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Is Major Conference Realignment Done?

by YNot · 4/22/2013

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YNot
Or does this just fuel the fire of the "BYU to the Big 12" contingency?



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I actually think this substantially increases the likelihood of the idea of BYU to the Big 12. From about .001 percent to 1% probability. Fwiw, I see Texas and Oklahoma jumping to the ACC or PAC 12 in about 10 years as more likely than BYU to the Big 12.
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scott715
Well it leaves no partners to join the Big12 with us unless they take BSU. Louisville is off the table. Unless it happens before they join the ACC.
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Fido
The Big 12 hasn't shown much drive to expand in numbers lately. If they can't add who they want I don't see them growing anytime soon.
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Cougarfan87
Fido wrote:
The Big 12 hasn't shown much drive to expand in numbers lately. If they can't add who they want I don't see them growing anytime soon.


Agreed. The only reason they might expand is for a championship game. But is a championship game worth slicing the pie two more ways? I'm not sure about that.
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Cougs_Rule
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.
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Cougarfan87
Cougs_Rule wrote:
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.


I tend to agree with you. Utah has gotten brutalized in the Pac 12 and are surely the joke of that conference along with Colorado. We don't want the same thing to happen to us that happened to Utah, and Arizona/Arizona State before us.



I like being able to craft a respectable schedule that builds confidence. Perhaps over time, the team will become a perrenial power and joining a conference at that point would make more sense.



I don't think it is likely because as long as BYU is a religiously affiliated school, it will be limited in those we recruit because they have to fit here. I would rather have good to very good years with the occasional exceptional team that is represented by great young men. The special season will come. We make plenty of money through our current deal to keep a quality program. We really don't need to be part of a BCS conference.



As for reputation, we are already being included in all the conversations concerning BCS teams, so Independence has already raised our reputation. If we continue to bulk up on BCS teams that are beatable, and play one or two a year that are a stretch, that reputation will continue to rise.



I do miss some of our old MWC foes, but perhaps, once some of the bitterness has passed, we can schedule games with Air Force, Colorado State, etc. like we have with Boise State.
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frdbtr
Cougs_Rule wrote:
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.


You are right that BYU currently isn't recruiting to the level of Big 12 competition but if BYU were in a conference like the Big 12 it would open lots of new doors to get that kind of talent. There are lots of kids out there who are not LDS but would love to play at a school with BYU's moral codes. Tim Tebow is the type of kid I am referring to who may have considered BYU if we had been in a conference like the Big 12. With BYU having no chance at a national title, these kids won't even give us a second glance.
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Cougarfan87
frdbtr wrote:
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.


You are right that BYU currently isn't recruiting to the level of Big 12 competition but if BYU were in a conference like the Big 12 it would open lots of new doors to get that kind of talent. There are lots of kids out there who are not LDS but would love to play at a school with BYU's moral codes. Tim Tebow is the type of kid I am referring to who may have considered BYU if we had been in a conference like the Big 12. With BYU having no chance at a national title, these kids won't even give us a second glance.


Couldn't Utah have said the same thing? The problem is that recruiting doesn't just rise ot the level of the big boys because you are in a BCS conference. No doubt it might improve a little, but for most top flight kids, they aren't giving a second look at the majority of BCS schools. They are interested in the schools that have consistently been in the discussion for a national championship. They are looking at the prestige/tradition of a football program. That is why Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, Florida, Alabama, Florida State, etc. will always outrecruit the other BCS programs they go up against.



We have to build a reputation first, before recruiting will improve, much like Florida State did under Bobby Bowden. That reputation comes from winning tough games year in and year out. I like the gradual approach of Independence better for BYU then the get thrown in the deep end approach that Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State took. I'm not saying we wouldn't have jumped at the chance, but sometimes we get saved from ourselves.
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SpiffCoug
This notion among BYU fans that if BYU were in the Big 12 or another BCS conference our recruiting will change/improve is something I've never bought into. BYU's recruiting is what it is.



