Time to scrap GFGH

for BYU basketball. What we have witnessed this season imo is a team that thinks it will simply outscore teams. Ergo, defense be damned. We will just run and gun and get layups. Against patsies and most of the conference this approach will work. But against good teams you have to run a half-court offense because good teams will easily neutralize the run game.



I believe that his mentality is a huge part of why the defense sucks. There are a lot of possessions where you have a long time playing D, which is more tiring than playing O, and especially in a molasses zone.



It's time for BYU to slow the game down and only run when it's available like most good teams do.

For run and gun (aka small ball) to work the first order of emphasis has to be on defense. Defense and rebounds to get the ball and push. Right now, too much emphasis on push. Everyone has a green light, so everyone wants to score. That's their focus. Even in the post game, the response was "we need to score more." No talk of defense. When you score 96 points and lose, something is wrong with your defense.



Defense wins championships. From the look of things we won't be winning any championships.



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Gunk wrote:
For run and gun (aka small ball) to work the first order of emphasis has to be on defense. Defense and rebounds to get the ball and push. Right now, too much emphasis on push. Everyone has a green light, so everyone wants to score. That's their focus. Even in the post game, the response was "we need to score more." No talk of defense. When you score 96 points and lose, something is wrong with your defense.



Defense wins championships. From the look of things we won't be winning any championships.



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Agree and will add...



When you lose 64-81 your defense and offense have major issues.

BYU could be a much better run/gun team if they didn't play that damned zone all the time. When everyone is more anxious to get back and cherry pick than they are to secure a rebound teams will have games like Texas had against BYU.

The reason we're getting all these great recruits is due to the Jimmer factor and the style that Dave Rose runs. You don't scrap the offense, you live with the results this year and you move forward. This team can be good, but in a few years this team will have final 4 talent and those guys have played the run and gun their entire lives.



BYU had a really bad ball game yesterday, but we also should have beaten ISU and could have beaten Wichita State. Step back from the ledge peeps, we sucked yesterday but we don't suck. Go back and look at what many of you wrote after the Stanford game..

craigoscarson wrote:
The reason we're getting all these great recruits is due to the Jimmer factor and the style that Dave Rose runs. You don't scrap the offense, you live with the results this year and you move forward. This team can be good, but in a few years this team will have final 4 talent and those guys have played the run and gun their entire lives.



BYU had a really bad ball game yesterday, but we also should have beaten ISU and could have beaten Wichita State. Step back from the ledge peeps, we sucked yesterday but we don't suck. Go back and look at what many of you wrote after the Stanford game..

I don't know. Last year's team peaked kind of early too iirc. And I'll admit I dismissed the early defensive troubles and FT shooting, hoping they would get resolved. At this point, I can confidently state that those 2 biggest weaknesses are not being addressed and will, therefore, continue to make us look pathetic all season.

Last year everything ran through BD methodically. This season whoever is not open shoots. Neither team can shoot 3's nor can they rebound. I honestly think the offense should go half-court and post up Mika, Haws, or KC on every possession. They can all score with their back to the basket, but instead of utilizing that talent we fire at will.



Makes no sense especially at this point in the season having seen the results.

mizzoucoug wrote:
Last year everything ran through BD methodically. This season whoever is not open shoots. Neither team can shoot 3's nor can they rebound. I honestly think the offense should go half-court and post up Mika, Haws, or KC on every possession. They can all score with their back to the basket, but instead of utilizing that talent we fire at will.



Makes no sense especially at this point in the season having seen the results.

Like I said, we will never scrap the run and gun with Dave Rose. It's in his DNA, he played for phi slamma jama... we have the recruits coming in and we bring back all our guards next year.. this year we're having growing pains and we're incredibly young, but this appears to be sentiment based on yesterday and not the sentiment after Stanford, after Utah State, etc.



Bottom line, the run and gun isn't getting scrapped and for good reason, we are training the young guys for the future and our future recruits are studs and seasoned in the run and gun. Scrap the run and gun and lose a lot of the top tier recruits that want to play for us because of the system that we run. We get worse... Might as well ask Steve Cleveland to come back and coach us....

mizzoucoug wrote:
Last year everything ran through BD methodically. This season whoever is not open shoots. Neither team can shoot 3's nor can they rebound. I honestly think the offense should go half-court and post up Mika, Haws, or KC on every possession. They can all score with their back to the basket, but instead of utilizing that talent we fire at will.



Makes no sense especially at this point in the season having seen the results.

