Ty Detmer vs Taysom Hill

Ok guys, I am going to do the unthinkable, I am going to compare Taysom Hill to the greatest College QB in the history of College football. This is not to say that Taysom is as Good as the great one but to give some comparison stats just as food for thought.



Ty's Sophomore year (1989) 4433 total yards 38 TD's (Passing and rushing) 15 Interceptions



Taysom Hill's Sophomore year 4282 Total yards 29 TD's (passing and rushing) 14 interceptions.



While Hill's throwing isn't even in the ballpark of Ty's numbers, His Legs made up for it. If Taysom can improve his throwing significantly (I believe that his ability to throw will improve exactly proportionately to the Offensive line's improvement) we will see something we have never seen before at BYU and may never see again.

I think that is the key. His throwing will have to improve SIGNIFICANTLY to get into that realm. He is already explosive with his legs, but the passing is lacking right now. If he can learn to scan the field, exploit defenses, find open receivers, and put the ball on the money he could become not only one of the great ones, but a great one with the added element of great rushing ability. Only time will tell if he makes the jump though. If he does not signficantly improve his passing next season, I think we will have to chalk him up as another pretty good BYU QB.

Now that gets me excited for next year.

Cougarfan87 wrote:
I think that is the key. His throwing will have to improve SIGNIFICANTLY to get into that realm. He is already explosive with his legs, but the passing is lacking right now. If he can learn to scan the field, exploit defenses, find open receivers, and put the ball on the money he could become not only one of the great ones, but a great one with the added element of great rushing ability. Only time will tell if he makes the jump though. If he does not signficantly improve his passing next season, I think we will have to chalk him up as another pretty good BYU QB.

I think the offensive line will need to improve SIGNIFICANTLY if we are going to ever see Hill's throwing potential. If/when that happens, you will see a significant drop in Hill's running stats, which will be a good thing.

frdbtr wrote:

I think that is the key. His throwing will have to improve SIGNIFICANTLY to get into that realm. He is already explosive with his legs, but the passing is lacking right now. If he can learn to scan the field, exploit defenses, find open receivers, and put the ball on the money he could become not only one of the great ones, but a great one with the added element of great rushing ability. Only time will tell if he makes the jump though. If he does not signficantly improve his passing next season, I think we will have to chalk him up as another pretty good BYU QB.

I think the offensive line will need to improve SIGNIFICANTLY if we are going to ever see Hill's throwing potential. If/when that happens, you will see a significant drop in Hill's running stats, which will be a good thing.

Agreed, we are often victims of our circumstances.

Cougarfan87 wrote:

Cougarfan87 wrote:
I think that is the key. His throwing will have to improve SIGNIFICANTLY to get into that realm. He is already explosive with his legs, but the passing is lacking right now. If he can learn to scan the field, exploit defenses, find open receivers, and put the ball on the money he could become not only one of the great ones, but a great one with the added element of great rushing ability. Only time will tell if he makes the jump though. If he does not signficantly improve his passing next season, I think we will have to chalk him up as another pretty good BYU QB.

I think the offensive line will need to improve SIGNIFICANTLY if we are going to ever see Hill's throwing potential. If/when that happens, you will see a significant drop in Hill's running stats, which will be a good thing.

Agreed, we are often victims of our circumstances.

I have to disagree with this statement only because of the wording you used. I don't believe in "victim's of circumstance" but the fact is in the ultimate teams sport which football is, the reality of the situation is that BYU's offensive line last year was absolutely horrible. The good news is Robert Anae being a former offensive lineman is aware of how important it is to have a good offensive line and I have to believe that him and 2J will get it fixed.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

I think that is the key. His throwing will have to improve SIGNIFICANTLY to get into that realm. He is already explosive with his legs, but the passing is lacking right now. If he can learn to scan the field, exploit defenses, find open receivers, and put the ball on the money he could become not only one of the great ones, but a great one with the added element of great rushing ability. Only time will tell if he makes the jump though. If he does not signficantly improve his passing next season, I think we will have to chalk him up as another pretty good BYU QB.

I think the offensive line will need to improve SIGNIFICANTLY if we are going to ever see Hill's throwing potential. If/when that happens, you will see a significant drop in Hill's running stats, which will be a good thing.

Agreed, we are often victims of our circumstances.

I have to disagree with this statement only because of the wording you used. I don't believe in "victim's of circumstance" but the fact is in the ultimate teams sport which football is, the reality of the situation is that BYU's offensive line last year was absolutely horrible. The good news is Robert Anae being a former offensive lineman is aware of how important it is to have a good offensive line and I have to believe that him and 2J will get it fixed.

