Is BYU Basketball Becoming Irrelevant?

Where is this program trending right now? Say all you want about the incoming recruiting classes, who have yet to prove their mettle at this level, the current and recent teams aren't even competing for WCC championships. I can't help but wonder with the emphasis on Independence in FB and nationwide "exposure" for FB if the basketball program hasn't suffered as a result. Yes it was nice for the WCC to provide BYU with a nice landing spot when football went Independent, but getting crap-kicked at LMU feels worse then getting crap-kicked at UNLV. Thoughts?

Playing in a high school conference is killing this team. It's clear we play to the level of our opponents. Well for the rest of this season we are playing high school teams in high school gyms as opposed to the teams and venues we played in the pre-season. I don't know about anyone else but I'd have a hard time getting as pumped up.



Problem is, we are the big dog (for some reason) in the WCC and everyone gives us their best shot. They play us often and know our weaknesses. This will bite us often. Whereas if we played in a legit conference we'd be the ones occasionally knocking off a big dog. The WCC sucks and we will amazingly never win it.

Like the football team the BB team is soft. We have recruited soft players who play no defense. This team thinks it can just go out and outscore everyone but the sad thing is, it is way too streaky to rely on that. When the 3 pointers quit falling, we get whipped because no one on the team plays defense.

WCC teams in top rung know how to beat this team and exploit their weakness. For second year in a row they have no perimeter defense and are soft in the middle. This team has no heart and no pride when it comes to defense. Unless the mindset changes, this team is NIT bound and will not even sniff 3/4th place unless ship is righted. Pathetic performance and certainly showed tournament selection team that they are wildly inconsistent. Gonzaga and St. Mary's seem to have no problem putting down the teams trying to dethrone them at home or away. They need to learn same killer instinct.



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If the WCC is a high school conference, BYU is a middle school team.



This teams season is already over. I literally don't care about this team any more this season. So yes, this years basketball team is already irrelevant.

Once again, it comes down to coaching. I don't know if Rose isn't putting the same amount of effort into it as before or what.



Our team lacks discipline and an identity, two things that come from coaching. The coaches recruited these players and appear not to know what to do with them. I agree we appear to be playing down. It's no secret Rose wasn't thrilled to go to the WCC. At the same time the WCC is making progress. Combine that less enthusiasm and I can see why we aren't performing well.



Coaching change may be in order. Not because Rose isn't a good coach, but because some new energy may be needed to get the program going. Someone eager to prove themselves.



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I'm learning that as long as we have Coach Rose, we are going to live and die by the PG, and right now the PG is bi-polar.

frdbtr wrote:
Like the football team the BB team is soft. We have recruited soft players who play no defense. This team thinks it can just go out and outscore everyone but the sad thing is, it is way too streaky to rely on that. When the 3 pointers quit falling, we get whipped because no one on the team plays defense.

Amen. It is staggering to watch this team play game after game almost literally without a defensive stop. Do we ever get blocks or steals? Wow, no. Our stops are when the other team misses their open 3's. That's it!



No team that simply refuses to play D deserves to even be a D1 program.



Screw this GFGH crap. Go into the half court and play to the fact that we don't have enough depth to give teams 60 possessions during which they can foul out Mika and Austin.

Gunk wrote:
Once again, it comes down to coaching. I don't know if Rose isn't putting the same amount of effort into it as before or what.



Our team lacks discipline and an identity, two things that come from coaching. The coaches recruited these players and appear not to know what to do with them. I agree we appear to be playing down. It's no secret Rose wasn't thrilled to go to the WCC. At the same time the WCC is making progress. Combine that less enthusiasm and I can see why we aren't performing well.



Coaching change may be in order. Not because Rose isn't a good coach, but because some new energy may be needed to get the program going. Someone eager to prove themselves.



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Dave rose is the best Basketball coach in the history of BYU basketball. Even with the last couple seasons being down seasons BYU would be INSANE to fire him.

hawkwing wrote:
If the WCC is a high school conference, BYU is a middle school team.



This teams season is already over. I literally don't care about this team any more this season. So yes, this years basketball team is already irrelevant.

If I catch you caring later I will be sure to remind you of this post. In an unusual move, I waxed a little optimistic about this team - did not really over estimate them - just underestimated the SOS including improved conference play at a time we though St Mary's would be way down and Zags would be vulnerable.



I will say the same thing about football and basketball - you play a lot of decent teams, and an opposing coach will eventually expose any significant weakness and others will copy.

snoscythe wrote:
I'm learning that as long as we have Coach Rose, we are going to live and die by the PG, and right now the PG is bi-polar.

Right now, we do not have a real point guard. Have not often had one. Jimmer was not one.

Cougarbib wrote:

I'm learning that as long as we have Coach Rose, we are going to live and die by the PG, and right now the PG is bi-polar.

Right now, we do not have a real point guard. Have not often had one. Jimmer was not one.

