Back to Carlino Starting?

We are a different, better team with Carlino on the court. Last three games our offense was able to do nothing until Carlino stepped on the court. I say bring him back. Keep the leash tight, but we can't start games cold. We can't close out close games. Haws is the only starter that's a threat. He needs another option out there.



Halford had one good game and has since done little as a starter.



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Yeah, it's time. And if he goes nuts and play crazy we can sort of count on Halford to run the offense well.

Agreed, but Halford still needs meaningful minutes as well.

Nope.mhes not ready. Still showed a penchant for crap-Lino last night. He got showed up by Portland Josh Sharp and then ran down and jacked up a three inadvisedly. Wen he gets frantic, he s quickly can devolve into his crap.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Nope.mhes not ready. Still showed a penchant for crap-Lino last night. He got showed up by Portland Josh Sharp and then ran down and jacked up a three inadvisedly. Wen he gets frantic, he s quickly can devolve into his crap.

Your disdain for Carlino is amazing...



Guy had 25 points, 9 assists, 0 turnovers, 7 steals, shot 2/2 from the line and is still not good enough for you.



Only reason we made it to overtime and were even in the game was because of Carlino. Your boy KC certainly wasn't doing anything and neither was Halford. You rag on Carlino for taking a quick three when down by 6 with less than a minute to go, but skip over KC's 6 turnovers.



And, what about can-do-no-wrong Haws rushing and missing shots in the final minutes as well? Haws completely disappeared midway through the 2nd overtime.



I get Carlino has his weaknesses but those are some mighty thick glasses you're looking through.

Sometimes coming off the bench makes you better. In the end does it matter if he plays 30+ minutes coming off the bench as compared to 30+ minutes as a starter? He's been so much better coming off I'd not want to tinker too much. He saved us in the first half....Go cold as the game went on...but he was solid

Carlino is best when he plays what works for him. I'll say it again, I beleive his first five minutes are his most productive. The next five he is still good but he starts to tire. Same thing for second half of the game except he tires sooner and his shots are then a hair off or he is a couple of steps further back and they come up short. He starts out fine but fades. He can score at the end of games when he is running on adrenalin but usually he is pretty tired so his shots are off. He takes them from further out. So wheter he starts or not he needs to shoot when he gets in the game and then get some rest. That would be when you give SH his time.

As for TH, he usually starts off a little but seems that all the pounding and running get him just tired enough to literally carry the team the last 7 minutes. What we need are some serious screens for him at the end of games.

BoiseBYU wrote:
Sometimes coming off the bench makes you better. In the end does it matter if he plays 30+ minutes coming off the bench as compared to 30+ minutes as a starter? He's been so much better coming off I'd not want to tinker too much. He saved us in the first half....Go cold as the game went on...but he was solid

I agree. I like Carlino coming off the bench because he is frankly better off the bench than as a starter.

Then he needs to come in a lot sooner because Halford and KC just aren't getting it done. We can't afford slow starts. We start out slow against Gonzaga and we're done. We didn't climb out from behind last night till 8 min or so left in the game.



I get Carlino is playing better off the bench, but I am not convinced that's solely because he's coming off the bench.



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Gunk wrote:
Then he needs to come in a lot sooner because Halford and KC just aren't getting it done. We can't afford slow starts. We start out slow against Gonzaga and we're done. We didn't climb out from behind last night till 8 min or so left in the game.



I get Carlino is playing better off the bench, but I am not convinced that's solely because he's coming off the bench.



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totally agree. without Carlino, byu gets destroyed last night vs Portland.

It's not " all or nothing " for any of these players. Yes I am more critical of Carlino bc his mental lapses are so preventable. KC as cost us some games w missed FTs, and Haws had plays called for him that were tough shots and forced. In the game thread I said over and over that BYU had to take it to the hole.

But yes, Carlino was critical. He could play well enough to start, but he's a bit of a head case when he has started.

hawkwing wrote:

Sometimes coming off the bench makes you better. In the end does it matter if he plays 30+ minutes coming off the bench as compared to 30+ minutes as a starter? He's been so much better coming off I'd not want to tinker too much. He saved us in the first half....Go cold as the game went on...but he was solid

I agree. I like Carlino coming off the bench because he is frankly better off the bench than as a starter.