We've been running a lot through Mika too, but he's a freshman and yesterday Utah was determined to beat the living sh*t out of him and Tyler and no one else stepped up in the slightest. Good gameplan by Utah, poor response by BYU. Going to halfcourt wasn't going to change what Utah was doing to us.. in fact we had the hardest time when we went to the half court of finding a bucket, but when we ran we actually made some layups.



We were bad yesterday, but it's not a snapshot of our season thus far.

craigoscarson wrote:
The reason we're getting all these great recruits is due to the Jimmer factor and the style that Dave Rose runs. You don't scrap the offense, you live with the results this year and you move forward. This team can be good, but in a few years this team will have final 4 talent and those guys have played the run and gun their entire lives.



BYU had a really bad ball game yesterday, but we also should have beaten ISU and could have beaten Wichita State. Step back from the ledge peeps, we sucked yesterday but we don't suck. Go back and look at what many of you wrote after the Stanford game..

However, before we continue to be ecstatic about talent the next few years, let's open the other eye on these recruits. Little Haws is thinner and smaller than older brother. Same with Lil Emery. If a medium fast JC white guy (SH) looks twice as good on D (no doubt skills, attitude and effort he learned prior to BYU) as our starters, what does that say about our current 'run and gun' recruits? MC looks more like The fball equivalent of Mr Nelson--high risk, medium (inconsistent) reward. Haws is average at best on D and can be physically marginalized by aggressive Defenders, Austin can't guard big posts, etc, etc.

At least Bronco has a steady if not strong D to back up the high octane GFGH offensive style.

Please prove me wrong. There are some eery similarities to the Os on Fball and bball. Possessions per game, time of possession, etc. but I digress........

But even if BYU eliminated one of their two major problems--Free throws! That's like having a bad kicker in Fball and we know what happened in 2012---lost at least two games we would have won. Ad this year in bball ISU--at least.

craigoscarson wrote:

Last year everything ran through BD methodically. This season whoever is not open shoots. Neither team can shoot 3's nor can they rebound. I honestly think the offense should go half-court and post up Mika, Haws, or KC on every possession. They can all score with their back to the basket, but instead of utilizing that talent we fire at will.



Makes no sense especially at this point in the season having seen the results.

We've been running a lot through Mika too, but he's a freshman and yesterday Utah was determined to beat the living sh*t out of him and Tyler and no one else stepped up in the slightest. Good gameplan by Utah, poor response by BYU. Going to halfcourt wasn't going to change what Utah was doing to us.. in fact we had the hardest time when we went to the half court of finding a bucket, but when we ran we actually made some layups.



We were bad yesterday, but it's not a snapshot of our season thus far.

You are right--but, respectfully, it was like a bad video, not a snapshot. Yes, it was one, bad game. But everything that BYU struggles with was in full Monty. Soft D, innefective perimeter D, poor free throws, stars struggle, need another post who is physical, had to rely on weak 4s off bench, bad outside shooting, Hack-a-Mika, etc. BYU is easy to scout and dependent on refs to call according to supposed new rule changes. In other words, its live and dîe by the run and gun. If BYU is on offensively BYU has a shot, if not BYU barely scores 60 points vs an average PAC 12 team that had a hot start but finished with 40% shooting.

Run and gun all you want. Just get back and play defense. That's all I'm saying. Play defense, get a stop and run.



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There is multiple styles of the run and gun; we saw the down side yesterday. The style vs Utah included lots of 1 on play and LOTS of 1 and done's.

Byu has done well when pushing the ball AND when the defense recovers they hold back and run a set. Running for the sake of running is stupid, you miss long and the other team gets an easy 2 the other way. It's a case of BAD offense leading to bad defense.



How many times are we gonna see a 1 on 5 break and Carlino pulls up for a mid range J or transition 3? You can push the tempo and still wait for the trailer player and if nothing is open actually wait for the rest of the team to go down floor and run a set play. The goal is to get good shots ( fast break points = good fg% ) Lost in all this tempo is the quality FG's.

BroncoBot wrote:

For run and gun (aka small ball) to work the first order of emphasis has to be on defense. Defense and rebounds to get the ball and push. Right now, too much emphasis on push. Everyone has a green light, so everyone wants to score. That's their focus. Even in the post game, the response was "we need to score more." No talk of defense. When you score 96 points and lose, something is wrong with your defense.



Defense wins championships. From the look of things we won't be winning any championships.



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Agree and will add...



When you lose 64-81 your defense and offense have major issues.

BYU could be a much better run/gun team if they didn't play that damned zone all the time. When everyone is more anxious to get back and cherry pick than they are to secure a rebound teams will have games like Texas had against BYU.

I wish every team had a game like Texas had on us in both football and basketball this year - We'd be undefeated.



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