Jabari would have had a better year with us

Considering how Jabari went out, is there anyone that believes he wouldn't have accomplished more at BYU? We needed a stretch 4, Duke needed guards... He made the wrong basketball decision. Consider what we did without him... consider what we would have accomplished with him.



Hypothetically what would we have accomplished with him starting at the 4?



I think you could make a good argument for better than what Duke accomplished.

That's a scary thought actually. I think we probably lose 2 or 3 games at most with Jabari. At any given time we have at best 1.5 shooters on the floor (Haws + another guard who can kind of shoot). To add a 4 with range would make us very hard to beat.

Duke had him playing out of position all year. Coach K did something I've never seen him do before to get a recruit: basically just turned the team over to him.



Jabari could have been much better had he gone to a coach that would challenge him instead of just turning him loose.

If you compare what his goals were according the the SI article that came out the other month, had he gone to BYU he would have gotten a lot closer in achieving them.

• - He had a better chance of being POY at BYU. He wasn't even the ACC player of year. No doubt he would have been the WCC player of the year.
  
  - He had a better chance of playing multiple positions at BYU. Look at how Rose used KC.
  
  - Duke got no further than BYU did in the tournament as a 3 seed. He would have gotten further in the tournament at BYU.
  
  - And because he would have been a more dominant prolific player at BYU his draft stock would have been higher.

Hindsight is 20/20. Best of luck to you in the NBA, Jabari. Don't make the same mistake twice.

Gunk wrote:
If you compare what his goals were according the the SI article that came out the other month, had he gone to BYU he would have gotten a lot closer in achieving them.

• - He had a better chance of being POY at BYU. He wasn't even the ACC player of year. No doubt he would have been the WCC player of the year.
  
  - He had a better chance of playing multiple positions at BYU. Look at how Rose used KC.
  
  - Duke got no further than BYU did in the tournament as a 3 seed. He would have gotten further in the tournament at BYU.
  
  - And because he would have been a more dominant prolific player at BYU his draft stock would have been higher.

Hindsight is 20/20. Best of luck to you in the NBA, Jabari. Don't make the same mistake twice.

At worst, he'll be the 3rd player drafted in June. His draft stock is based more on if people think Wiggins (yes) and Embiid (probably not) will be better players than him.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/ncaa-basketball/duke-losing-or-this-mercer-white-boy-dance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



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This team with Jabari Parker would have been a legit final four team.

One thing is for sure and it is we would've been so much better. Jabari would've filled a very big hole for us.

Disagree. Jabari would be one more player who does't play much defense at BYU. Even with revisionist history Duke was a better choice.



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mormonrasta wrote:
Disagree. Jabari would be one more player who does't play much defense at BYU. Even with revisionist history Duke was a better choice.



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wrong wrong wrong and this is why



He would still be a defensive and rebounding upgrade..

He still plays better defense than our current 4s and would have allowed us to flourish in the up tempo offense.



He's not a great defender... but looking at our schedule and our results and looking at Duke and their results; I firmly believe that BYU was the better basketball decision. In fact I think Coach K did Jabari no favors in giving him as much free reign as he had. He became a more undisciplined player as the season went on.



I'm not the one that said BYU would have been a final four team this year, but I do believe he would have been better set up for a deep run with our team the way it was constructed at the beginning of the seasons vs Duke. Duke has no guards; their perimeter offense is pitiful.. they were an all forward and mediocre guard team...



We were an all guard team needing a 4 so Mika and Austin didn't have to be on the court at the same time.



We win 30 games with Jabari... and yes this is of course all hypothetical but look at our schedule and the results... look at what made our team broken and would could have fixed that... heck I think with Jordan Loveridge we were a 5 seed and Jabari is at a different level than Loveridge.



Duke with Jabari will still a broken team... with Jabari BYU is a well put together squad.. Our glaring weakness is that position.. so what if we wouldn't be a top 10 defensive team because we would have been the #1 offense in the country... that's how badly we needed a solid 4 and Jabari is more than solid.



BTW I'm not saying that BYU with Jabari would have performed better than Duke did with Duke's schedule (though I wonder). What I'm saying is that Jabaris path to player of the year and playing on a team with a legit final four squad was better with BYU than with Duke. With Duke his team was still broken (no guards) and BYU was broken without a guy like JP and we still managed a very solid season.