I knew you would, but I find agreeing with you to be very disagreeable. ;)

I don't think Hill needs to improve significantly. But he does need to improve. A 15% improvement in his PER would bring him up to the 135 Standard.



And a 135 in each of the losses last year would have likely have been able to get BYU another three or even possibly four wins.

I find that a QB's rushing production is 50% or so as valuable as his passing production.



If I'm given a choice between a QB who will pass for 400 yards a game or one who will pass for 100 yards a game and rush for 300, I'd take the passer any day.



That's not to say that the rushing isn't valuable and a big contribution, it is, but a QB who gets the rest of the team involved is more valuable because the entire field is open to attack, not just the line of scrimmage.



That changes Hill's numbers to:



672 effective QB rushing yards, 5 effective QB TDs, 2938 passing yards, 19 TDs, 14 int.



Grand totals of:

3610 effective yards, 24 TD, 14 int.



Still good numbers, and I think it shows that he's a special talent, but must improve in the passing game to become a great and take BYU to the next level.

The biggest difference I see is the 9 TD difference, which is almost a 25% difference. In my opinion, if Taysom didn't improve at anything but getting 9-12 more TD's (red zone efficiency), that would be enough. Taysom often performed really well until the red zone, where he (or the play calling) just fell a part. I imagine that 10 more TD's would also increase his PR the 15 points Spiff is requiring.

jacksonman wrote:
The biggest difference I see is the 9 TD difference, which is almost a 25% difference. In my opinion, if Taysom didn't improve at anything but getting 9-12 more TD's (red zone efficiency), that would be enough. Taysom often performed really well until the red zone, where he (or the play calling) just fell a part. I imagine that 10 more TD's would also increase his PR the 15 points Spiff is requiring.

The Red Zone problems BYU had last year were mostly the offensive line's fault. I listened to "BYU Sportsnation" the Monday after the bowl game and they had Trevor Matich on the show. He was hesitant to bad mouth the offensive line but said that basically in the red zone BYU struggled because with the field condensed it put the other teams defense closer to the line and the line was unable to hold up and get push in that situation. I agree that the difference in TD's was huge for Ty in his sophomore year. I believe that if the line starts doing its job we have seen the last time Hill will rush for so many yards because everyone (including Taysom Hill IMO) would rather see Hill's throwing numbers increase significantly and thus his rushing yards decrease significantly.

frdbtr wrote:

The biggest difference I see is the 9 TD difference, which is almost a 25% difference. In my opinion, if Taysom didn't improve at anything but getting 9-12 more TD's (red zone efficiency), that would be enough. Taysom often performed really well until the red zone, where he (or the play calling) just fell a part. I imagine that 10 more TD's would also increase his PR the 15 points Spiff is requiring.

The Red Zone problems BYU had last year were mostly the offensive line's fault. I listened to "BYU Sportsnation" the Monday after the bowl game and they had Trevor Matich on the show. He was hesitant to bad mouth the offensive line but said that basically in the red zone BYU struggled because with the field condensed it put the other teams defense closer to the line and the line was unable to hold up and get push in that situation. I agree that the difference in TD's was huge for Ty in his sophomore year. I believe that if the line starts doing its job we have seen the last time Hill will rush for so many yards because everyone (including Taysom Hill IMO) would rather see Hill's throwing numbers increase significantly and thus his rushing yards decrease significantly.

The line is obviously not great and needs to be improved. But I think blaming all our offensive woes on them will not improve things.



I don't know how many times I saw the line holding up well to have Taysom scramble away from a good pocket right into a Defender. It can't be easy as an O-lineman trying to hold a pocket for Taysom when he doesn't pay attention to an internal timer, likes to tuck and run, and with the read option. Definitely the line can improve, but Taysom has to stop scrambling right into receivers and he better get rid of the ball within 3-4 seconds instead of trying to tuck and run after waiting those 3-4 seconds.

SpiffCoug wrote:
I don't think Hill needs to improve significantly. But he does need to improve. A 15% improvement in his PER would bring him up to the 135 Standard.



And a 135 in each of the losses last year would have likely have been able to get BYU another three or even possibly four wins.

Yes. But. A 135 PER is an average BYU QB PER across all of their seasons - not just Senior Season PER.Very respectable. Good enough to win the vast majority of the time. Not a GREAT PER, If you define great as McMahon, Young, and Detmer.