This.



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For my point guard I like the guy that has good court vision and dribbles with his head up, can guard other point guards in man (or zone), averages way more assists then turnovers, can pass the ball to open teammates without it going out of bounds, and can be trusted with the ball late in game (FT shooting and breaking the press).



I guess that is just me. :sulk:



Rose is making a mistake and it is costing us wins. I thought he was a better coach than this, but this is Zylstra (at the point) 2.0. This has been an eye opening experience for me and I'm a little in shock. Just watch the next game when we play Whocares St. and their mostly unrecruited point guard breaks right past KC to the basket resulting in 6 of their first 10 points, (while we have 2 pts) and one foul on each of our big men rotating over to KCs man running free to the hoop with KC a full step behind.



KC has a place in the starting lineup but it certainly isn't at pg. (OMG blueisbitter posted! I better flame him ASAP. Must... Scratch... Itch... In... 4 - 3 - 2 - 1...)



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KC doesn't see the court and that's the difference. MC finds guys open and makes the team better.

KC sees the court plenty well. The difference is passing ability. MC is much more precise than KC. He can make more difficult passes (some of his long bounce passes on the break come to mind or that one from the top of the key to a baseline cutting Sharp against SC or USF)). KC can't necessarily make those passes but he sees the court well enough to lead team in assists (although MC does average more per 40 min (6.57 to 5.94) and have a slightly better assist:turnover ratio [2:1 vs 1.9:1]).

SpiffCoug wrote:
KC sees the court plenty well. The difference is passing ability. MC is much more precise than KC. He can make more difficult passes (some of his long bounce passes on the break come to mind or that one from the top of the key to a baseline cutting Sharp against SC or USF)). KC can't necessarily make those passes but he sees the court well enough to lead team in assists (although MC does average more per 40 min (6.57 to 5.94) and have a slightly better assist:turnover ratio [2:1 vs 1.9:1]).

I get weary of hearing what Carlino can do. The problem was what he was not doing as well as what he was doing that he should not have been doing. Selfish and out of control. Poor shot selection. The only way Rose has been able to get his attention was to bench him. And immediately, Carlino started playing better. Carlino was way off in the last game. He is getting his minutes and mostly playing better. Get over it.



Neither Carlino nor Collinsworth is a good point guard. Neither. We do not have one.



We were right with Zags at halftime, even though Carlino was playing poorly. He never stepped it up. If Carlino was a great PG, he would be the starting PG - at UCLA. He never got the memo there, either.



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KC is a talented player, but he doesn't belong at PG as good a job as he's doing at it. He's basically Zylstra or Cusick at the 1 - dribbles the ball up the court and passes it off as soon as he crosses mid court. Occasionally he'll make a great pass. His biggest weakness is defending other PGs. And now that we are in WCC play, a league chaulk full of really good PGs, KC's weaknesses are more apparent.



Problem with KC is as great a player as he is, where do you put him. He should be at the 3 spot, but can't shoot. Can't play the 2 because he can't shoot either. Too small for the 4.



Rose, as much as I like him, has goofed with the lineup. Carlino hasn't done himself any favors but without him on the court our offense is stagnant. We're a run 'n gun team, so you keep your best runner and second best gunner on the bench? Rose let his team get away from him. Focus should have been on defense from the get go. A short leash should have been kept on Carlino, but without disrupting his confidence.



There is still hope. We'll be a dangerous team in the WCC tourney.But we don't win with KC at the point.



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KC is a 3 and could be a great one if he ever learns that all he really needs to do is to pull up from 10 feet on everyone and hit easy jumpers--even for him. He needs a lot of work, but with his size and athleticism he can take over games once he becomes more than just a slasher.

Gunk wrote:
KC is a talented player, but he doesn't belong at PG as good a job as he's doing at it. He's basically Zylstra or Cusick at the 1 - dribbles the ball up the court and passes it off as soon as he crosses mid court. Occasionally he'll make a great pass. His biggest weakness is defending other PGs. And now that we are in WCC play, a league chaulk full of really good PGs, KC's weaknesses are more apparent.



