Resurrecting a dead horse: Interesting Heaps article

http://cjonline.com/sports/2013-09-05/ku-quarterback-heaps-still-driven-be-best" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I only make this mention because at the time, many Cougar fans insisted that reports of a divided locker room were merely rumors, probably propagated by those sympathetic to Jake Heaps. Here, even Coach Doman acknowledges the division in the locker room.



The strife between the two QBs and their friends was a cancer that stripped away any chance of success. While I personally believe it was primarily inspired by an politically astute Nelson (I have my reasons), I don't think it's necessary to point fingers at anyone other than the coaches who should have recognized it and fixed it.



Unfortunately, I think some of these same antics have somewhat hindered Taysom Hill's development. The only difference is that Hill was infinitely more popular than was Jake Heaps.



The residue of that cancer will not fully be eradicated until the end of this year after Taysom has had a full year to develop as a team leader.



Maybe I really posted this so that I do not have to think about the game this Saturday against Texas. I'm very worried.



GO COUGS

Amen :)



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It's very good to see you here, imua. How are things?

I prefer not to speak ill of current or former BYU players, but suffice it to say, I'm glad the Heaps / Nelson era is over at BYU.

My biggest dissapointment with this whole situation was that the coaches and senior leadership allowed the division to happen. The players all paid a big price for not putting the team first and the many of the coaches paid a really big price for allowing it to happen.



I say good luck to Heaps and hopefully he turns Kansas around.

Is it possible Nelson is the worst thing to happen to BYU football since the dark days of Crowton? It almost feels like the last 3 years the boys were back wearing the bibs again.

mizzoucoug wrote:
Is it possible Nelson is the worst thing to happen to BYU football since the dark days of Crowton? It almost feels like the last 3 years the boys were back wearing the bibs again.

It's certainly my belief that Nelson was the most destructive force to undermine BYU Football since Crowton. But I also insist that I do not hate him, and as a Cougar, I will always appreciate his efforts on the field, however lackluster they may have been. He's one of ours, always will be, and for that we do owe him some measure of loyalty.

mizzoucoug wrote:
Is it possible Nelson is the worst thing to happen to BYU football since the dark days of Crowton? It almost feels like the last 3 years the boys were back wearing the bibs again.

Not only possible, but absolutely true.

mizzoucoug wrote:
Is it possible Nelson is the worst thing to happen to BYU football since the dark days of Crowton? It almost feels like the last 3 years the boys were back wearing the bibs again.

The worst thing to happen in ten years is a QB who got us to bowl games and winning seasons. We're pretty spoiled.

mcgregor wrote:

Is it possible Nelson is the worst thing to happen to BYU football since the dark days of Crowton? It almost feels like the last 3 years the boys were back wearing the bibs again.

It's certainly my belief that Nelson was the most destructive force to undermine BYU Football since Crowton. But I also insist that I do not hate him, and as a Cougar, I will always appreciate his efforts on the field, however lackluster they may have been. He's one of ours, always will be, and for that we do owe him some measure of loyalty.

Good job stating this so delicately.

Riley's "effort" and abs and hair were never in question, he always gave max effort, to his running, grit, playing with injuries, and recovery. Oh ya and max effort to his "leadership", politicking, divisiveness, covering up injury, bamboozeling coaches, acting "tougher than all of us", his last official act/pass/INT as a Senior; even his max effort to compensate for a shortage of talent.

It's unfortunate that many of this program's sins now get hung on Riley when there were many other problems. Karma is a rough thing. But it's also sad that coaches couldn't find a way to give Jake a year to acclimate his freshman year, then to take over his soph year. It would have been hard enough as a very young kid to be qb. It's hard enough for THill and he has so much more cred at BYU as an RM, a 23 year old, previously super athlete (let's hope his speed returns), AND most of all no upper classman brokering back room deals with other upper classman. But for Jake to be thrown to the wolves with very little back up by team members, a divided locker room, and divided coaching staff.....its about time history has caught up to Riley to get his share of the lumps that were put onto an easy target in Heaps.