Now if you lower the bar to include Wilson, Nielsen, Bosco, and Sarkisan senior seasons - I suspect, but do not know, if 135 qualifies. That would be interesting data.



Drop the bar to include Beck and Hall who sniffed the NFL. Maybe it falls in their compared to their senior seasons.



Hill runs better than any of them - maybe Steve Young is debatable - definitely way better than the others and right in the discussion with Young.



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frdbtr wrote:

The biggest difference I see is the 9 TD difference, which is almost a 25% difference. In my opinion, if Taysom didn't improve at anything but getting 9-12 more TD's (red zone efficiency), that would be enough. Taysom often performed really well until the red zone, where he (or the play calling) just fell a part. I imagine that 10 more TD's would also increase his PR the 15 points Spiff is requiring.

The Red Zone problems BYU had last year were mostly the offensive line's fault. I listened to "BYU Sportsnation" the Monday after the bowl game and they had Trevor Matich on the show. He was hesitant to bad mouth the offensive line but said that basically in the red zone BYU struggled because with the field condensed it put the other teams defense closer to the line and the line was unable to hold up and get push in that situation. I agree that the difference in TD's was huge for Ty in his sophomore year. I believe that if the line starts doing its job we have seen the last time Hill will rush for so many yards because everyone (including Taysom Hill IMO) would rather see Hill's throwing numbers increase significantly and thus his rushing yards decrease significantly.

Can't believe I agree with Jacksonman, but it is not all on the O Line. They are certainly a big contributor - just not the whole enchilada.



Re FORD's comment. I hope not. I hope Hill's rushing yards stay the same. I just want to see him get them in huge chunks on a few carries like in the Texas game by easily popping into the secondary when the defense is respecting the passing threat including over - the - top.



If Hill gets there - Special Season - Heisman Trophy style.



If Hill becomes a Manziel passer, he will become an even better runner than Johnny Football.



Next year has a much friendlier look to it re racking up stats and wins. Maybe TH will get on a roll.



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Hill's best game was more statistically impressive than Ty's best game...but that Houston game was something special...there's a reason why no one else at BYU has ever done it.

Cougarbib wrote:

jacksonman wrote:
The biggest difference I see is the 9 TD difference, which is almost a 25% difference. In my opinion, if Taysom didn't improve at anything but getting 9-12 more TD's (red zone efficiency), that would be enough. Taysom often performed really well until the red zone, where he (or the play calling) just fell a part. I imagine that 10 more TD's would also increase his PR the 15 points Spiff is requiring.

The Red Zone problems BYU had last year were mostly the offensive line's fault. I listened to "BYU Sportsnation" the Monday after the bowl game and they had Trevor Matich on the show. He was hesitant to bad mouth the offensive line but said that basically in the red zone BYU struggled because with the field condensed it put the other teams defense closer to the line and the line was unable to hold up and get push in that situation. I agree that the difference in TD's was huge for Ty in his sophomore year. I believe that if the line starts doing its job we have seen the last time Hill will rush for so many yards because everyone (including Taysom Hill IMO) would rather see Hill's throwing numbers increase significantly and thus his rushing yards decrease significantly.

Can't believe I agree with Jacksonman, but it is not all on the O Line. They are certainly a big contributor - just not the whole enchilada.



Re FORD's comment. I hope not. I hope Hill's rushing yards stay the same. I just want to see him get them in huge chunks on a few carries like in the Texas game by easily popping into the secondary when the defense is respecting the passing threat including over - the - top.



If Hill gets there - Special Season - Heisman Trophy style.



If Hill becomes a Manziel passer, he will become an even better runner than Johnny Football.



Next year has a much friendlier look to it re racking up stats and wins. Maybe TH will get on a roll.



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I never said the Oline was 100% of the problem, I said they were most of the problem. But having said that, if the Oline were getting push off of the line of scrimmage, it opens the play book inside the Red zone. They were getting blown up (go watch the replay games on byutvsports.com) which doesn't help to get the ball into the end zone. Plus we get false starts and holds that move the ball backwards that BYU never could recover from this year.

The inconsistency of the OL made calling plays that would result in touchdowns difficult. Yes, Hill could have made better throws and receivers could have caught a few more balls, but if you can't run straight ahead with violent consistency in the red zone because your OL can't block well enough, you aren't very efficient.

stuckinbig10country wrote:
The inconsistency of the OL made calling plays that would result in touchdowns difficult. Yes, Hill could have made better throws and receivers could have caught a few more balls, but if you can't run straight ahead with violent consistency in the red zone because your OL can't block well enough, you aren't very efficient.

Yes! This!