This BYU team is soft and gutless

I don't care about the cold guys, both teams had to play in it and yet ND looked tough and physical and our guys looked like they didn't even want to be on the field. I think they are probably relieved just to have the game over. Bronco's simply doesn't make 4th down calls to win games this year. Last year he makes the decision to go for 2 at Boise state to win and this year we get 4th and goal and he tries a FG every time. This game is embarrassing.

Problem as an independent is with the first loss there is nothing left to play for. There's no motivation.



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Gunk wrote:
Problem as an independent is with the first loss there is nothing left to play for. There's no motivation.



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I simply don't buy that. No motivation to beat ND on national TV? Bull. ND is also an independent with 3 losses and they looked plenty motivated.

frdbtr wrote:
I don't care about the cold guys, both teams had to play in it and yet ND looked tough and physical and our guys looked like they didn't even want to be on the field. I think they are probably relieved just to have the game over. Bronco's simply doesn't make 4th down calls to win games this year. Last year he makes the decision to go for 2 at Boise state to win and this year we get 4th and goal and he tries a FG every time. This game is embarrassing.

There certainly was logic in the FD decision. Wasn't a white flag by any means.

frdbtr wrote:

Problem as an independent is with the first loss there is nothing left to play for. There's no motivation.



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I simply don't buy that. No motivation to beat ND on national TV? Bull. ND is also an independent with 3 losses and they looked plenty motivated.

It was Senior day, course they were motivated. You know, like when we played Nothern Idaho No Name school.



There is no championship. With the first loss it's get to 6 wins and cruise.



So, it's either a complete lack of fire in our players' bellies or our coaches really are that bad.



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BroncoBot wrote:

I don't care about the cold guys, both teams had to play in it and yet ND looked tough and physical and our guys looked like they didn't even want to be on the field. I think they are probably relieved just to have the game over. Bronco's simply doesn't make 4th down calls to win games this year. Last year he makes the decision to go for 2 at Boise state to win and this year we get 4th and goal and he tries a FG every time. This game is embarrassing.

There certainly was logic in the FD decision. Wasn't a white flag by any means.

I understand the decision but are we playing for a tie or to win. Lasike just gets a huge run and we go nowhere and then call for a kick on 4th down. Get some guts and go for a TD.

frdbtr wrote:

Problem as an independent is with the first loss there is nothing left to play for. There's no motivation.



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I simply don't buy that. No motivation to beat ND on national TV? Bull. ND is also an independent with 3 losses and they looked plenty motivated.

+1



ND was eliminated from BCS bowl contention last week. Where did they find their motivation?

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
I don't care about the cold guys, both teams had to play in it and yet ND looked tough and physical and our guys looked like they didn't even want to be on the field. I think they are probably relieved just to have the game over. Bronco's simply doesn't make 4th down calls to win games this year. Last year he makes the decision to go for 2 at Boise state to win and this year we get 4th and goal and he tries a FG every time. This game is embarrassing.

There certainly was logic in the FD decision. Wasn't a white flag by any means.

I understand the decision but are we playing for a tie or to win. Lasike just gets a huge run and we go nowhere and then call for a kick on 4th down. Get some guts and go for a TD.

Have you noticed byu try and stretch the game out longer instead of take the chance on 4th down. I thought after the TH run on 3rd down that they should have gone for it on 4th as well. No guts no glory. We rarely have the glory in these situations

stgeorgefan wrote:

Gunk wrote:
Problem as an independent is with the first loss there is nothing left to play for. There's no motivation.



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I simply don't buy that. No motivation to beat ND on national TV? Bull. ND is also an independent with 3 losses and they looked plenty motivated.

+1



ND was eliminated from BCS bowl contention last week. Where did they find their motivation?

Senior day.



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frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
I don't care about the cold guys, both teams had to play in it and yet ND looked tough and physical and our guys looked like they didn't even want to be on the field. I think they are probably relieved just to have the game over. Bronco's simply doesn't make 4th down calls to win games this year. Last year he makes the decision to go for 2 at Boise state to win and this year we get 4th and goal and he tries a FG every time. This game is embarrassing.

There certainly was logic in the FD decision. Wasn't a white flag by any means.

I understand the decision but are we playing for a tie or to win. Lasike just gets a huge run and we go nowhere and then call for a kick on 4th down. Get some guts and go for a TD.

Or learn some offense and score on first down at the 5, or second down, or heck maybe even third so the FG become a moot point at that juncture. That's my biggest problem. And if BYU couldn't punch it in on 3 previous plays what changes on that 4th down?



Maybe score a few more TDs so that you have the lead in the second half.

Maybe stop ND from marching down the field and scoring at will on their first possession.



there were so many point of this game where it became obvious BYU was going to repeat their performace at Wisc. Very frustrating.

BroncoBot wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

I don't care about the cold guys, both teams had to play in it and yet ND looked tough and physical and our guys looked like they didn't even want to be on the field. I think they are probably relieved just to have the game over. Bronco's simply doesn't make 4th down calls to win games this year. Last year he makes the decision to go for 2 at Boise state to win and this year we get 4th and goal and he tries a FG every time. This game is embarrassing.

There certainly was logic in the FD decision. Wasn't a white flag by any means.

I understand the decision but are we playing for a tie or to win. Lasike just gets a huge run and we go nowhere and then call for a kick on 4th down. Get some guts and go for a TD.

Or learn some offense and score on first down at the 5, or second down, or heck maybe even third so the FG become a moot point at that juncture. That's my biggest problem. And if BYU couldn't punch it in on 3 previous plays what changes on that 4th down?



