Assistant Coaches??

Is it time for Coach Rose to find some assistants other than Nashif and LaComb?? Need someone who is defensive minded and someone who can help run a half-court offense. Someone who's studied with Syracuse would be nice. Teach our kids to play zone because whities can't play man

beauso79 wrote:
Is it time for Coach Rose to find some assistants other than Nashif and LaComb?? Need someone who is defensive minded and someone who can help run a half-court offense. Someone who's studied with Syracuse would be nice. Teach our kids to play zone because whities can't play man

Our zone is soft because we're trying to protect our interior d guys from fouls, leaving open jumpers. When teams hit them, they win. When they don't we win. We rotate a lot better when we don't have to worry about helping out down low, when the Cougs start overrotating to help out, they get out of position and Utah got a lot of open shots because of it.



We're 1 piece short from being great. Jordan Loveridge would have been that piece. Utah isn't great because they're missing a lot of pieces, we're missing one, a stretch 4 that can defend, rebound, and finish around the hoop.



But all the name schools have figured out that they have to rough up Haws and they have a chance to win.

Color has very little to do with it. Kyle Collinsworth is just off his mission and the game hasnt' quite slowed down for him yet, but he's the best athlete on the team... better than Bartley. (KC will be an all American by his senior year). Opposing teams that scout BYU in the slightest know right now, if they bully Mika and Haws that they have a good chance to win, because KC doesn't have a J yet and is still rusty. Let Carlino, KC and the rest beat you and dont' let Mika or Haws get off.



These guys need some serious weight room time.



THAT BEING SAID... We are basically done recruiting for a few years... this is the best time for a shake up in the coaching staff (as long as Coach Rose and Coach Pope stick around). I'd try to find a nice JUCO landing spot for each coach (or replace Quincy Lewis at Lone Peak for LaComb, Nashif), I'd hire Quincy Lewis and find out if Thurl Bailey has any interest in coaching his son (package deal). Quincy would be an incredible decision.

I was just being a smart a** as to my "color" comment........can Lewis coach-up defense??

beauso79 wrote:
I was just being a smart a** as to my "color" comment........can Lewis coach-up defense??

I can coach up defense... it's a mindset not brain surgery.



There are individual game plans (Utah had a good one against us) but breaking down individual tape of opposing teams is not complicated (does a player have a left hand, who is likely to commit offensive fouls, who can shoot fts, what do they like to do with in bounds plays, etc.) but what you have to do is instill that mentality, playing tough and smart is more important than simple game plan.



That's probably Tyler Haws biggest weakness, he doesn't play angry. (it's also one of his biggest strengths at times... double edged sword).



But to answer your question, Lone Peak had a suffocating defense and Talon Shumway was possibly the best defensive perimeter defender in the country. I have no doubt that Quincy Lewis is ready for the next level and it makes so much sense right now to have him at BYU, assuming that Lone Peak is taken care of with their next coach.



If anyone would consider giving him a chance, you'd think it would be Dave Rose, who came from the juco ranks.



I think it's time to find Nashif and Lacomb new homes, but not in a particularly negative way, but in a "we've outgrown you and Quincy has done more for BYU than you two" way. Find them new jobs and let Quincy help coach his guys; he obviously knows how to get the best out of them and Dave Rose will get plenty of credit for it (Coach Rose is hardly chopped liver, I love him but our recruiting is going to the next level, maybe our coaching ought to also.)

This discussion reminds me a bit about Gerry Faust ND Football. Ok. He tried to jump from phenomenal high school coach right to head coach. But Quincy may or may not be an improvement - especially the first year.



Race does make a difference - by the way - examine any NBA Roster. There are exceptions. There just are not many exceptions.



Jabari Parker sure would have added a dimension to this team. Too bad he got away.



But that is the point - athletes of that caliber almost never come to BYU. I get that in football. But, in basketball, you see great athletes show up at non BCS schools all of the time. Not Jabari Parker good. Jordan Loveridge good.



We are not 1 piece or 1 or 2 coaches away from being Duke or Kansas or NC or ......



We are an NBA center and an NBA slasher and at least 2 coaches if not an entire coaching staff away.



Ain't gonna happen. Ironically, we've got guards giving themselves up trying to compensate for our bigs, and you want to dump Nashif?



Pope was supposed to take us to the next level. We are Cinderella.



Jabari Parker. Too, too, too bad. But, he would have only been here a year or two.oh well.



We just stocked up on more "softies" recruited locally - let's hire a local high school coach from a school that has provided some of those softies and have him teach them to play tough.