BYU's prime targets are the tiers of LDS kids across the nation. The top-tier ones we've lost to big time programs (Teo, Ngata, etc), I don't think would have come to BYU if BYU were a BCS program.



You either want the BYU experience and everything that goes with it (Honor Code, no drinking, no sex, mission, etc.) or you don't. If you don't want it, you're not coming to BYU regardless of the conference or teams BYU plays.



I think the same thing for non-LDS top tier kids willing to live with BYU's moral codes either they'll come here or they won't.



I like independence and I think we'll stay here.
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Screamineagle
Cougarfan87 wrote:
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.


I tend to agree with you. Utah has gotten brutalized in the Pac 12 and are surely the joke of that conference along with Colorado. We don't want the same thing to happen to us that happened to Utah, and Arizona/Arizona State before us.



I like being able to craft a respectable schedule that builds confidence. Perhaps over time, the team will become a perrenial power and joining a conference at that point would make more sense. I totally agree.My only concern is scheduling and so far that seems to be working out ok.



I don't think it is likely because as long as BYU is a religiously affiliated school, it will be limited in those we recruit because they have to fit here. I would rather have good to very good years with the occasional exceptional team that is represented by great young men. The special season will come. We make plenty of money through our current deal to keep a quality program. We really don't need to be part of a BCS conference.



As for reputation, we are already being included in all the conversations concerning BCS teams, so Independence has already raised our reputation. If we continue to bulk up on BCS teams that are beatable, and play one or two a year that are a stretch, that reputation will continue to rise.



I do miss some of our old MWC foes, but perhaps, once some of the bitterness has passed, we can schedule games with Air Force, Colorado State, etc. like we have with Boise State.
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Screamineagle
It did not post my response.I totally agree with Cougarfan. My only concern is scheduling and that seems to be working out ok. Independence is wearing on me and I am starting to like it more.
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jonnylingo
Cougs_Rule wrote:
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.


i disagree. byu has a recruiting advantage that utah does not. put them in bcs conference and we land a fwe more of those highly sought after lds recruits. we have infrastructure in place to take off once in a bcs conference. utah still has a ton of catching up to do.
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Stirfry
jonnylingo wrote:
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.


i disagree. byu has a recruiting advantage that utah does not. put them in bcs conference and we land a fwe more of those highly sought after lds recruits. we have infrastructure in place to take off once in a bcs conference. utah still has a ton of catching up to do.


Agreed. We're not going to get the Teo's if we were BCS but we are losing kids now that are going to PAC12 schools that we would get more often. It could mean 1-3 recruits a year which would be a huge difference after 4 years (or 6 in our case). Not to mention what it would do for other sports.
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Cougs_Rule
Yep, and those high recruits are flocking to Utah aren't they?
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snoscythe
Stirfry wrote:
We're not going to get the Teo's


....bad example. Te'o was an Honor Code issue. The only chance we had at Te'o was to ignore HC issues or to send either of these two after him:



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frdbtr
Cougarfan87 wrote:
Cougs_Rule wrote:
Watching Utah struggle and seeing the projections for this next year, MORE THAN EVER, I support Independence. BYU would struggle year in and year out with an occasional if not rare better than average year. BYU is ot currently recruiting to the level of being able to compete week in and week out in the Big 12. I wish BYU could, but they can't. And a losing program YOY does not help recruiting.


You are right that BYU currently isn't recruiting to the level of Big 12 competition but if BYU were in a conference like the Big 12 it would open lots of new doors to get that kind of talent. There are lots of kids out there who are not LDS but would love to play at a school with BYU's moral codes. Tim Tebow is the type of kid I am referring to who may have considered BYU if we had been in a conference like the Big 12. With BYU having no chance at a national title, these kids won't even give us a second glance.


