BYU will be a great team next year

Even without Carlino.

I will miss Carlino, however, I think he did BYU a favor. Guard is the position that BYU could most afford to lose a player.

The single factor that hurt BYU all year was the lack of enough quality big men. Once the two starters went out due to foul trouble (and they almost always did), BYU was forced to play 4 guards and a raw freshman, which worked well enough in most games, however, it cost us several games this year.

Next year, BYU will have more players to throw at the 4 and 5, this will keep them in games longer.

BYU will have multiple senior leaders, they will miss Carlino, however, in reality, BYU gains more by having stronger post players than it loses by losing him.

How do you figure that *guard*, and more specifically, POINT GUARD is the position that byu could afford most to lose a player?



Not attacking, honestly asking.



And I don't think we will be a great team (25+ wins). I don't even think we will be a **good** team (20+ wins). I think that we will be lucky to be an average team (14+ wins) and that most of those wins will come from the bottom rungs of a bad WCC. The only caveat here is if Fischer and/or Chattman can combine to give us what we lose with Matt transferring.



I would be happy to be wrong, but I am willing to put a bet of a good steak dinner on not being wrong.

I am planning on Collingsworth being available. He averaged 33 minutes per game. He played a lot of that as a 4 because our bigs couldn't stay out of foul trouble. With a better front line, he won't have to. It is a 7 minute per game problem. The rest of the production problem will be covered by the other guards. So, yes, it is a guard issue not a point guard issue.

I think I'm higher on Aytes than most people here. If we have a legit post scorer and some shooters then we're a tourney team. So, that's the question. Can Chatman and Fischer shoot 3's?

BYU will NOT be a great team next year. Maybe it will be good. But I doubt it will be just. average, 14 wins? When is the last time that happened? Exactly. Your a are a downer, dude.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
BYU will NOT be a great team next year. Maybe it will be good. But I doubt it will be just. average, 14 wins? When is the last time that happened? Exactly. Your a are a downer, dude.

Take away kcoll, mika, and carlino from this Last years team and where do you think we would have ended up? Somewhere in the 15 win range. It will be the same if kcoll isn't ready to go and we are missing those guys. You think differently? Put a burger on it.

Blue you forgot to all that is being added. We are going from 10 to 13 scholarship players. You subtracted but forgot to add and carry the one.

scott715 wrote:
Blue you forgot to all that is being added. We are going from 10 to 13 scholarship players. You subtracted but forgot to add and carry the one.

Shhhhh. Don't tell him that. Can I still get on the steak dinner list if we win 14+?



Rose has never won less than 20 and since the 98-99 season we only have 2 seasons below 20. An 18 win season and a 9 win season.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BYU will NOT be a great team next year. Maybe it will be good. But I doubt it will be just. average, 14 wins? When is the last time that happened? Exactly. Your a are a downer, dude.

Take away kcoll, mika, and carlino from this Last years team and where do you think we would have ended up? Somewhere in the 15 win range. It will be the same if kcoll isn't ready to go and we are missing those guys. You think differently? Put a burger on it.

downgraded from a steak? ok, you have a deal, burger it is. would love to chat hoops anyway. i most always agree and at least appreciate all your hoops posts.

I'll take that bet



If KC isn't ready to go and doesn't go... we still win more than 15 games (not many more)... we might not beat anyone away from home though



Tyler Haws is not chopped liver and we bring back an experienced squad... they wouldn't be dominant by any means but we'd still win 15 games...



it's all a moot point if KC returns healthy and on time then 15 is guaranteed and the real question will be NCAA vs NIT and that comes down to how well the young guys grow up and fit in

Steak or burger? I guess I said two things... It might have to be a Five Guys burger, because we don't have that out here, and I am missing it. They have In n Out which in my opinion isn't as good. (That is a thread all on it's own :) )



I know Haws isn't chopped liver, but if Kcoll can't go he is now the only focus for the other team, rather than worrying about Haws, Mika, Kcoll AND Carlino in game prep. There won't be anyone to get Haws the ball. No one has the court vision that Carlino did. Half of the reason that Haws got the ball in open space to shoot last year was because Carlino could read the ball screens and put the ball out there before Haws even got freed. There isn't anyone on the team that will have the basketball intelligence and passing to do that next year.



So I guess we would need to decided which phase of the bet we are betting on, because I threw 3 topics out there. I want to clarify this very CLEARLY, because if I don't then people like Cougarbib (whom I have on ignore, and never, ever view his topics) will come in and claim that I was stating something that I wasn't etc etc.)



My 3 points were:

- We don't get to 25+ wins no matter what (Great team status)

- We don't get to 20 wins without great contribution from the new guys, to replace what we are losing (not sure how to quantify this for the specifics of a bet).

- If Kcoll doesn't play major minutes, we don't win 15 games (without a Herculean effort from Aytes or Austin or Fischer or Chatman)

BlueIsBetter wrote:

I know Haws isn't chopped liver, but if Kcoll can't go he is now the only focus for the other team, rather than worrying about Haws, Mika, Kcoll AND Carlino in game prep. There won't be anyone to get Haws the ball. No one has the court vision that Carlino did. Half of the reason that Haws got the ball in open space to shoot last year was because Carlino could read the ball screens and put the ball out there before Haws even got freed. There isn't anyone on the team that will have the basketball intelligence and passing to do that next year.

I may be in the same boat. Perhaps I'm just a bit too bummed about the team right now, but should KC not make it back off his injury, I think we'll be right around 15 wins.



Austin - not a scoring threat and doubt after three years he'll suddenly become one.

Aytes - completely unproven at BYU, plus he doesn't play till January. The word from Las Vegas is that Aytes really wasn't that spectacular. UNLV was hardly lamenting his departure.