We need athleticism and quickness much more than we need coaching changes. Problem is we are not going to get it.

craigoscarson wrote:

I was just being a smart a** as to my "color" comment........can Lewis coach-up defense??

I can coach up defense... it's a mindset not brain surgery.

Don't let Bib or the "New Bib" see you say that. They will go bat sh** crazy and ask you why you aren't coaching :bug: . The audacity of such a statement!!!

I think we are pretty quick and athletic. Certainly more so than past seasons.



Guys are out of position. Players come down the court and their hands aren't even up on defense. That's laziness and a lack of coaching, not inferior talent. There is no fire on defense.



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Cougarbib wrote:
This discussion reminds me a bit about Gerry Faust ND Football. Ok. He tried to jump from phenomenal high school coach right to head coach. But Quincy may or may not be an improvement - especially the first year.



Race does make a difference - by the way - examine any NBA Roster. There are exceptions. There just are not many exceptions.



Jabari Parker sure would have added a dimension to this team. Too bad he got away.



But that is the point - athletes of that caliber almost never come to BYU. I get that in football. But, in basketball, you see great athletes show up at non BCS schools all of the time. Not Jabari Parker good. Jordan Loveridge good.



We are not 1 piece or 1 or 2 coaches away from being Duke or Kansas or NC or ......



We are an NBA center and an NBA slasher and at least 2 coaches if not an entire coaching staff away.



Ain't gonna happen. Ironically, we've got guards giving themselves up trying to compensate for our bigs, and you want to dump Nashif?



Pope was supposed to take us to the next level. We are Cinderella.



Jabari Parker. Too, too, too bad. But, he would have only been here a year or two.oh well.



We just stocked up on more "softies" recruited locally - let's hire a local high school coach from a school that has provided some of those softies and have him teach them to play tough.



We need athleticism and quickness much more than we need coaching changes. Problem is we are not going to get it.

Who suggested that Lewis jump from high school to BYU HC? No one... I've spent many years around D1 coaching staffs, I promise you that Quincy can coach as an asst at BYU. I watched almost a dozen Lone Peak games last year; 2 in person and Lewis was masterful in guiding Lone Peak to a national championship against incredible odds and some massive and athletic teams.

Ain't gonna happen. Ironically, we've got guards giving themselves up trying to compensate for our bigs, and you want to dump Nashif?

Yes, if I could get Lewis I would send Nashif packing.







This single Utah game has some of you completely missing the entire body of work. We're a good team... why do we have to be great or terrible... can't there be something in between?



Our best athlete is Kyle Collinsworth, our best defenders at the guard positions are Bartley and Winder... it's not about color because we have both. It's about experience and toughness, which will come. Kyle Collinsworth next fall (with a year to get his legs back) would be the best athlete on 85% of D1 teams btw. You don't find 6'7" dudes with 40 inch verticals, body control, and handles like him growing on trees. (we used to be willing to give an RM a year to judge his athleticism and it's already clear that he's a freak of an athlete).



We ARE 1 piece away from being able to compete with Duke or Kansas if that piece is a Jabari Parker or Jordan Loveridge... at the stretch 4. That would have been enough to win every game we've played in thus far.. it's also a statement on how glaring our weakness is at that position. (we don't have one... we have 2 centers and no 4). I think you're forgetting that we were capable of winning vs ISU and Wichita if we had just hit free throws.. BTW Duke has a 73 RPI... we have a 19 RPI and we're hypothetically talking about having a solid stretch 4.

We're 19 RPI without one, I'd say we'd be competitive with most teams with a Jordan Loveridge or even Noah Hartsock type of 4 right now.



Pope is taking us to the next level btw. How do you think we got the Mikas and Dastrups of the world to come to BYU? Do you really want to go back to the Chris Miles/Trent Plaisted days? We're young... our bigs are babies. We don't have a senior on the team. This is the reason I didn't believe that this team can win 25 games before the tourney. We are going to make mistakes.



Your post is so off base that I need to print it out and repost that in 3-4 years when all the young guys are seasoned.. you are about as wrong as when Mars called Hartsock and Abouo garbage.



How is it that Quincy Lewis is now responsible for every guy he coached to be tough? That would mean that Bronco Mendenhall is responsible for Ross Apo being soft... ?

Mika is not soft, Nick Emery is not soft, TJ Haws is not soft, Dalton Nixon is not soft, Frank Bartley is not soft, Kyle Collinsworth is not soft, Jordan Chatman is not soft.... Lone Peak is not soft and neither are many of our future recruits..... don't confuse the future with the present.

