Dissolve the MWC...

Ok so with all the MWC expansion rumors swirling, I am not really thrilled with any sort of expansion, and even as the boards biggest BSU homer (and WAC "lover") I think BSU to the MWC is a good addition, but it makes a long conference season, and it still leaves the MWC with a lot of garbage on the bottom end....



So, if I could have my druthers, this is what I would like to see happen. Not a MWC expansion, but a dissolution, and reformation as a new conference with some WAC and some MWC teams. This conference would not only be very interesting each week (better games at LES), it should easily become an AQ team.



I like 9 teams, but I added Hawaii so with the Hawaii rule, I think ten teams would be fine.



Here are my teams and why they would be in the conference:



BYU - no brainer

Utah - no brainer

TCU - no brainer

BSU - no brainer

Fresno State - 40,000 fans, good national reputation, good history, good track record against BCS teams

Hawaii - We all hate them, but they give us an additional game every other year, and they have been pretty good recently. Recruiting in the islands would be easier if we played there often...

Colorado State - They are a good fit, and have historically been good.

Nevada - They fit geographically, but are only in with UNLV being included.

UNLV - Have they ever been good? They are only in with UNR being included. Vegas is sort of in the mountains...?

Air Force - I like them a lot, but as a service academy they could easily go independent and be just fine....



Others I considered and why they did not make the cut (in order of who I would want most if they could squeeze in):



San Diego State - San Diego is not and will never be a good college football town. Recruiting is their only draw.

Tulsa - They are good, but dont really fit and are sort of looked upon as 2nd tier to OU in their own state

Utah State - if they were in, we wouldnt ever have to schedule them as an OOC team....

Wyoming - Laramie is a hole

New Mexico - They just dont really bring much to the table...in my opinion

Houston - One hit wonder



This would be a football conference only, and other sports would not be affected......



Thoughts?

Hawaii is too far. Fresno's reputuation far exceeds their actual on-field production. 40,000 fans overstates their home attendance (under 38k in 2008; barely 36k in 2007; 38k in 2006; 39k in 2005; 38K in 2004). Nevada is a no-nothing program that brings little more than a Wyoming or Colorado St.



Here's the bottom line. Football in the mountain regions simply isn't that big. There are only a handful of programs worth talking about. And only two that have any real attendance at their games: BYU and Utah. Boise might if they had a bigger stadium, but they've had games this year that didn't fill their 35k stadium. There just aren't a lot of people in these states. Having two teams from small states (Nevada) makes no sense. You would have to include Houston where there are actually some people and if they got good could have a decent following. I'd take a second team in Texas just get a trip there each year.

So it took 11 years to rebuild the MWC to what it is today after leaving the WAC and now we want to do the same thing again? Bad Idea.

Terrible idea. We'd have no bowl games. Not only that, the MWC is finally establishing itself as the 3rd best conference in the country and now we want to dissolve it? Yeah, we have bottom dwellers, but a conference has to have bottom dwellers, what conference doesn't?

Silly idea. 7 of the teams of the MWC have been together since 1980. Wyoming, NM, and CSU all have had good seasons in this decade. Sure UNLV and SDSU seem hapless these days and lack serious local support. New Mexico has more people than Idaho and Albuquerque is bigger than Boise. UNLV is a name basketball school and NM has long succeeded in basketball as well.



Lose SDSU and it would serious hurt SoCal recruiting. SDSU still has more potential than any of the weaker programs in the conference and just needs to put it all together.



We already have too many people nationally that do not know that BYU and Utah are no longer WAC schools. The MWC teams lost a lot of status trying to start a new conference and we are now getting the nationwide respect.



Dissolving the MWC is as bad an idea as dropping teams.

IMO, the ONLY current WAC team I would go get is Boise St. The only other team I would consider is Fresno St. And only because it's a feather in the cap to tell California recruits. I would go after Houston to get another in road in Texas. Tulsa wouldn't be a bad add either also because of its proximity to Texas. If the MWC were to expand to 12 teams I would, if I were commissioner, extend invites to Boise, Tulsa and Houston.

88Coug wrote:
Silly idea. 7 of the teams of the MWC have been together since 1980. Wyoming, NM, and CSU all have had good seasons in this decade. Sure UNLV and SDSU seem hapless these days and lack serious local support. New Mexico has more people than Idaho and Albuquerque is bigger than Boise. UNLV is a name basketball school and NM has long succeeded in basketball as well.



Lose SDSU and it would serious hurt SoCal recruiting. SDSU still has more potential than any of the weaker programs in the conference and just needs to put it all together.



We already have too many people nationally that do not know that BYU and Utah are no longer WAC schools. The MWC teams lost a lot of status trying to start a new conference and we are now getting the nationwide respect.