Bi polar implies ups with the downs--I'm not seeing very many ups. Carlino needs to be Sxth man. halford has been far more productive. Rose better wake up and shake up, bc this team is dieing on the vine.

And as I predicted, as did a few others, BYU is in big trouble (pun intended). This isn't even the toughest front line BYU will face, but LMU owned our bigs. Sadly, we need SMASH. don't even know if BYU will get him.

As for this identity piece, Rose has counter sunk us, bc when GFGH, run and gun doesn't work, this team doesn't know what to do. It was astounding how this team finally stepped up its D today after it was too late to compete the comeback.

Carlno = Riley Nelson.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
I'm learning that as long as we have Coach Rose, we are going to live and die by the PG, and right now the PG is bi-polar.

Right now, we do not have a real point guard. Have not often had one. Jimmer was not one.

Bi polar implies ups with the downs--I'm not seeing very many ups. Carlino needs to be Sxth man. halford has been far more productive. Rose better wake up and shake up, bc this team is dieing on the vine.

And as I predicted, as did a few others, BYU is in big trouble (pun intended). This isn't even the toughest front line BYU will face, but LMU owned our bigs. Sadly, we need SMASH. don't even know if BYU will get him.

As for this identity piece, Rose has counter sunk us, bc when GFGH, run and gun doesn't work, this team doesn't know what to do. It was astounding how this team finally stepped up its D today after it was too late to compete the comeback.

Carlno = Riley Nelson.

No way Carlino is that good. Carlino == Heaps. Completely overrated, looks half way decent against the worst teams but ultimately gets humiliated by anyone with a pulse.

Wow Hawk. some serious dark themes coming out of you lately. But I'm with you. After I suggested RN, I thought that might be a disservice to Riley. Credit Riley at some level for having the brass to sticks to his MO. Credit Rose for clamping down on up MCs brick chucking ways, but he has to go the distance. MC has to settle into a distributor role as he did for a few games and take care of the ball. Otherwise, its time to start Halford.

Let's see how sobering this LMU loss turns out to be.

And how much of this teams troubles are a result of too much GFGH and they are just tired. This team looked like the last two years halfway into the conference schedule when they ran out of gas. So, its very concerning its happened this early.

But as to the OP, this team can play its way out of the trend to becoming irrelevant, but its a deep hole.

Is Rosé tired from fighting all the cancer? I don't think so, but turning over every stone might be needed to determine what needs to happen for this team.

Maybe they should rest their weary legs and shoot free throws all practice.

Maybe we need the trainer who conditioned the Olinemen to be able to handle the GFGH pace. ;-)

Halford got eaten alive yesterday. He isn't the answer. Halford dribbles into traffic just like MC, makes poor decisions and is also a streaky shooter.



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That streaky shooter is still at 60% according to Wrubell. What's MC at?

Cougs_Rule wrote:
That streaky shooter is still at 60% according to Wrubell. What's MC at?

True, but your preferred PG is averaging barely over half an assist per game. Halford is not a ball distributor. We need a distributor, which is why Rose is toying with KC more at point. Problem is KC isn't a PG either. The one player that has the best shot at being a legit PG appears to not want to be a PG.



This goes down to recruiting. Rose stacked up on shooters and scorers forgetting you need at least one guy that gets satisfaction from facilitating.



No one on this team facilitates. It's get the ball and drive to the middle.



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Gunk wrote:

That streaky shooter is still at 60% according to Wrubell. What's MC at?

True, but your preferred PG is averaging barely over half an assist per game. Halford is not a ball distributor. We need a distributor, which is why Rose is toying with KC more at point. Problem is KC isn't a PG either. The one player that has the best shot at being a legit PG appears to not want to be a PG.



This goes down to recruiting. Rose stacked up on shooters and scorers forgetting you need at least one guy that gets satisfaction from facilitating.



No one on this team facilitates. It's get the ball and drive to the middle.



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Agree except I do not see one who could be legit, but does not want to. I assume you mean Carlino. Maybe could be almost legit. Ball handling skills are mediocre to mediocre plus - slightly better than Collinsworth at mediocre to mediocre minus.



I do not see anyone who is clearly an NBA contributor as a guard. Inside - Mika - not clear yet either - but if I had to bet - he will get there with more experience.



Halford is a better shooter. That is it.



FB III plays out of control. Very athletic. Mediocre ball handling skills if he were PG.



Winder. Not any better.



These guys are all pretty decent. Clear upgrades from 2012/13. Experience will help some.



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To answer the OP's question to this point in the season, yes, until we get legit ballers like most every other team in the country has then we will continue down the path of irrelevance.

Gunk wrote:

That streaky shooter is still at 60% according to Wrubell. What's MC at?

This goes down to recruiting. Rose stacked up on shooters and scorers forgetting you need at least one guy that gets satisfaction from facilitating....



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AND I might add, at least a couple of guys who take pride in actually playing some defense. This isn't church ball.