Smartest decision Heaps ever made was to get out of Cougar town to try and at least salvage his college career to say nothing of his dreams of playing in the NFL, as remote as his chances seem at this point.

Thanks for the article Mcgregor. Many more fans and readers can finally accept the truth that was once so hard for them to swallow regarding Riley and a divided team and coaches. You were of course, always right on this issue and very unfairly took hits for your tweets. History and time has vindicated you, though I always agreed.

Oh and I Almost forgot--hey Bib, what do you have to say about all Jake's "handlers" now??

According to the article, HIs parents hardly even knew of his transfer.

I believe it is more likely that Heaps was the bigger long term problem to the program than Nelson, and honestly, neither one of them compare to the problem that was Crowton. No other person has had the team within minutes of being shut down for good except Crowton.

hawkwing wrote:
I believe it is more likely that Heaps was the bigger long term problem to the program than Nelson . . . .

Interesting. I will have to hear your thoughts on that sometime. Doesn't seem to jive from sources reporting uniformly the contrary.



I guess you could say that Jake's lack of leadership and distance from his mother would have proven to be a greater source of problems over the long haul? Is that what you mean?



Just seems hard to compare it to bullying and intimidation in the locker room, telling certain players that "voluntary" workouts are at a false time and then telling the teammates at the real time that the others failed to show or care, and things of that nature. Particularly when Nelson did similar, but watered down, stuff to Taysom. I just can't see that personality being easier on a team than a guy whose still nursing.



But I don't pretend to know everything, so I'm very interested in the rest of the story.

This is all really interesting, and I've heard all about the divided locker room and how Riley politicked against Jake, yada yada yada. But what gets it for me is that when Jake had the chance to play -- he was designated THE MAN, given the keys to the proverbial Ferrari -- he sucked. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn most of the time. I've never seen so many open receivers just flat out missed by a BYU QB and I've seen them all since Sheide. I thought he had turned the corner in the Utah game his Freshman year when he really played a great game and BYU would have won but for some bizarre happenings. But then the next year he came out and fell on his face. If he had made plays and played well when he had the chance, he would have cemented his position as the starter and the rest of the team would have come around. Politics and behind the scenes stuff happens all the time on most teams, but the players that make plays when they get the chance are the ones who keep playing and create loyalty among their teammates. It didn't happen with Jake for whatever reason and I'm as disappointed as any Cougar fan. Hope he has success wherever he ends up because he seems like a nice kid.

So much for not disparaging former players.

But if you insist that Jake was a bigger problem than Riley, that's fine. That's how you want to remember the past few years.

Heaps should not have played his freshman year. Many of you were right on that. But you were not always right for the most salient reasons. Heaps should not have played bc there was the air(ball) apparent waiting, salivating, and yes, working hard for his turn. And he was not going to allow some greener than grass freshman who clearly outplayed him in spring practices and game to ruin his own ambitions of being the next Steve Young. And so, Riley had to step up his game where he could actually gain some ground--he went to work in the locker room. And yes, he worked hard physically. But he went about stripping away whatever support he could from Jake, including not inviting him to summer workouts that first summer; and getting as many allies as he could. Gaskins gave Riley a fish. Riley gave Jake a stone. And he cajoled Chambers either by direct suggestion or inciting emotional reactions to do his ugly work in Broncos office.

So, was Jake really the "longer term problem" just bc he, like ALOT of Five star freshman show up with ego and show time? Coaches could have easily said "Sit boy" but what would he have watched? A huck-a-duck qb (who still can't make all the throws) that would rely on a tuck, duck, and run routine? But you are right. Heaps should have never had the audacity to show up an upper classman in practice or believe that he had far superior skills than the halfback qb. BYU's greatness came through the air not running into brick walls to prove talent. And what of the Oline that should have been protecting a drop back passer, but had neither the toughness nor coaching (Reynolds/Weber) nor the commitment to max protect a young kid the majority of the team was content to throw to the wolves.

I will give you one thing Hawk, nothing was worse than Crowton.

Stories long since over and there's little benefit in rehashing it now especially since both kids are done and gone from BYU.