We need athleticism and quickness much more than we need coaching changes. Problem is we are not going to get it

Unfortunately you're simply committing internet diarrhea of the keyboard.. WE ARE GETTING IT. Have you seen Frank Jackson play yet? Jordan Chatman? Jamaal Aytes? Frank Bartley? Kyle Collinsworth? Eric Mika? (how many centers in all of D1 are more athletic than Mika?) Nick Emery is more athletic than Jimmer. TJ Haws is masterful with the ball and would have the highest hoops IQ on this years BYU team. Braiden Shaw is a freak athlete, Payton Dastrup was actually national ranked as a volleyball player before hoops.. We're getting them... yes we missed on Loveridge and Parker (Parker is one and done anyhow) but that's life.



To complain about Tyler Haws, Nate Austin, and Matt Carlino because they're soft and unathletic is really missing the point. They're good basketball players, Tyler is on the verge of great and they would all start on 75% of the 300+ D1 teams in the country.



We have holes on our team and we just laid an egg in SLC... but we're a really good team with a glaring weakness at the 4 (there are 300+ teams, we're in the top 20 RPI and have played a very touch schedule) and in the future we'll be great.. and in a few years we'll be more athletic than any team we've had since 1988. Bank on it...

Craig



You are missing the point. It was not me who posted above that our players are all soft. Those comments are why I posted what I posted.



I did not say any of them are garbage. I am we'll aware of the middle ground. I do not see 1 Jabari Parker on this team or in our pipeline. Sorry. The rest of the country does not either. We do not have anyone close to that. Jabari Parker is leading Duke as a true freshman. Rarified air. Duke and Kansas and Kentucky get those guys. We are not 1 player away.



I simply found it quite ironic that in a thread whining about the entire team being soft, we find a recommendation to make the very high school coach that sent them to us an assistant coach to toughen them up.



I simply found it quite ironic in a thread talking about how our guards are having to compensate for our bigs that we get a suggestion to dump the guy coaching our guards and keep the guy coaching our bigs.



I am actually quite happy with who we have and who we are and realize that we are in the middle - above the midpoint - improving again after a 3-yearish decline. Next year still a bit dicey. Things probably start to rise in two more years.



But we still will not be Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky.



BTW - I was ridiculed by Blue is Better especially, and many others when I predicted that KC would start and be a major contributor before the first ball bounced. You may recall bitterness and venom usually reserved for Robert Anae oozing out of Blue as he proclaimed that KC has atrocious ball handling skills and did not deserve 1 second at the point - blinded by the UCLA halo around Carlino.



I have taken heat for being critical of Carlino. I have never said Carlino was bad - just not Deity and with some chinks in his armor.



Blue is apparently ready to partner up with you to show Dave how to coach the basketball defense - sans any experience whatsoever.



I called you out to be specific on the other thread about Bartley. Same thing here about the entire pipeline.



Rank em and group em.



NBA Franchise Players - like Ainge was - people outside of BYU still know who he is

NBA Starter over multiple years

NBA Role player with serious minutes - like Jimmer

NBA short career - easily forgotten

All American - 1st team

All American - 2nd team

All Conference - 1st team

all Conference - 2nd team

Starter

Role Player



Categorize them. Maybe we do not disagree much at all - maybe quite a bit.



Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky probably pop out an NBA starter annually. BYU will not.

Cougarbib wrote:

BTW - I was ridiculed by Blue is Better especially, and many others when I predicted that KC would start and be a major contributor before the first ball bounced. You may recall bitterness and venom usually reserved for Robert Anae oozing out of Blue as he proclaimed that KC has atrocious ball handling skills and did not deserve 1 second at the point - blinded by the UCLA halo around Carlino.



Blue is apparently ready to partner up with you to show Dave how to coach the basketball defense - sans any experience whatsoever.

Classic Bib misquoting. You might need to get a bigger screen... It was Gunk that said the word attrocious, I just said that he wouldn't and shouldn't start over Carlino but there is room for him somewhere, because he has talent.

Postby Gunk » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:37 am

BlueIsBetter wrote:

They likely won't be playing the same position so I don't get what the tussle is all about.



KC and Carlino are vying for the position, and I think that it is a mistake to play him at PG. Carlino is much, much, MUCH better from what I have seen.

KC shouldn't touch the ball at PG or SG. He's a 3.



KC's ball handling is atrocious.