Problem with KC is as great a player as he is, where do you put him. He should be at the 3 spot, but can't shoot. Can't play the 2 because he can't shoot either. Too small for the 4.



Rose, as much as I like him, has goofed with the lineup. Carlino hasn't done himself any favors but without him on the court our offense is stagnant. We're a run 'n gun team, so you keep your best runner and second best gunner on the bench? Rose let his team get away from him. Focus should have been on defense from the get go. A short leash should have been kept on Carlino, but without disrupting his confidence.



There is still hope. We'll be a dangerous team in the WCC tourney.But we don't win with KC at the point.

A short leash was not sufficient with Carlino. He had to lose his starting job. He still did not get the memo when they switched hi to 2. Now he gets it



I chuckle every time someone bemoans BYU suffering because he is no longer the point guard. He is getting a ton of minutes. He only plays the point guard position having declared that he is not a 2. Nobody plays 40 minutes - even Haws sits at times. Carlino gets tired - then shots come up short. Nobody plays 40 minutes. Who do you want at the point when Carlino sits his 10 minutes or so?



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Cougarbib wrote:

KC is a talented player, but he doesn't belong at PG as good a job as he's doing at it. He's basically Zylstra or Cusick at the 1 - dribbles the ball up the court and passes it off as soon as he crosses mid court. Occasionally he'll make a great pass. His biggest weakness is defending other PGs. And now that we are in WCC play, a league chaulk full of really good PGs, KC's weaknesses are more apparent.



Problem with KC is as great a player as he is, where do you put him. He should be at the 3 spot, but can't shoot. Can't play the 2 because he can't shoot either. Too small for the 4.



Rose, as much as I like him, has goofed with the lineup. Carlino hasn't done himself any favors but without him on the court our offense is stagnant. We're a run 'n gun team, so you keep your best runner and second best gunner on the bench? Rose let his team get away from him. Focus should have been on defense from the get go. A short leash should have been kept on Carlino, but without disrupting his confidence.



There is still hope. We'll be a dangerous team in the WCC tourney.But we don't win with KC at the point.

A short leash was not sufficient with Carlino. He had to lose his starting job. He still did not get the memo when they switched hi to 2. Now he gets it



I chuckle every time someone bemoans BYU suffering because he is no longer the point guard. He is getting a ton of minutes. He only plays the point guard position having declared that he is not a 2. Nobody plays 40 minutes - even Haws sits at times. Carlino gets tired - then shots come up short. Nobody plays 40 minutes. Who do you want at the point when Carlino sits his 10 minutes or so?



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Starting is significant. Do you start a football game with your backup QB the first couple of series? No. That's dumb because you aren't giving yourself the best opportunity to win right out of the gate.



KC starting at the point and Halford at the 2 gets BYU in a hole. We start out slow while our 2nd best scorer is sitting on the bench. He comes in, the offense flows and we close the gap. Yes, Carlino is getting his minutes but when he gets the minutes counts. KC actually plays better and is a more dangerous player when he isn't playing PG - MC also has another target he can work with.



Furthermore, we all know MC plays better in the first half. Why would you then limit his first half minutes? Doesn't make sense.



MC should be starting. Did he need a message sent to him, sure. Message received, now hand the ball back to him.



As far a backup PG, Winder or Halford can handle the ball just as well as KC. Don't forget, before MC took over primary PG duties, Winder was our PG and wasn't doing too bad of a job. Winder also has much, much better defense than KC.



As for what Rose could have done different/better with Carlino, first and foremost if he took a rushed Rose should have sat him. If he was rushing shots while up in the final min and not working the shot clock, should have benched him. Carlino plays within himself when rested, Rose should have given him more rest - play him for 5 min, rest him for 2, play him for 5 rest him for 2, etc - to keep his legs fresh, confidence up and chance to tweak the game plan.



In short, Rose isn't working his players tendencies to his advantage.