QB issues

Let me say this first iam not a Taysom Hill hater..Iam worried for next year passing attack must get better or it's the same thing as this year..Prob 1 we r losing r top WRs from this year..Apo will be back but can he be counted on to be the 1 WR? Hill's got to get more accurate as a pocket passer..I hope their is someone that can really push him in camp next year..This offense is to easy to shutdown because we can't get the passing game going with an NFL WR..Anae has to go he is not the answer 3rd down conversation just awful, blue zone % is awful..This offense effects the Def vs ND vs Wisconsin 3 and out over and over again vs those big farm boys from the Midwest just kills us..What do you guys think just my humble opinion..Hill does some good thing please don't get me wrong cuz he sure does.

Everything you mentioned starts at the offensive line. That is our biggest problem. Also if we still had Mitch Matthews on the other side of the field from Hoffman, our passing game would imediately look better. That was a huge loss.

I agree 100%..iam not trying to put everything on Taysom hill and what you said diff has a lot of truth...Hill gotta get ride of those happy feet, some point you gotta trust your WR and oline to make a play.

ChiTownCOUG wrote:
Let me say this first iam not a Taysom Hill hater..Iam worried for next year passing attack must get better or it's the same thing as this year..Prob 1 we r losing r top WRs from this year..Apo will be back but can he be counted on to be the 1 WR? Hill's got to get more accurate as a pocket passer..I hope their is someone that can really push him in camp next year..This offense is to easy to shutdown because we can't get the passing game going with an NFL WR..Anae has to go he is not the answer 3rd down conversation just awful, blue zone % is awful..This offense effects the Def vs ND vs Wisconsin 3 and out over and over again vs those big farm boys from the Midwest just kills us..What do you guys think just my humble opinion..Hill does some good thing please don't get me wrong cuz he sure does.

Over reaction. Some truth. One really big fallacy. The BYU defense spotted Notre Dame 7 virtually uncontested points before the BYU Offense ever saw the field. Then BYU was moving nicely other than Hine indecision coming out of the endzone, Hiffman dropping Hill's first pass, and false start killing a drive. But O did not give ND good field position on that drive. Did not take long for Defense to allow another virtually uncontested TD. Defense should have been getting stops and turnovers to give the offense better field position.



And then Holmoe gave up home field advantage to ND and Wisconsin.



So yes - expect more of the same - but there is plenty of blame to go around.



The schedule will be a bit more forgiving. Not a ton, though.



BYU loses a very good fg kicker plus

Hoffman

Falslev

Friel

Ridley Plus

KVN

Manamaleuna

Hadley

Jorgenson

And a DB or 2 or 3



A lot of holes to fill.

ChiTownCOUG wrote:
I agree 100%..iam not trying to put everything on Taysom hill and what you said diff has a lot of truth...Hill gotta get ride of those happy feet, some point you gotta trust your WR and oline to make a play.

If it was you standing behind that Oline would you trust them? They talk about QB's having internal clock in there head, well I think Hill has one and if it gets to 2 Mississippi he's thinking its time to go. And who could blame him! Everything starts and stops with the line, you want Hill and the passing game to improve then the line needs to mature and grow. "Happy feet" as you call them are the best weapon this team has THIS year. Hopefully next year will be diffrent.

It is partly Hill. In some cases, a QB needs to anticipate a break and brief separation and throw it to where the receiver will be and in a position where only the receiver can get to it. Hill tries to wait until after the separation, which requires more time. Hill is an accurate enough passer most of the time, but barely. He usually misses receivers open deep.



He has more than enough arm strength. Needs to improve timing and precision. And he probably will. Simetimes he does not see the open receiver. That, too should improve.



Iirc, it took John Elway a few years to reach his potential - but when he did reach it - WOW.



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Cougarbib wrote:
It is partly Hill. In some cases, a QB needs to anticipate a break and brief separation and throw it to where the receiver will be and in a position where only the receiver can get to it. Hill tries to wait until after the separation, which requires more time. Hill is an accurate enough passer most of the time, but barely. He usually misses receivers open deep.



He has more than enough arm strength. Needs to improve timing and precision. And he probably will. Simetimes he does not see the open receiver. That, too should improve.



Iirc, it took John Elway a few years to reach his potential - but when he did reach it - WOW.



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Agree you got to trust your teammates...CH you got to let him make plays throw it up to him and let him go and get it..Hill did show improvement from last year to this year..So iam hopeful..

a1247 wrote:

I agree 100%..iam not trying to put everything on Taysom hill and what you said diff has a lot of truth...Hill gotta get ride of those happy feet, some point you gotta trust your WR and oline to make a play.