Postby BlueIsBetter » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:39 pm

Cougarbib wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Cbib, you are losing this one. There is a big difference between being the one that brings the ball downcourt and being a wing player.



You don't need good ball handling skills to be a wing player. THe more you have, the better obviously, but it is unnecessary. As a PG you need good ball handling skills. As in, handling the ball. Doing a jab step to get your man off guard, dribbling once and taking it strong to the (2 steps) has NOTHING to do with ball handling.



You look silly trying to force a lost argument on semantics.

Nearly as silly as you look using the word atrocious. Hyperbole as usual.

I didn't use the word atrocious in this thread. You are clueless, as usual.

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Image

Do you need me to explain what happened here above to you? Do you have a big enough screen not to mis-interpret the data?



Your reading comprehension is HORRIBLE! You are nothing more than a character assassinating internet bully. Do you feel better about yourself when you constantly "misquote" people, and consistently take shots at people online? :bug: You might need to get that checked out, or at least adjust your end goals to meet what your end result is going to be.



Brave man. Taking blind shots at someone who is ignoring him. Why don't you put me on ignore too? Because you like trying to take someone down too much, you sicko. It's why McGregor, BYUtx, and many of the other past great cotributors don''t come on the site anymore. Why don't you just enjoy retirement, and stop being such a troll?



I'm done with you. If your next post isn't a mea culpa, I'll ignore you forever and possibly stop coming to this site. The good dialogue on this thread isn't worth dealing with the troll(s).

No mea culpa here. I like the idea in your last sentence. I vote for that one.



I noticed that you added the words, "I did not use the word atrocious in this thread". Did you use it in another thread? With nested quotes, it is very possible that I confused who used that word.



I also noted that in the locked thread about Collinsworth's return to the team - that it will not let me quote you did use the word travesty if KC played point and the phrase that his D1 Ball Handling skills are suspect. Remember that one.



And in the numerous times I ridiculed that anyone used the word atrocious - you never said anything positive about his ball handling skills.



Note that you jumped right in and condescendingly explained what ball handling skills are - thus showing that you agreed that his ball handling skills are atrocious. Otherwise, why are you trying to explain in that very quote why I am too stupid to realize what he does not have.



Glad to see that you are able to speak for all other posters present and past.



PS It probably has not been 24 hours since you brought up Bib and The New Bib in a thread in response to Craig I Coaching up Defensive Skills. You do that stuff all the time. Pot. Kettle. Black.



Take your suggestion. It was a really good one.



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For the record, KC's ball handling does seem to be better than it was his freshman year.



Now, if he could only learn to shoot.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

beauso79 wrote:
I was just being a smart a** as to my "color" comment........can Lewis coach-up defense??

I can coach up defense... it's a mindset not brain surgery.

Don't let Bib or the "New Bib" see you say that. They will go bat sh** crazy and ask you why you aren't coaching :bug: . The audacity of such a statement!!!

This one. Right in this same thread. And you want to cry like a blustering baby because I responded. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



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OH NO!!!



NOT NESTED THREADS!!!



How can I **possibly** keep track of who says what before I call someone out!?!?!?!?



LOOK OUT EVERYONE!!! HERE COME NESTED THREADS!!!!

Cougarbib wrote:
This discussion reminds me a bit about Gerry Faust ND Football. Ok. He tried to jump from phenomenal high school coach right to head coach. But Quincy may or may not be an improvement - especially the first year.

Gerry Faust coached Cincinnati Moeller, a parochial school. In the State of Ohio you constantly have parochial schools, mostly Catholic like Moeller, that can recruit from anywhere, going up against the public schools that can't--at all. It wasn't that Gerry was/wasn't a good coach, but it was that he was a good recruiter. When you get nearly all the talent, then coaching gets a lot easier. He failed when that was no longer his strength.



Living here in Utah this last decade plus, I see kids getting around roadblocks to get to a more favorable team like Lone Peak. They don't have the latitude that Faust had as a HS coach, but I still wonder if it's that Quincy that is good of a coach, a good recruiter, or just plain lucky to have had the plumpest pickings in the Highland/Alpine, UT area.



I'm all in favor though of a shakeup to get more aggressive defensively. It's been a hole in Rose's armor for some time and if he can't coach it himself (which seems apparent), then get some help. This team has too much talent to be floundering at 8-4. Against our competition that is a descent record, but there is no reason we can't find a way to have beaten one of these top ranked teams. This loss to Puketah is unacceptable and I hope it ends up with a change in some degree. If it doesn't, then Rose will never take this program to the levels that are possible with the talent he has.