Dissolving the MWC is as bad an idea as dropping teams.

Not only that, BYU, Utah, Colorado State, and Wyoming have basically been conference mates since 1938 (with New Mexico added to that group in 1951). Tradition means a lot in college football and basketball, and I see no reason to ditch several of BYU's long standing rivals. I think you have to look at realignment in terms of football and basketball, because I suspect any team snubbed in football will reciprocate in basketball.



There's no point in destoying the MWC brand that has taken 10 years to build. I'm fine with adding Boise State, Houston, and one of Fresno State, Tulsa, or Nevada.



I did enjoy your circular reasoning for adding UNLV and Nevada to your football conference.

I really wouldn't mind adding Utah St to the MWC. They have a strong basketball tradition and they're getting better in football. Also, I do like the fact that if they were in the MWC we wouldn't have to schedule them as a non-conference game. If they were in the MWC they would have to come to the Marriott Center every year so we could spank them on our court!

USU brings nothing to the table for the MWC. The Utah market is already cornered by BYU and Utah, so adding USU adds a team without adding a market to increase revenues. In otehr words, bringing in USU costs $$$. Bad move.



Add 3 teams, and go with divisions of 6. Add BSU, Fresno State and Houston. Best 3 programs and markets to add for revenue sports. Plus, if TCU ever gets their wish and joins the Big 12, having Houston in the MWC is very helpful.

Lawboy wrote:
USU brings nothing to the table for the MWC. The Utah market is already cornered by BYU and Utah, so adding USU adds a team without adding a market to increase revenues. In otehr words, bringing in USU costs $$$. Bad move.



Add 3 teams, and go with divisions of 6. Add BSU, Fresno State and Houston. Best 3 programs and markets to add for revenue sports. Plus, if TCU ever gets their wish and joins the Big 12, having Houston in the MWC is very helpful.

Saying they bring nothing to the table is a big exaggeration. It may not bring a big market or new recruiting ground, but to say that they bring nothing to the table is wrong. It wouldn't be my first choice to bring them into the MWC but I honestly wouldn't mind it. I think they're getting better at football and they've always been good at basketball. With that being said I'd prefer BSU, Houston, and Tulsa over USU. I feel like Fresno is going down hill.

OK I got the responses I figured I would on this thread, and I agree with some but disagree with others.



My main reasoning for posting is because I have to admit as a BYU fan that I feel like we have 2 conference games every season that are worth looking forward to. The rest are sleep inducing blowouts (and have been nearly forever).



I also think there is good football in the "Mountain West" region and to not capitalize on it and proactively take steps to become what we want to (AQ school, football power, in a great conference, etc., etc.) will in time actually destroy momentum created by the current MWC. At least that is what I want. Though the MWC provides some of that, we are still on the outside looking in, and the bottom 2/3 is crap, regardless of tradition, location, etc.



So here is my analysis of some of the discussion around this topic:



MWC has established brand name and reputation

Utah, BYU, and TCU have established this, everyone else is living off the big three. The reputation will follow the big three, regardless of conference name, brand image, etc.



Hawaii is too far

It is a long way, but if we want to argue that playing SDSU is crucial to fertile recruiting grounds, than how does that same argument not hold water for Hawaii. They are good, and would pose challenges every year. It is already a bitter rivalry. Why not play them in conference? We would also benefit greatly from the extra game every other year.



We would have no bowl games

Well, do we have great ones now? An autobid to the BCS would be a step up from where we are now (which would happen with this reorganized conference) and the other bowls would fall into place quickly.



MWC is already the 3rd best conference in the country

The top is great, but the bottom and middle are statistically keeping us at 7th, not 3rd.



Losing SDSU would hurt recruiting

Not sure about this. I lived in San Diego for years, and many other teams seem to recruit SoCal without playing SDSU every year. I would not be surprised if SDSU football died if the Chargers moved. No stadium, no funds, no fan support, etc. They may hopefully be on the upward trend, but trust me, only 12,000 people in San Diego care.



Fresno State would bring nothing to the table

They have some how captured quite a bit of media attention by winning big OOC games (though not in the last couple of years). They have a brand name, a reputation, and have consistently produced good NFL talent. They have a fan base, and are from another recruiting hotbed (northern california).



Tradition

How many of you really (honestly and truly) get really excited and pumped for our big games against Wyoming or New Mexico? How many of us road trip to these games? I could also ask the same about UNLV and SDSU, but since they at least have the beach and Vegas they are good locations, but bad football. I say break tradition and create new ones that in a year or two would be better than what we had.



Tulsa

I am not big on Tulsa. They did beat us a few years back, but they to Oklahoma as UVU is to BYU. Not a good fit.