Uniformly is an interesting word though, because the uniform opinion I have heard from multiple sources close to the situation are completely opposite from yours. I think it's safe to say there were divisions and immaturities all around.



I hope both are able to achieve levels of happiness in their life and grow into upstanding citizens.



Publically I think this is the last time I'll discuss Heaps time at BYU.

BYZoo wrote:
This is all really interesting, and I've heard all about the divided locker room and how Riley politicked against Jake, yada yada yada. But what gets it for me is that when Jake had the chance to play -- he was designated THE MAN, given the keys to the proverbial Ferrari -- he sucked. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn most of the time. I've never seen so many open receivers just flat out missed by a BYU QB and I've seen them all since Sheide. I thought he had turned the corner in the Utah game his Freshman year when he really played a great game and BYU would have won but for some bizarre happenings. But then the next year he came out and fell on his face. If he had made plays and played well when he had the chance, he would have cemented his position as the starter and the rest of the team would have come around. Politics and behind the scenes stuff happens all the time on most teams, but the players that make plays when they get the chance are the ones who keep playing and create loyalty among their teammates. It didn't happen with Jake for whatever reason and I'm as disappointed as any Cougar fan. Hope he has success wherever he ends up because he seems like a nice kid.

If you are looking for suck statistics then look no further than last Saturday. And I don't even dislike Hill or am I ready to give up on him. But if you don't think Riley looked as bad or worse than Heaps, check out the stats. Riley could move the ball bc he was a run risk. Credit him.

As for "some bizarre happening" those who have ears to hear will hear. It's not a mystery. Yes he made some mistakes like working out privately too much that last summer. But more than improving his game, he should have been cementing if not defending his position from the Grand Machiavellian schemer of our BYU football days.

BYZoo wrote:
This is all really interesting, and I've heard all about the divided locker room and how Riley politicked against Jake, yada yada yada. But what gets it for me is that when Jake had the chance to play -- he was designated THE MAN, given the keys to the proverbial Ferrari -- he sucked. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn most of the time. I've never seen so many open receivers just flat out missed by a BYU QB and I've seen them all since Sheide. I thought he had turned the corner in the Utah game his Freshman year when he really played a great game and BYU would have won but for some bizarre happenings. But then the next year he came out and fell on his face. If he had made plays and played well when he had the chance, he would have cemented his position as the starter and the rest of the team would have come around. Politics and behind the scenes stuff happens all the time on most teams, but the players that make plays when they get the chance are the ones who keep playing and create loyalty among their teammates. It didn't happen with Jake for whatever reason and I'm as disappointed as any Cougar fan. Hope he has success wherever he ends up because he seems like a nice kid.

This is basically all that matters. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Jake was still the unquestioned starter and could have ended all questions about his leadership and commitment to the team by playing well. He didn't; which had the adverse affect of solidifying all the doubts and question marks.



And to know what? The EXACT same thing will happen to Taysom Hill IF he continues to perform poorly on the field. Leadership is great. Being an off-season captain is great. It doesn't mean jacksquat if it doesn't accompany actual production during the game.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
So much for not disparaging former players.

My point was that between the two, Heaps was the bigger problem than Nelson, I didn't and don't mean that as a disparagement. I honestly don't think either was that big of a long term problem for BYU. Yeah, we've had 3 years of bad QB play. Hardly the end of the world. Didn't appear to hurt QB recruiting. Neither one had much if any effect on the program in the long term.



If you want to talk about long term problems, think about players that rape women, or go on to beat their girlfriends or go on MTV shows. Now that's more serious.

hawkwing wrote:

So much for not disparaging former players.

My point was that between the two, Heaps was the bigger problem than Nelson, I didn't and don't mean that as a disparagement. I honestly don't think either was that big of a long term problem for BYU. Yeah, we've had 3 years of bad QB play. Hardly the end of the world. Didn't appear to hurt QB recruiting. Neither one had much if any effect on the program in the long term.



If you want to talk about long term problems, think about players that rape women, or go on to beat their girlfriends or go on MTV shows. Now that's more serious.

Agreed. Good point.