If it was you standing behind that Oline would you trust them? They talk about QB's having internal clock in there head, well I think Hill has one and if it gets to 2 Mississippi he's thinking its time to go. And who could blame him! Everything starts and stops with the line, you want Hill and the passing game to improve then the line needs to mature and grow. "Happy feet" as you call them are the best weapon this team has THIS year. Hopefully next year will be diffrent.

So everything is on the oline not on the QB at all? In the games we lost it was because we could not run and nobody feared our pass attack...Did you see what a bad penn st team did to the Wisconsin secondary...We have to be balanced to beat legit bcs teams. You can do things to the oline to get more time in the pocket..like I said its not all Hills fault but he has to get better in the passing game for BYU to go anyplace..

There are serious line issues, but there are qb issues too. Contrary to popular belief Taysom has some faults that he needs to improve on in his passing game.



1. He has troubleseeing wige open receivers. This isn't apparent to those who haven't seen him play in person, particularly on the road because TV camera angles often hide it.



2. Taysom holds on to the ball too long. Yes, sometimes he's pressured too quickly, but other times he gets a 6 second sack because he's always trying for one more moment of trying to make a play happen.



These are a couple of issues that if he works hard at can fix and become a truly elite qb. I think we see that next year.

hawkwing wrote:
There are serious line issues, but there are qb issues too. Contrary to popular belief Taysom has some faults that he needs to improve on in his passing game.



1. He has troubleseeing wige open receivers. This isn't apparent to those who haven't seen him play in person, particularly on the road because TV camera angles often hide it.



2. Taysom holds on to the ball too long. Yes, sometimes he's pressured too quickly, but other times he gets a 6 second sack because he's always trying for one more moment of trying to make a play happen.



These are a couple of issues that if he works hard at can fix and become a truly elite qb. I think we see that next year.

I would hope he had things to improve on, he is a sophomore QB with 14 starts.

Yes, Taysom does miss open players. IMO, it's most often the underneath and shorter routes. I prefer this weakness to the alternative of never looking downfield and always checking down. All we can do is hope that he learns to see the field better/get more time to do so.



The most important thing BYU has been missing is a tight end. Until we get one we won't win any big games. The Oline sucks, but we're the kind of team that needs a big, fast target with sure hands anyway.

Taysom is looking a lot more like Jake Locker than Steve Young at this point.

Locker is and was very talented and had a big arm and fast legs.. he also couldn't hit the side of a barn at times. (While Steve Young is the most accurate passer in NFL history and had those same fast legs)



Locker had all the tools and had a decent supporting cast... they would beat USC or Stanford in the same year they would go .500 with Locker.



Locker had receivers that could go get it though and we have Cody and everyone else.



http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/264/year/2010/washington-huskies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7-6 his last year

5-7 his jr yr

0-12 his 2nd year but he got hurt in the 4th game

4-9 his 1st year



Locker won 16 games in his college career... Taysom has already won 10 and missed most of last year as a result on injury/riley starting. Locker missed all but 4 games his soph year.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/482594/taysom-hill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13969/type/college/jake-locker" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



If you compare them, you'll see a lot of the same player... the difference is what Taysom becomes... Locker did not get a lot better in his college career and certainly did not win a lot.



On the bright side, I think Hill will get much better.

ChiTownCOUG wrote:

ChiTownCOUG wrote:
I agree 100%..iam not trying to put everything on Taysom hill and what you said diff has a lot of truth...Hill gotta get ride of those happy feet, some point you gotta trust your WR and oline to make a play.

If it was you standing behind that Oline would you trust them? They talk about QB's having internal clock in there head, well I think Hill has one and if it gets to 2 Mississippi he's thinking its time to go. And who could blame him! Everything starts and stops with the line, you want Hill and the passing game to improve then the line needs to mature and grow. "Happy feet" as you call them are the best weapon this team has THIS year. Hopefully next year will be diffrent.

So everything is on the oline not on the QB at all? In the games we lost it was because we could not run and nobody feared our pass attack...Did you see what a bad penn st team did to the Wisconsin secondary...We have to be balanced to beat legit bcs teams. You can do things to the oline to get more time in the pocket..like I said its not all Hills fault but he has to get better in the passing game for BYU to go anyplace..

It is not all on the oline Hill has to improve also. The difference is I believe that Hill has the talent and the drive to improve the oline however for the third year in a row has been an issue and makes me wonder if they have the talent to improve.

I honestly don't know how to evaluate the Oline...except by their production. But keep in mind we have a very young Oline, mostly freshmen and sophomores, but there is some real talent there. I just have to believe the Oline will be markedly better next year; if they are, and if Hill improves (which I can't imagine he won't, Hill has some really good physical skills), then BYU will be pretty good next year. All our running backs are back, most of the receivers are back, plus remember we have the JC kid (Bronco says he reminds him of Hoffman) coming next year, and the big time receiver from Arizona coming off a mission (forget his name). I don't think the receivers are any concern at all, nor are our running backs. I'm not even worried about our QBs, Hill will improve.