Houston

Maybe. They really dont have a big share of the market on entertainment in Houston. They are also not consistently good. Maybe it would help recruiting, but who knows.



Nevada/UNLV

This was my pick...still very uneasy about this. Nevada has been good in football, but they dont have tons of support. UNLV is in the same situation, but they have not been good in football. Maybe these two should just play basketball.



Utah State

The more I think about this, the more I like it. Easy road trip, good rivalry, dont have to play them OOC every year. Somebody has to be last place....plus, playing in the fertile recruiting grounds of Logan every other year could only help us get better.... ;)



I really just think somebody needs to strike while the iron is hot and while the timing is correct to guarantee us an auto BCS bid while we have the opportunity. While both MWC and WAC seem to be benefitting from the non-AQ rule currently, it has yet to be seen if a one loss team has a chance of getting in the show. Becoming an AQ conference with better regular season games would make BYU football much more fun. Just my two, maybe three cents...... :D

westidahocougar wrote:
My main reasoning for posting is because I have to admit as a BYU fan that I feel like we have 2 conference games every season that are worth looking forward to. The rest are sleep inducing blowouts (and have been nearly forever).

This is the most amusing statement from a big WAC and BSU supporter. I appreciate you're a BYU fan too, but do you honestly believe that there is any less of this in the WAC than the MWC? I would dare say that if the 2 leagues were combined, the bottom half of the new conference would exclusively be WAC teams.

hawkwing wrote:

My main reasoning for posting is because I have to admit as a BYU fan that I feel like we have 2 conference games every season that are worth looking forward to. The rest are sleep inducing blowouts (and have been nearly forever).

This is the most amusing statement from a big WAC and BSU supporter. I appreciate you're a BYU fan too, but do you honestly believe that there is any less of this in the WAC than the MWC? I would dare say that if the 2 leagues were combined, the bottom half of the new conference would exclusively be WAC teams.

What's funny is, given recent history, I thought he was referring to Utah and UNM, given the fact that all other BYU MWC games have been "sleep-inducing blowouts" over the past two years.

Why not bring in Navy? good team and a military team to match AFA. The problem is that they are East coast. If Hawaii is a long distance why not Navy. New tv market and a national presence with their alumni.



Also what about SMU? they have been a nobody but this year they are in a bowl. With June Jones as coach they should get better. Also a religious name to match BYU and TCU.

BSU, Nevada yes

Fresno, Hawaii, heck no

byutx wrote:
BSU, Nevada yes

Fresno, Hawaii, heck no

I actually heard today on the radio that the only three teams in the WAC that average over 30k attendance are Boise, Fresno, and Hawaii....



The more I think about Nevada the more I dislike them. Fresno and Hawaii both have good football tradition and are dedicated to football.



As far as being a BSU and WAC homer, I dont think I am out of line saying that as a BSU fan I do get bored with many conference games. I feel the same way about BYU's games too though. That was my whole reason for starting the thread.



Nothing to do with the WAC or BSU, just trying to improve BYU's situation, which could be improved by having a conference with teams historically and recently dedicated to winning football. That would make my BYU fan experience much much better than it is.



It would be great if we were in an AQ conference, and it isnt going to happen unless there is some reorganization, so why not do it right if you are going to do it at all......

hawkwing wrote:

My main reasoning for posting is because I have to admit as a BYU fan that I feel like we have 2 conference games every season that are worth looking forward to. The rest are sleep inducing blowouts (and have been nearly forever).

This is the most amusing statement from a big WAC and BSU supporter. I appreciate you're a BYU fan too, but do you honestly believe that there is any less of this in the WAC than the MWC? I would dare say that if the 2 leagues were combined, the bottom half of the new conference would exclusively be WAC teams.

I am also surprised by westidahocougar's sentiment. As I look around the AQ conferences over the past several years, it seems to me that teams who do not have a good number of "boring" conference games tend to finish near the bottom. Ask Texas fans or Cincinatti fans how many of their conference games this year have really gotten them excited. Probably about as many as interestered a lot of Cougar fans this year. Beating up on bad teams is the mark of every great team. Now if you want to criticize the number of NON-conference snoozers, that would be a different thing.

Cougy_Monster wrote:
Do you guys really think the MWC is the only conference with boring conference games?



Haven't any of you watched a Big-10 game this year?



Every conference has to have losers, and if we replace our current bottom feeders with good teams from the WAC, we'll just change the names of the bottom feeders.



However, I am in favor of any expansion or dissolution that results in a conference that mathematically qualifies as a BCS AQ conference.

What are you talking about, you mean to tell me you found those Iowa, come from behind, need 4 turnovers in one quarter from the other team, games boring?



You're right, me too.