Hine TD return. Good call. Watched again, and have evidence

It was a block in the back, (they called a hold) and it was on 32 instead of Fua (5) who was also in the area. It was at about the 20 yard line, and it was pretty blatant. This is exactly where Hine ran only one second later, and found the huge hole with the guy landing on the ground. The flag flew to exactly this area. It was a good call, though not called properly (called as a "hold," and on the player just arriving to the scene, not the one that did it). The refs weren't the problem, the coaches and scheme are why we can't beat Utah.



Anyways. I have the pics of the screenshots if you want me to email them your way, or if someone wants to teach me a way to post them online (that doesn't require me signing up an account for something that I won't ever use again... ( a la snapfish, flickr, twitter, instagram, etc.)

I believe Postreply Full Editor and Upload Atachment at the bottom.

We would have lost the game even if we had a ref crew that actually called it straight. Nevertheless, I still blame Tom Holmoe for agreeing to PAC 10.2 officials. It should be a completely neutral officiating crew and Utah should have no problem with that. That is, unless they have an agenda in bringing their own crew.

So the penalty did occur, the refs just couldn't get the infraction right or the correct player identified. Nice officials you got there PAC-12.



Same thing happened on the PI can that was overturned. They called PI, which was reviewable for a tipped ball. Had they called holding - which was probably the correct call - the tipped ball wouldn't have mattered.

scott715 wrote:
I believe Postreply Full Editor and Upload Atachment at the bottom.

Whoa. I never knew such a thing existed.



Big Ups to Scott for telling me about it, and Hawk for creating it.



It says the file is too big. Screw it. There are three, and I don't want to go through the hassle of converting and uploading.

SpiffCoug wrote:
So the penalty did occur, the refs just couldn't get the infraction right or the correct player identified. Nice officials you got there PAC-12.



Same thing happened on the PI can that was overturned. They called PI, which was reviewable for a tipped ball. Had they called holding - which was probably the correct call - the tipped ball wouldn't have mattered.

Right?

I agree. I saw a Utah player get tackled in the middle of the field pretty much as Hine was catching the ball. I expected the flag to fly and as soon as it did I wasn't even excited about the long return because I knew it was coming back.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

I believe Postreply Full Editor and Upload Atachment at the bottom.

Whoa. I never knew such a thing existed.



Big Ups to Scott for telling me about it, and Hawk for creating it.



It says the file is too big. Screw it. There are three, and I don't want to go through the hassle of converting and uploading.

If you tell me how big your attachments are I can change the size limitations.

hawkwing wrote:

scott715 wrote:
I believe Postreply Full Editor and Upload Atachment at the bottom.

Whoa. I never knew such a thing existed.



Big Ups to Scott for telling me about it, and Hawk for creating it.



It says the file is too big. Screw it. There are three, and I don't want to go through the hassle of converting and uploading.

If you tell me how big your attachments are I can change the size limitations.

I have a series of 3 pics, and the largest is 3.73 MB. The other 2 are under 3 MB. If you want to do that, I would upload them. It is pretty open shut as to what happened. If it isn't too much work, go ahead and I'll upload :)

Just changed the upload file size limitation. You should be good to go now.

Yeah, on the return, you can see some Utah player in the middle of the field go flying out of the play. Can't see who pushed the guy, but it was clear that someone did. I think the refs got that one correct, as they did on the Hoff reach at the 1.



The only calls I have an issue with were on the first series when McGill pushed Hoff off of his route with the ball coming his way. That was PI. The other was the last play of the game, when the defender blocked Mathews from making a play on the ball without looking back to see it. The whole tackle thing or whatever was after. The issue was he got in the way and impeded Mathews without making a play on the ball. And the ball was catchable as it hit the U defender directly in the back.



Also, and to the PI called back on BYU, the refs got it right. It would have been a PI, except for the fact that Unga got his hands on the ball and re-routed the ball making it then uncatchable. In order for a PI to occur, you have to actually interfere with the receivers ability catch the ball. After Unga got his hands on it, it was no longer catchable, so not a PI.



The refs were not as bad as thought, but they still missed some things. But overall, BYU blew its chances. First and goal from the 3 gets 3 points. first and goal from the 13 gt 0 points. I could go on, but it was the inefficiency in the scoring zone that cost BYU the game, and which also won Utah the game. Utah had 2 TDs in 4 tries. BYU had 1 in 5 or 6 tries. That was the difference in the game.

Lawboy wrote:
BYU blew its chances. First and goal from the 3 gets 3 points. first and goal from the 13 gt 0 points. I could go on, but it was the inefficiency in the scoring zone that cost BYU the game, and which also won Utah the game. Utah had 2 TDs in 4 tries. BYU had 1 in 5 or 6 tries. That was the difference in the game.