A better decision than BYU would have been Michigan State and Izzo... They would have been terrifying with JP.

craigoscarson wrote:

Disagree. Jabari would be one more player who does't play much defense at BYU. Even with revisionist history Duke was a better choice.



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wrong wrong wrong and this is why



He would still be a defensive and rebounding upgrade..

He still plays better defense than our current 4s and would have allowed us to flourish in the up tempo offense.



He's not a great defender... but looking at our schedule and our results and looking at Duke and their results; I firmly believe that BYU was the better basketball decision. In fact I think Coach K did Jabari no favors in giving him as much free reign as he had. He became a more undisciplined player as the season went on.



I'm not the one that said BYU would have been a final four team this year, but I do believe he would have been better set up for a deep run with our team the way it was constructed at the beginning of the seasons vs Duke. Duke has no guards; their perimeter offense is pitiful.. they were an all forward and mediocre guard team...



We were an all guard team needing a 4 so Mika and Austin didn't have to be on the court at the same time.



We win 30 games with Jabari... and yes this is of course all hypothetical but look at our schedule and the results... look at what made our team broken and would could have fixed that... heck I think with Jordan Loveridge we were a 5 seed and Jabari is at a different level than Loveridge.



Duke with Jabari will still a broken team... with Jabari BYU is a well put together squad.. Our glaring weakness is that position.. so what if we wouldn't be a top 10 defensive team because we would have been the #1 offense in the country... that's how badly we needed a solid 4 and Jabari is more than solid.

You say Duke had a guard problem? Skylar Halford actually started for us, now THAT'S a guard problem. Sulaimon shot better from three than any BYU player who took at least 10 threes. Cook was outstanding this year. Duke had a depth problem particularly up front. Duke actually had only one credible big besides Jabari. They were too perimeter oriented this year and their D wasn't a typical Duke D.



No question we would have had a better season with him, but we wouldn't have been poised for deep tournament run. Our defensive issues would've still been at the forefront. I agree that MSU would have his best choice, but Duke gave him a better chance at a tourney run than BYU.



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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56113/quinn-cook" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



This is what you call outstanding?



Check out this box score

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400546817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Cook had 5 points in 30 minutes and Suliamon had 2 in 23 minutes.



And I wonder how easy it would be to shoot 3 pointers if you had Jabari Parker, Rodney Hood, and Amile Jefferson that can all put the ball on the floor and take it to the hole or stop and pop for a J anywhere inside the perimeter.



If you compared Anson Winders minutes per game performance vs Duke guards... Anson wins out.



Compare Carlinos numbers to any Duke guard

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/51309/matt-carlino" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



and do we really want to bother to compare any Duke guard to Tyler Haws

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/45802/tyler-haws" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



or our starting point guard for the majority of the season?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51670/kyle-collinsworth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I know you're a Arizona hoops fan > BYU hoops but go back and watch the Duke/Virginia game... (curious how you felt when Jimmer owned them)



You are crazy if you'd rather have Cook, Suliamon, Dawkins, and Thornton over Carlino, Haws, Collinsworth, and Winder.. it's not even a contest



oh and the sad thing is that Dukes guards aren't even better defenders...



"BUT IT'S DUKE AND IT'S ACC!!! THEY'RE BETTER BECAUSE THEY'RE DUKE AND THEY'RE ON NATIONAL TV" nope.....



The argument is Duke the way they're built now vs BYU the way they're built now PLUS Jabari...



I'll be more than happy to take my chances with the Jabari led BYU team over the Jabari led Duke team.

Here's another way to look at it.



Remove Jabari from both teams. No Jabari for Duke, no Jabari for BYU.



And even though BYU's greatest weakness is at the stretch 4. We would beat a Jabari-less Duke more than they would beat us. That's how much he meant to them.



BYU vs Duke minus Jabari... (anyone still picking Duke?)



Duke minus Jabari would not beat USF.

Have to agree with Craig (not that that is hard to do).



Rasta suffers from Duke-itis just like ALOT of folks who picked them in their brackets to make elite eight or Even final four. Saw a national pundit pick them as NC. What a joke. Duke-itis, blue-goggled, Coach K is deity kinda folks.

craigoscarson wrote:
Here's another way to look at it.



Remove Jabari from both teams. No Jabari for Duke, no Jabari for BYU.



And even though BYU's greatest weakness is at the stretch 4. We would beat a Jabari-less Duke more than they would beat us. That's how much he meant to them.



BYU vs Duke minus Jabari... (anyone still picking Duke?)