Maybe score a few more TDs so that you have the lead in the second half.

Maybe stop ND from marching down the field and scoring at will on their first possession.



there were so many point of this game where it became obvious BYU was going to repeat their performace at Wisc. Very frustrating.

I agree to a point. At some point you go for the win instead of trying to stretch the game. Byu's game management down the stretch has been so bad that I', always hoping that they don't stretch the game. I thought before the 1st play in the redzone that it should be 4 down territory. We needed 1 freakin TD in the second half and we kept chipping away with the FG's. On the flip side; going for FG's makes your defense have to be perfect. We kept stacking the %'s against us. Byu makes it so much harder on themselves. It's only 3 points, that means all we needed to do is get 1 of 2 4th downs to come out ahead. In this game we just needed 1 of 3 if we got the 1st one of the 3.( would have been 20-17 then a FG is ok)

Totally agree with you, just point out that it sucked it got to 4th down. I don't think BYU was going to sniff the 4 yard line again, so might as well go for the TD there than the 25 (where a FG may be a remote possibility).

BroncoBot wrote:
Totally agree with you, just point out that it sucked it got to 4th down. I don't think BYU was going to sniff the 4 yard line again, so might as well go for the TD there than the 25 (where a FG may be a remote possibility).

Was byu at the 25?? 1st down pass incomloete. 2nd down pass batted down. 3rd down QB run. 4th down was a 22 yard FG which mean the ball was at the 4 yard line

stgeorgefan wrote:

Totally agree with you, just point out that it sucked it got to 4th down. I don't think BYU was going to sniff the 4 yard line again, so might as well go for the TD there than the 25 (where a FG may be a remote possibility).

Was byu at the 25?? 1st down pass incomloete. 2nd down pass batted down. 3rd down QB run. 4th down was a 22 yard FG which mean the ball was at the 4 yard line

Hypothetically speaking, had BYU gone for it from the 5 for the TD, they could have got back to the 25 for the tying FG rather than try to get the TD.

I've got to say, I love KVN and his game but in the Wisc game and this game I saw more attempted arm tackles and missed tackles than in the whole season. He's been playing like either he's injured or something???

Folks. We are playing tougher teams with bigger faster stronger players than before and they are doble teaming KVN. Last year he was a man among boys most games. Now he is a man among men. That was the knock on KVN in the draft analysis. Plays around rather than through. With NFL bound OL across from you, you can no longer count on speed alone. They are fast too. KVN is small, relatively speaking.



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I agree, I've seen an awful lot of softness and mentally unfocused play this year on both sides of the ball.

Cougarbib wrote:
Folks. We are playing tougher teams with bigger faster stronger players than before and they are doble teaming KVN. Last year he was a man among boys most games. Now he is a man among men. That was the knock on KVN in the draft analysis. Plays around rather than through. With NFL bound OL across from you, you can no longer count on speed alone. They are fast too. KVN is small, relatively speaking.



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I disagree Bib. NBC showed a replay of KVN throwing an offensive lineman to the side to get into the backfield and then he weakly dove at the runners legs and missed a sure tackle for loss. I could swear that he missed every one on one tackle he attempted today. BYU will never win games like today's with this type of effort. Go back and watch the texas game IT WAS PHYSICAL and we won that matchup physically. Today was a sickening effort and it had nothing to do with talent since Texas has every bit as much NFL talent as ND has.

frdbtr wrote:

Folks. We are playing tougher teams with bigger faster stronger players than before and they are doble teaming KVN. Last year he was a man among boys most games. Now he is a man among men. That was the knock on KVN in the draft analysis. Plays around rather than through. With NFL bound OL across from you, you can no longer count on speed alone. They are fast too. KVN is small, relatively speaking.



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I disagree Bib. NBC showed a replay of KVN throwing an offensive lineman to the side to get into the backfield and then he weakly dove at the runners legs and missed a sure tackle for loss. I could swear that he missed every one on one tackle he attempted today. BYU will never win games like today's with this type of effort. Go back and watch the texas game IT WAS PHYSICAL and we won that matchup physically. Today was a sickening effort and it had nothing to do with talent since Texas has every bit as much NFL talent as ND has.

I have seen him completely bull rush OT and OG this year. And was it Houston where he almost sacked the QB by pushing the TE back into him? I've seen him take on OL head on and dominate. But he does seem to be missing a lot of tackles this year, relying on trying to trip them with his body parts rather than wrapping up and bringing them down. I wonder if he has a hurt shoulder??

frdbtr wrote:

Folks. We are playing tougher teams with bigger faster stronger players than before and they are doble teaming KVN. Last year he was a man among boys most games. Now he is a man among men. That was the knock on KVN in the draft analysis. Plays around rather than through. With NFL bound OL across from you, you can no longer count on speed alone. They are fast too. KVN is small, relatively speaking.



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I disagree Bib. NBC showed a replay of KVN throwing an offensive lineman to the side to get into the backfield and then he weakly dove at the runners legs and missed a sure tackle for loss. I could swear that he missed every one on one tackle he attempted today. BYU will never win games like today's with this type of effort. Go back and watch the texas game IT WAS PHYSICAL and we won that matchup physically. Today was a sickening effort and it had nothing to do with talent since Texas has every bit as much NFL talent as ND has.

ND OL would eat Texas OL alive.



And more than once NBC showed KVN breaking through a double team and making a tackle, missing but forcing the runner to change directions into another tackler and specifically mentioned it. Once they also mentioned that he broke through and did that after being held and having his face mask grabbed.



ND focused on T Hill, KVN, and Hoffman and contained all three pretty well.



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