Right after the game Greg Wrubell tweeted pretty much the same thing:

If red zone appearance = 7 possible points, Utah scored 20 of 28 available red zone points. BYU scored 13 of 35 available red zone points.

At times I think this offense is close to a breakthrough, other times I feel like it's going to be a very long year.

Ty Detmer, John Beck, Max Hall--all would have won that game had they been the QB. I am just appalled at Hill's passing. I gave him a pass in the Virginia game, a driving rain storm, but then it was the same thing against Texas--except Texas couldn't defend the run. Then I was sure after two weeks of practice, Hill would come through against Utah, but no, it was even worse. Yes, a few balls were dropped, but rarely were any of his passes on target, usually behind, or way over the head. If he doesn't get better fat, or if Olsen isn't given a chance, BYU will not go to a bowl game this year. All the good teams will stack the box, keep Hill contained and dare him to beat them with the pass, if he can't we lost to Wisconsin, ND, GT, Boise, Houston..and there goes the bowl game.



What I am trying to reconcile is both Bronco and Anae saying publicly during fall camp that Hill is a very accurate passer. He is? he was? where did that guy go?

Rule #1 with coaches: Ignore what they say. Seriously. Bronco and BYU coaches are not going to out players publically and talk about their deficiencies. They will do it privately. So ignore the coach speak, and next time, listen to the commentators who actually attend practice. They can speak more freely, and usually do.



Same goes iwth what Bronco said to the media yesterday. Ignore it. He is not going to publically blast Taysom, or Anae or anyone else. But I am certain that they are talking about it in meetings. It is not Bronco's style to slam his guys in public. Nor should it be.

golong wrote:
Ty Detmer, John Beck, Max Hall--all would have won that game had they been the QB. I am just appalled at Hill's passing. I gave him a pass in the Virginia game, a driving rain storm, but then it was the same thing against Texas--except Texas couldn't defend the run. Then I was sure after two weeks of practice, Hill would come through against Utah, but no, it was even worse. Yes, a few balls were dropped, but rarely were any of his passes on target, usually behind, or way over the head. If he doesn't get better fat, or if Olsen isn't given a chance, BYU will not go to a bowl game this year. All the good teams will stack the box, keep Hill contained and dare him to beat them with the pass, if he can't we lost to Wisconsin, ND, GT, Boise, Houston..and there goes the bowl game.



What I am trying to reconcile is both Bronco and Anae saying publicly during fall camp that Hill is a very accurate passer. He is? he was? where did that guy go?

There are a lot of great QB's that would have won that game for us, of course Detmer, Beck and Hall would have (at their prime anyway). But what about heaps, Nelson, Olson or any other QBs we have recently had at our disposal? I still think Hill is young and raw. He is playing much earlier than Ty Detmer, Steve young, Robbie Bosco, and many others; and he is just a little over a year off his mission. The guy's passing accuracy is terrible in games right now, but that is bound to improve as he gets his timing and feel for the game and (new) offense down - don't forget we are installing a totally new offense this year. There are a lot of factors in play here. I think it is way to early to give up on Hill yet.

Here they are:


20130923_161540.jpg

20130923_161606.jpg

20130923_161625 (1).jpg

Who is the Ute on the 23 yard line and how did he get on the ground?



But looks like BlueIs' theory might be right. There was a foul, the inept officials said it was the wrong foul (looks like a block in the back, not a hold) and got it on the wrong player (not Fua, not sure who that is)

When I first saw the play at the stadium and also saw the replay on the video boards, my first impression was the Utah player tripped over the other Utah player that was on the ground. I am still going with that because my first impressions are never wrong!! 8)

This evidence shows the BYU player falling over the Utah player on the ground and into the other Utah player. Is that a foul? So, the Utah player can block our guy into his teammate's back and the foul is on us? I still think it was a bad call.

KingCoug wrote:
We would have lost the game even if we had a ref crew that actually called it straight. Nevertheless, I still blame Tom Holmoe for agreeing to PAC 10.2 officials. It should be a completely neutral officiating crew and Utah should have no problem with that. That is, unless they have an agenda in bringing their own crew.

while is is 'sour grapesish" to say i have to disagree. different refs probably has different outcome. i saw so much crap that nobody even talks about.



yes our offense lost us the game but everybody seems to think that utah is way superior and coached way better but lets not forget the game came down to one play and we outgained them offensively. it was not like they blew us out. a few different calls or plays and we win that game.



in my opinion we lost because wilson is better than hill right now mainly. coaches, scheme, and refs were a problem but it was better qb play that own them the game, barely.