Duke minus Jabari would not beat USF.

The thing you're overlooking about Jabari is Jabari himself. He plays such a huge role for Duke ( and would have for Byu as well) that if he happens to play poorly the whole ship goes down with him. That is exactly what happened in the tournament this year. Jabari went 4-14 and might have been the worst defender on the floor vs. Mercer. That terrible Duke guard line in that game scored 49 points on 15-33 shooting with 8 assists and 3 turnovers. The guards didn't fail Jabari. Jabari failed himself. If byu had Jabari and was a 3 seed, the same thing likely would have happened.



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mormonrasta wrote:

Here's another way to look at it.



Remove Jabari from both teams. No Jabari for Duke, no Jabari for BYU.



And even though BYU's greatest weakness is at the stretch 4. We would beat a Jabari-less Duke more than they would beat us. That's how much he meant to them.



BYU vs Duke minus Jabari... (anyone still picking Duke?)



Duke minus Jabari would not beat USF.

The thing you're overlooking about Jabari is Jabari himself. He plays such a huge role for Duke ( and would have for Byu as well) that if he happens to play poorly the whole ship goes down with him. That is exactly what happened in the tournament this year. Jabari went 4-14 and might have been the worst defender on the floor vs. Mercer. That terrible Duke guard line in that game scored 49 points on 15-33 shooting with 8 assists and 3 turnovers. The guards didn't fail Jabari. Jabari failed himself. If byu had Jabari and was a 3 seed, the same thing likely would have happened.



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I think Coach K failed Jabari.



And that Duke guard line did that vs Mercer (a team Tennessee just dominated)



Look what they did vs Virginia.. and look what they did throughout the entire year.



BYU without Jabari could have beaten Mercer, so why in the world would have it been all on Jabaris shoulders if we had him?



I think after seeing Stanford, Wichita State, Iowa State, and Texas (even Weber State) this week that BYU (without Jabari) would be getting some credit.



BYU is a team that desperately needed a stretch 4... can't think of a better one for BYU than Jabari.

craigoscarson wrote:

craigoscarson wrote:
Here's another way to look at it.



Remove Jabari from both teams. No Jabari for Duke, no Jabari for BYU.



And even though BYU's greatest weakness is at the stretch 4. We would beat a Jabari-less Duke more than they would beat us. That's how much he meant to them.



BYU vs Duke minus Jabari... (anyone still picking Duke?)



Duke minus Jabari would not beat USF.

The thing you're overlooking about Jabari is Jabari himself. He plays such a huge role for Duke ( and would have for Byu as well) that if he happens to play poorly the whole ship goes down with him. That is exactly what happened in the tournament this year. Jabari went 4-14 and might have been the worst defender on the floor vs. Mercer. That terrible Duke guard line in that game scored 49 points on 15-33 shooting with 8 assists and 3 turnovers. The guards didn't fail Jabari. Jabari failed himself. If byu had Jabari and was a 3 seed, the same thing likely would have happened.



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I think Coach K failed Jabari.



And that Duke guard line did that vs Mercer (a team Tennessee just dominated)



Look what they did vs Virginia.. and look what they did throughout the entire year.



BYU without Jabari could have beaten Mercer, so why in the world would have it been all on Jabaris shoulders if we had him?



I think after seeing Stanford, Wichita State, Iowa State, and Texas (even Weber State) this week that BYU (without Jabari) would be getting some credit.



BYU is a team that desperately needed a stretch 4... can't think of a better one for BYU than Jabari.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda...BUT..



Jabari would have been a game changer/season changer for BYU, no doubt, and I doubt it would have changed his daft status.

I've argued this in other threads. I think we make a deep run with JP provided we don't lose KC. JP would not have been used the same as at Duke. He would have been on a team and not expected to carry that team all year long. And with him I think we win the following

Iowa St

Oregon

LMU

Pepperdine

Portland

Pacific



Very possible different outcomes

Witchata St

GU 2x

Utah

Hamas. Stupid auto correct LOL. UMass



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Even just the six games you think we win, that puts us at 27-4 going into the WCC tournament. That would have made us the WCC regular season champs. Who knows, maybe we win the WCC tourney as well. So now we're 30-4 and likely in the top 10. There's a good chance we're a 3 or a 4 seed.



Of course, given the tournament this year, I'd rather be a 4 seed (all of them still alive) than a 3 seed (only one still alive).