I'm by far no basketball guru and I've learned the mechanics more from reading and watching then ever being taught, but something is simply not right with the Cougars.

The word that stood out in Craigo's post was youth. I remember looking at the roster and not seeing a senior on it. I don't think we've seen the best of Mika. (the problem is he is probably off on a mission next year and we'll have more freshmen.) The same can be said for KC and others on the team. It may take 2 or 3 years before all is in place but the potential is coming.



I also think our losses this year would be 0 with Parker and maybe 1 or 2 with Loveridge of some other good #4. We also need shooting and defense. With those 2 components in place we could have won 2 more games with what we have. I am agreeing with your 3rd paragraph Em_Puma.



Another also: Quincy Lewis can coach. He and his "soft" kids beat Parker's team.

nuk13 wrote:
The word that stood out in Craigo's post was youth. I remember looking at the roster and not seeing a senior on it. I don't think we've seen the best of Mika. (the problem is he is probably off on a mission next year and we'll have more freshmen.) The same can be said for KC and others on the team. It may take 2 or 3 years before all is in place but the potential is coming.



I also think our losses this year would be 0 with Parker and maybe 1 or 2 with Loveridge of some other good #4. We also need shooting and defense. With those 2 components in place we could have won 2 more games with what we have. I am agreeing with your 3rd paragraph Em_Puma.



Another also: Quincy Lewis can coach. He and his "soft" kids beat Parker's team.

Youth is a huge issue - even with some freshmen playing very well for freshmen. These are not soft players - their strength, however is finesse. They are not bangers - generally.



Parker would have made a huge difference - inexperience not withstanding.



But, additionally, finesse guards that cannot shoot consistently from the field, in the paint, from 3 or even from free is a huge problem.



Someone was bemoaning that we could not find a way to beat Iowa State, or Wichita State, or UMass, or U. Go ahead and add Oregon - probably gonna be a loss



Well exactly 1 team in all of the 50 or so games played by those teams found a way to beat one of them. BSU nipped U by a couple, iirc. One loss between the bunch. One loss. Two points.



That is what happens when you play a respected SOS.



look at U schedule. Probably been focused on BYU for over a month.



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BlueIsBetter wrote:
OH NO!!!



NOT NESTED THREADS!!!



How can I **possibly** keep track of who says what before I call someone out!?!?!?!?



LOOK OUT EVERYONE!!! HERE COME NESTED THREADS!!!!

Be a man. An honest man BLUE. In your own words, what did you actually say about Kyle Collinsworth?



Do you really think I misrepresented the essence of what you posted? Be honest Blue.



And irony of all ironies, when I called out the poster who used the word atrocious as being hyperbole a couple of months ago - YOU posted that I shouldn't "quibble over semantics", then went on to splain what ball handling means, then you went on to say it would be "a travesty" to play KC at PG and then went on to say his ball handling skills were "suspect at the D1 level".



Have you really been misrepresented or are you quibbling over words and hiding behind skirts to kind of take attention away from how off base you were - again - as usual.



and as for your cry baby non sense about the Big Bad Bibster cyber bullying little boy blue - do you remember the Poll someone made about whether Bib should be banned? Maybe in between whimpers you could splain just how you participated in that one.



remember your post to round up people to whine about how many posts I created about BYU opponents miseries rather than organize it into one thread for you.



that my blustering friend is cyberbullying.



Pot kettle black.



and that quote in your tag line from an article where you have quoted in the opposite context of what was actually said - without even the integrity to provide a link - IMHO flaunting CC rules about quoting sources - in addition to misrepresenting what was said - well that is disingenuous - but it shows your character. It is who you are. Hiding behind skirts to misquote an expert to make it look like he agrees with your obsession. And yes, omniscient one, I know you already explained that even though he clearly stated the opposite, that was coach speak, and thus you know what he really meant.



disingenuous at best. Not a great way to represent as a BYU Alum........wait....yeah.



I liked your option. Hope you consider it. Hope you change that tag line to your own quotes - like



"Give me any average MWC Team and make me DC and I will beat Robert Anae".



Yeah that one. No skirts to hide behind.



request to Mods. If that tag line with a quote from another source without referencing the source is a CC Rule violation. Please enforce that rule so that I won't be tempted to comment about it every time I see it.



Maha lo Ni Loa



and Blue - if you did not post what I said here - tell us what you think you posted.

seems that you are the one having difficulty remembering what you posted.



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