Why Doman failed

Just read this. Focus on LaVell's comments about his Oline scheme. It tells the whole story. Oline play was too poor to succeed, with any QB.



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I loved reading that speech from Lavell. The line was the backbone of the success BYU had, and I hope 2J brings that back.

Yep, it is all on the offensive line. If you look at BYU's history over the last few years, you will see how much success BYU had with Lavell's Oline coach all the way up to 02 when Lance Reynolds took over the oline. (Reynolds was a very good running backs coach but seemed to struggle with the other positions he coached like Oline and TE) We struggled in 02 and 03, picked up Jeff Grimes. Got better in 04 but still not good, improved all the way to 06 when Grimes Left. In 07 we still had Grimes trained Olinemen, and did fine. (remember John Beck standing behind an Grimes trained Oline against TCU in 06). In 08 Max hall had to run for his life against TCU and utah, and we have not recovered since. I am hoping 2J is a coach in the mold of Grimes. Grimes used to keep the olinemen after practice to practice foot/hand work every day in 04 and up. He was a technician for fundamentals. Our Oline in 06 was nasty/physical. I guess we will see.

I agree with the point about the OLine, especially frdbtr's history.

But there are at least two more reasons, if we take this talk by Elder Edwards to be canonical writ:

1. LaVell talks at length about the importance of consistency, and even discusses in detail the importance of consistency of the quarterback. Over the last 3 years, nobody would mistake what we've had for consistency at or from that position.

2. This quote: "We want to release out [sic] tailback. That position generally leads our team in receptions. The next receiver is the tight end."

Very little plays to the tailback/fullback and poor tight end play leading Doman to use that position sparingly led to a lot of WR play with an inconsistent QB. That with a failing O-Line and it becomes pretty clear why he failed.



This talk makes me appreciate Anae's "predictable" offense all the more, though, as mastery of execution was viewed by LaVell as greater than. And Lavell's comments about not using Steve Young's speed to its full potential because it would take away from O-Line training in their base might also explain Anae not taking more downfield shots when he had John Beck's arm was more about blocking schemes and the additional time in pocket it would require than about confidence in Beck or the receivers.



Really appreciating Anae a lot more after reading this. Thanks for posting, Lawboy.

Glad Anae and 2J were both trained under French and Lavell.

Doman failed because he was in WAY over his head. He was a bad promotion by Bronco (something that I am getting used to at this point) and didn't know how to run basic offensive schemes against basic teams (including the responsibility of the Oline).



It isn't his fault that he failed the way he did, I am sure that he put the effort in, but just was an early promotion and not good enough. Quarterback development and offensive scheming was the biggest thing that he failed at.

The Oline does not 100% positively correlate. Translation: there are very, very, few true dichotomies (All or nothing thinking). While much can be improved on the Oline, and it is a big part of the systemic failure on offense over the past few years, there is much more to the analysis. Ie., If a QB is not a passing threat, more defenders can be deployed toward containing run; a limited O scheme is more easily attacked.

Googledocs won't open for me at work.



But I'm Cougs_Rule. OLine was a big problem. But it wasn't the OL that caused the QBs of the last two years to be so wildly inaccurate, ineffective and inefficient.



It was poor QBs playing poorly and inconsistently.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Googledocs won't open for me at work.



But I'm Cougs_Rule. OLine was a big problem. But it wasn't the OL that caused the QBs of the last two years to be so wildly inaccurate, ineffective and inefficient.



It was poor QBs playing poorly and inconsistently.

That's all part of it. It was also poor preparation of the entire offense, poor and inconsistent play calling, and a number of other things.



Each player is responsible for their play on the field. The OC is responsible for the results of the offense, and calling 8 WR bubble screens for a total of 4 yards in a game is poor play calling.

I worded my post badly. It wasn't 100% the offensive line's fault that Doman failed as the Ocoordinator. Everyone made valid points about QB play and play calling. I think that QB play would have been better if the Oline would have been better though. I think Doman's play calling was pretty bad most of the time and his Offensive preparation was also poor. Having said that, the Oline was starting to underperform as soon as Grimes left in 06 and was playing very poorly in 10 when Anae left. It got worse after Anae left but was already underperforming. I think we beat TCU in 09 with better Oline play. Max hall had 0 time against TCU and ran for his life all game against utah in 08 and 09 as well. Weber simply was not getting it done. Anae is one of the most respected Oline coaches in college football so our oline is going to improve. I know that 2J is the oline coach but with Anae not taking on any position responsibilities and saying that he is assisting 2J with the oline, I am assuming that our Oline is going to be his baby and is going to play better.

hawkwing wrote:

Googledocs won't open for me at work.



But I'm Cougs_Rule. OLine was a big problem. But it wasn't the OL that caused the QBs of the last two years to be so wildly inaccurate, ineffective and inefficient.



It was poor QBs playing poorly and inconsistently.

That's all part of it. It was also poor preparation of the entire offense, poor and inconsistent play calling, and a number of other things.



Each player is responsible for their play on the field. The OC is responsible for the results of the offense, and calling 8 WR bubble screens for a total of 4 yards in a game is poor play calling.

Yeah, that was a horrible game plan. When the db's are lining up in the face of our wide receivers in man to man coverage, I couldn't believe he was continually calling that.

If Heaps had a better Oline in front of him in 2011, we never even get to RN. The Oline play was so poor, that Bronco/Doman chose to go with a QB that was mobile and could evade the constant pressure better. Heas was not his own best friend, but it is hard to get into a rhythm when you have no time to throw because hte line in front of you is so awful. It absolutely correlates. Bad Oline play led to QB issues, and then from there, BYU had a mess.