The Oline must improve, and yes, we need an NFL caliber tight end to step up and be a stud. It does concern me that BYU got all these great tight ends out of high school, all-americans and highly rated players--none of them have done much, injuries and bricks for hands have made them all kind of irrelevant.

He had like 25 runs yesterday. It seems he is taking off faster now. Riley did the same thing, run first.

People are complaining about accuracy when the QB just finished a 14-18 game?



:skeptic:



There's a lot to harp on after yesterday's ineptitude dissertation, but accuracy isn't on that list.



Hill's most apparent flaw currently is the absence of a mental timer that tells him when to give up on a pass play, either by throwing the ball away or by tucking it and running downfield with it. Too often he either sits in the pocket entirely too long, or spends too much time trying to extend broken pass plays with his feet and getting sacked rather than tucking and running towards the first down.



Most of the sacks yesterday were on Taysom Hill.

snoscythe wrote:
People are complaining about accuracy when the QB just finished a 14-18 game?



:skeptic:



There's a lot to harp on after yesterday's ineptitude dissertation, but accuracy isn't on that list.



Most of the sacks yesterday were on Taysom Hill.

Are we talking about the entire season or against a pretty bad Nevada team? accuracy is an issue; one of many.



I think Hill has yet to learn how to read a defense, thus the decision making slows him down and check downs are only a result of his feet (staying alive) and not his brain at this point.



He's the uber athlete without the scientific brain... more Michael Vick than Peyton Manning... what I'm hoping is that he gets it together in the future and combines them... ala Andrew Luck.

Well, at least the lions share of the receivers not getting open before the defensive pressure gets to him is owed to - you guessed it - the play calling .



Deep routes with a rollout to one side (effectively cutting off half the field) immediately following a hb fake (which takes at least 1 precious second of protection off the clock from our atrocious oline) isn't doing our sophomore qb that doesn't move through reads effectively any favors.



The type of offense we need to run is the same type of offense that Anae had here the last time, the first couple years, (Max Hall's sophomore and junior year). Before everyone jumps up and down, the play calling mix would have to be different than Anae was calling it, but that type of offense would be better suited for a sophomore Taysom. Quick reads that he could go through in 2-3 seconds, and then take off if they aren't there. Mix that in with hb reads, wr screens, passes to the TE over the middle, or to the H slot.



Anae isn't doing Taysom any favors, and Bronco said the exact same thing in the post game following the Nevada game.

snoscythe wrote:
People are complaining about accuracy when the QB just finished a 14-18 game?



:skeptic:



There's a lot to harp on after yesterday's ineptitude dissertation, but accuracy isn't on that list.



Hill's most apparent flaw currently is the absence of a mental timer that tells him when to give up on a pass play, either by throwing the ball away or by tucking it and running downfield with it. Too often he either sits in the pocket entirely too long, or spends too much time trying to extend broken pass plays with his feet and getting sacked rather than tucking and running towards the first down.



Most of the sacks yesterday were on Taysom Hill.

The accuracy and timing issue is this. And it may just be a confidence issue or trust issue. A QB with pinpoint accuracy, timing, and touch will have the confidence to throw to a spot and trust that the receiver will get to that spot. That confidence and or trust is not there and is why Hill has not been consistently able to make opponents pay for sending pressure by getting the ball out quickly. He waits for the receiver to get the separation and then throws.



I was curious what his PER was given his high completion percentage, no picks, and TD throw given that the yardage was so low.



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BlueIsBetter wrote:
Well, at least the lions share of the receivers not getting open before the defensive pressure gets to him is owed to - you guessed it - the play calling .



Deep routes with a rollout to one side (effectively cutting off half the field) immediately following a hb fake (which takes at least 1 precious second of protection off the clock from our atrocious oline) isn't doing our sophomore qb that doesn't move through reads effectively any favors.



The type of offense we need to run is the same type of offense that Anae had here the last time, the first couple years, (Max Hall's sophomore and junior year). Before everyone jumps up and down, the play calling mix would have to be different than Anae was calling it, but that type of offense would be better suited for a sophomore Taysom. Quick reads that he could go through in 2-3 seconds, and then take off if they aren't there. Mix that in with hb reads, wr screens, passes to the TE over the middle, or to the H slot.



Anae isn't doing Taysom any favors, and Bronco said the exact same thing in the post game following the Nevada game.

Hill had a receiver very open short / middle on more than 1 occasion and did not see him because he locked onto the deep receiver waiting for him to get open. The deep receiver drawing two defenders is why the receiver was open short. Taysom needs to get comfortable throwing quickly to backs and tight ends in the middle....assuming they get better at catching.



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