Couldn't Utah have said the same thing? The problem is that recruiting doesn't just rise ot the level of the big boys because you are in a BCS conference. No doubt it might improve a little, but for most top flight kids, they aren't giving a second look at the majority of BCS schools. They are interested in the schools that have consistently been in the discussion for a national championship. They are looking at the prestige/tradition of a football program. That is why Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, Florida, Alabama, Florida State, etc. will always outrecruit the other BCS programs they go up against.



We have to build a reputation first, before recruiting will improve, much like Florida State did under Bobby Bowden. That reputation comes from winning tough games year in and year out. I like the gradual approach of Independence better for BYU then the get thrown in the deep end approach that Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State took. I'm not saying we wouldn't have jumped at the chance, but sometimes we get saved from ourselves.


BYU has won a National championship. Even with utah's 2 BCS wins, they still don't have the national following that BYU has. BYU is recognized as a good top tier university, the honor code will not be a stumbling block for a lot of Christian kids who want the BYU lifestyle. utah's recruiting has already improved. BYU's would improve as well.
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Cougs_Rule
Except that for Tim Tebow and a bunch of other evangelical Christians, Mormons are a cult and wouldn't begin to consider BYU.

As for a NC, that was your Daddy's Bo Diddly Tech. It's nigh unto irrelevant at this point. Almost Even more than Utahs fading BCS glory when it comes to 16-18 year old recruits.

And don't confuse "national following" with recruiting potential.
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Stirfry
snoscythe wrote:
We're not going to get the Teo's


....bad example. Te'o was an Honor Code issue. The only chance we had at Te'o was to ignore HC issues or to send either of these two after him:


Maybe it was an HC issue, or maybe it was just Aaron Roderick being a :utard: but either way, we're not going to get many of the 5-star type mormon kids but we would get more 4-star type mormon kids and/or local non mormon kids. We do lose them to other schools and we'd get more of them if we were playing home and homes with Oklahoma and Texas each year.



I know Bronco once claimed we wouldn't lose any worthy Mormon kids but that was about as accurate as Kwhitt claiming he had the best qb situation in america at the time.
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Cougarfan87
Stirfry wrote:
Stirfry wrote:
We're not going to get the Teo's


....bad example. Te'o was an Honor Code issue. The only chance we had at Te'o was to ignore HC issues or to send either of these two after him:


Maybe it was an HC issue, or maybe it was just Aaron Roderick being a :utard: but either way, we're not going to get many of the 5-star type mormon kids but we would get more 4-star type mormon kids and/or local non mormon kids. We do lose them to other schools and we'd get more of them if we were playing home and homes with Oklahoma and Texas each year.



I know Bronco once claimed we wouldn't lose any worthy Mormon kids but that was about as accurate as Kwhitt claiming he had the best qb situation in america at the time.




That is my point. Recruiting might improve by two or three kids a year. Not all of those pan out. Even if they did, that isn't enough to make you a perrenial power and consistently in the National Championship picture, which is what the really good recruits want. Until we build a tradition of consistent superior performance in the present era and become one of those places that routinely sends multiple draft picks to the NFL, we will lose big in recruiting wars against the top tier BCS schools--and thus, we would be door mats to them year in and year out like Utah and Colorado. I would rather be able to pick my battles with those big boys like we do now, build up our reputation and program (Ziggy and BYU's defense last year certainly help), and then see where the chips fall when we have risen to that level. We're not there yet, and to go in to soon can be detrimental to a program. Just ask your Ewtah neighbors.
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frdbtr
Cougs_Rule wrote:
Except that for Tim Tebow and a bunch of other evangelical Christians, Mormons are a cult and wouldn't begin to consider BYU.

As for a NC, that was your Daddy's Bo Diddly Tech. It's nigh unto irrelevant at this point. Almost Even more than Utahs fading BCS glory when it comes to 16-18 year old recruits.

And don't confuse "national following" with recruiting potential.




You are judging the kid without knowing him. You could be right, and then maybe not. Plus I wasn't saying that BYU would have landed Tim Tebow if we had been in a major conference but if BYU was in the Big 12, new doors for recruiting would be opened for us.
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