"Also not in the news, last week when asked at the Coaches Club dinner whether he thought BYU would be independent or in a conference five years from now, Holmoe did not hesitate to say in a conference and reaffirm BYU is ready to pay athletes to be competitive if that is the direction college football goes."



I assume that one of the major - if not most important - differentiating factors for a new Division IV will be payments to athletes. If Division IV does happen, I believe BYU will be in that division and welcome by all (except maybe the left coast liberals - aka PAC-12).

FWIW, if the big boys go to a Div IV, they will want some hamburger teams to make the jump with them so they can continue to rack up wins. If only the top 30 programs make the jump, they're going to beat each other up and the perceived quality of those programs will drop once they start incurring losses from a step up in schedule.



If Div IV becomes a reality, it will be open to anyone who can meet their financial, enrollment, attendance, and facilities criteria.

snoscythe wrote:
FWIW, if the big boys go to a Div IV, they will want some hamburger teams to make the jump with them so they can continue to rack up wins. If only the top 30 programs make the jump, they're going to beat each other up and the perceived quality of those programs will drop once they start incurring losses from a step up in schedule.



If Div IV becomes a reality, it will be open to anyone who can meet their financial, enrollment, attendance, and facilities criteria.

i.e. BYU would be in. Financial? Check. Enrollment? Check. Attendance? Check. Facilities? Check. Broadcast Linkage? Check. Check, Check, Checkmate.

The only problem I can foresee with a D IV would be getting ther required number of games. Right now to play in the post-season in D1 you have to beat 5 D1 teams, but you also have to play a certain number of D1 teams. I'm not sure how BYU could ensure enough games against opponents in the new division.

jvquarterback wrote:
The only problem I can foresee with a D IV would be getting ther required number of games. Right now to play in the post-season in D1 you have to beat 5 D1 teams, but you also have to play a certain number of D1 teams. I'm not sure how BYU could ensure enough games against opponents in the new division.

To Sno's point above, is not all the teams make the jump I cannot see how they keep all the conferences in place. Likely another re-alignment.

jvquarterback wrote:
The only problem I can foresee with a D IV would be getting ther required number of games. Right now to play in the post-season in D1 you have to beat 5 D1 teams, but you also have to play a certain number of D1 teams. I'm not sure how BYU could ensure enough games against opponents in the new division.

Just draw a chart of the teams and conferences in a new Division IV and include ND and BYU on the list. Each team will play the usual number of games in its conference and the usual number of games outside the conference. As we are already seeing with the SEC and ACC, the conferences want some of those games against other P5/DIV teams. Therefore, BYU should have no problem getting DIV games. Unless I am missing something, the net effect would be exactly the same as if BYU were "in" the P5/SEC/ACC mix today with one additional benefit - the PAC 12, Big 12, and Big 10 will be in the mix, too.

Tell me something. If the P5 split off to become Div 4, you will regulate them. If someone breaks a rule who will enforce it? Will it just become the Wild West with everyone doing what ever they want?

scott715 wrote:
Tell me something. If the P5 split off to become Div 4, you will regulate them. If someone breaks a rule who will enforce it? Will it just become the Wild West with everyone doing what ever they want?

I am sure there would be a new set of regulation and a regulatory body.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=12510906" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A poster named TheRealDudeofWV made this comment:



This August the 350 member institutions that comprise division 1 will vote to allow the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 12 and SEC to establish their own rules. One of the rules that will be changed is the rule that stipulates 12 members in separate divisions are required for the staging of a championship game.



That autonomy eliminates any incentive the Big 12 had to expand.



If this happens, BIG12 expansion becomes very iffy.