Winder - maybe, but when defenses clamped down on him in the post season he disappeared on offense.

Bartley - big question mark. There's potential there for him to chip 10+ points a game.

Sharp - not going to happen.

Halford - he'll do well against the smaller, less athletic teams. I don't seem him putting on 10 - 15 lbs.

Fischer - who knows.

Chatman - who knows. Hasn't played ball in two years and has never played D1 ball. To expect anything out of him at this point is wishful thinking.



The first priority for Rose in 2014/2015 should be defense. If this team can somehow become lock-down defenders than there's a chance. Rose is also going to have to get A LOT better at a half court set.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

Cougs_Rule wrote:
BYU will NOT be a great team next year. Maybe it will be good. But I doubt it will be just. average, 14 wins? When is the last time that happened? Exactly. Your a are a downer, dude.

Take away kcoll, mika, and carlino from this Last years team and where do you think we would have ended up? Somewhere in the 15 win range. It will be the same if kcoll isn't ready to go and we are missing those guys. You think differently? Put a burger on it.

downgraded from a steak? ok, you have a deal, burger it is. would love to chat hoops anyway. i most always agree and at least appreciate all your hoops posts.

Read the fine print. He added at least 2 caveats and then downgraded to a burger.



Caveats:



If newbie A and B add as much as we lost with Carlino. Figure out how to measure that.



If KC is gone. What if he isn't gone? Better get this bet clearly defined or get some caveats of your own in thete.



Sheesh. If KC is gone and the 2 new guys do not contribute, Blue is right.



I hate to be a ray of sunshine, but coming into this year, it was hard to find anyone other than me that thought KC would be a big factor. And Blue was one of the most negative.



I cannot predict injury recovery and can't get Chris C out of my memory even though the injury is different. I still can not get that image of KC with his leg folded back ......even though he played the next game.



But, I will predict this. Haws will be WCC first team again. The 2 slot will be improved. The bench guys coming back will be improved as will Austin. That is the starting minimum base. Newcomers and KC add to that.



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I guess I'm outside the consensus, I think BYU is going to have a special season next year. Not just good. Not just one and done in the NCAA. However, I have been expecting BYU to be undefeated in football almost every year for about 30 years so, buyer beware.

rblack wrote:
I guess I'm outside the consensus, I think BYU is going to have a special season next year. Not just good. Not just one and done in the NCAA. However, I have been expecting BYU to be undefeated in football almost every year for about 30 years so, buyer beware.

That's awesome. 8)

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Steak or burger? I guess I said two things... It might have to be a Five Guys burger, because we don't have that out here, and I am missing it. They have In n Out which in my opinion isn't as good. (That is a thread all on it's own :) )



I know Haws isn't chopped liver, but if Kcoll can't go he is now the only focus for the other team, rather than worrying about Haws, Mika, Kcoll AND Carlino in game prep. There won't be anyone to get Haws the ball. No one has the court vision that Carlino did. Half of the reason that Haws got the ball in open space to shoot last year was because Carlino could read the ball screens and put the ball out there before Haws even got freed. There isn't anyone on the team that will have the basketball intelligence and passing to do that next year.



So I guess we would need to decided which phase of the bet we are betting on, because I threw 3 topics out there. I want to clarify this very CLEARLY, because if I don't then people like Cougarbib (whom I have on ignore, and never, ever view his topics) will come in and claim that I was stating something that I wasn't etc etc.)



My 3 points were:

- We don't get to 25+ wins no matter what (Great team status)

- We don't get to 20 wins without great contribution from the new guys, to replace what we are losing (not sure how to quantify this for the specifics of a bet).

- If Kcoll doesn't play major minutes, we don't win 15 games (without a Herculean effort from Aytes or Austin or Fischer or Chatman)

I think Collinsworth saved you from buying burgers... however, we do win 15+ with or without him that is clear thus far. We are the legit #2 in the WCC this year and we will lose a few games for stupid reasons, but our depth wears on teams, our height off the bench is hiding some of the weaknesses we had last year when we had to go to sharp or kc at the 4 the moment mika and austin got in foul trouble.. and surprise surprise worthington is improved and giving us decent minutes.. he's not a world beater but he's a much smarter player than last season and has managed to be servicable at times.



The biggest reason though (other than our oustanding depth) that we win 15+ with or without kc is Fischer is a playmaker and doesn't turn the ball over ala Carlino. A second reason is Halford is much improved.

Well, when they stop playing teams outside of the top 150 we'll see. So far they aren't faring pretty well against SDSU at half.



We still need a point guard that can break the press and pass the ball. Our uptempo game is non-existent.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Well, when they stop playing teams outside of the top 150 we'll see. So far they aren't faring pretty well against SDSU at half.



We still need a point guard that can break the press and pass the ball. Our uptempo game is non-existent.

Seems like they ended up faring pretty dang well against #15 SDSU on a neutral floor. Loss in 2OT, should have won in OT if the refs figure out what is/isn't travelling or call the Haws takedown.

snoscythe wrote:

Well, when they stop playing teams outside of the top 150 we'll see. So far they aren't faring pretty well against SDSU at half.



We still need a point guard that can break the press and pass the ball. Our uptempo game is non-existent.

Seems like they ended up faring pretty dang well against #15 SDSU on a neutral floor. Loss in 2OT, should have won in OT if the refs figure out what is/isn't travelling or call the Haws takedown.

They did well enough to stay in the game. I don't think that SDSU is the 15th best team in the nation. They might be the 30th at this point, maybe 40th. It is nice to see that we can hang with teams. I don't see SDSU as being better than Gonzaga, and that is the goal, right now.