If you wonder why Heaps backslid from 2010 with Anae to 2011 with Doman, it was because the scheme gave better blocking to Heaps in 2010 than 2011, and it is not even debatable. Go look at the protection Heaps got in 2010, and then check in 2011. Use the 2 Utah games for the reference points. Pretty much the same lines for both teams, and there is a massive difference in protection and scheme.



Why did BYU bring in Tujague, and then also have Anae act as a sort of Co-Oline coach then? Because it is issue #1 to fix with the offense. No QB can be consistent behind a horrible Oline. None. Not Brady, not Manning, not Rodgers, no one.



Bama wins because they dominate with both lines. Not because their QB is so awesome, but amazingly, their QB is awesomely efficient behind a dominant Oline. BSU with Moore was so great because he rarely got touched due to great Oline play. If you want QB efficiency, you need a dominant Oline. It is that simple. Our line play was issue #1.

Right on Lawboy. And now that attribution has been divided up, I would go back to the likelihood that most everyone on this site, except for Bib who would have apparently given Weber an office with a view, would have started the Offensive makeover with a new Oline coach.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Right on Lawboy. And now that attribution has been divided up, I would go back to the likelihood that most everyone on this site, except for Bib who would have apparently given Weber an office with a view, would have started the Offensive makeover with a new Oline coach.

Speak for yourself. Bib would have gotten big-time boosters like you and Lawboy to raise money and go after Grimes.





The Bibster, speaking for himself in 3rd person, thinks the OL has been our biggest problem since at least 2010 and is part of the reason for all of the injuries at QB, RB, FB, TE, and OL. For a while, one could chalk it up to bad luck and an injury depleted OL, but eventually you have to hold the OL coach accountable. Ironically, he survived both rounds of firings and easily got a new job - so apparently Bronco and Doman either had more faith in him than I did or could not get HR to let them pull the trigger. Aftet 2012, apparently someone at USU saw something positive.



I would have made a change. It will be interesting to see how USU fares in 2013.



For me, 2J was not an elite hire - ie like Grimes or Anae as OL coach would have been, byt BYU rarely makes an elite hire unless you count Crowton.



So I am good on seeing how 2J performs.



But do any of the published quotes about how blessed he feels about being at BYU where he can spend more time with family have any of you worried.



BYU has looked under-prepared on several occasions and imho is much too willing to skip an allowed practice during fall camp and Bowl prep.



But we shall see. A quote by an NFL coach about a former BYU OL player right before his first ONFL start, described him as the toughest and nastiest player he had seen in a long while. We need to get back to that perception of our OL.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Right on Lawboy. And now that attribution has been divided up, I would go back to the likelihood that most everyone on this site, except for Bib who would have apparently given Weber an office with a view, would have started the Offensive makeover with a new Oline coach.

Speak for yourself. Bib would have gotten big-time boosters like you and Lawboy to raise money and go after Grimes.





The Bibster, speaking for himself in 3rd person, thinks the OL has been our biggest problem since at least 2010 and is part of the reason for all of the injuries at QB, RB, FB, TE, and OL. For a while, one could chalk it up to bad luck and an injury depleted OL, but eventually you have to hold the OL coach accountable. Ironically, he survived both rounds of firings and easily got a new job - so apparently Bronco and Doman either had more faith in him than I did or could not get HR to let them pull the trigger. Aftet 2012, apparently someone at USU saw something positive.



I would have made a change. It will be interesting to see how USU fares in 2013.



For me, 2J was not an elite hire - ie like Grimes or Anae as OL coach would have been, byt BYU rarely makes an elite hire unless you count Crowton.



So I am good on seeing how 2J performs.



But do any of the published quotes about how blessed he feels about being at BYU where he can spend more time with family have any of you worried.



BYU has looked under-prepared on several occasions and imho is much too willing to skip an allowed practice during fall camp and Bowl prep.



But we shall see. A quote by an NFL coach about a former BYU OL player right before his first ONFL start, described him as the toughest and nastiest player he had seen in a long while. We need to get back to that perception of our OL.



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Having a .600+ winning percentage as a head coach at a lower division college, IMO, is a pretty good hire. He knows how to coach. Having coach Anae and him working with the Oline has me feeling pretty good that our Oline is going to improve a ton. The questions on O for me come from the running backs (we have a 100% rookie at coach with them) and at TE for the same reason. The rest of the staff has Ocoordinator experience or has done a nice job with his position group at other universities.

You may or may not be correct about the Oline and Jake Heaps, but Heaps actually had time to throw most of the time, had receivers open, and somehow managed to throw over their head, too far in front, too far behind; I don't know, for the best QB recruit in the country, I was shocked he could not hit a receiver.



I also recall Detmer scrambling for his life many times, but made plays, hit the receiver and won games. The Oline of late was not the whole problem but a big pat of it. Edwards never got many big time recruits but won anyway. BYU, I think, is getting better recruits now than during the Edwards era which may say more about Edwards greatness as a coach than anything else. If Bronco falls flat in the next two years, he may be moved out, if he (and Anae) are wildly successful, he may retire anyway.

Edwards era BYU from about 1979-1987 drafts had as much or more NFL talent than this team does. It was a crazy good time for top end talent at BYU, especially on D. The overall depth may not have been as good, but the starting talent was outstanding.



Our Oline needs to be a strength again. It really is pretty simple. BYU has not had an Oline player drafted since Scott Young in 2005, then Dustin Rykert in 2003. That is 2 guys in 10 years, and that is pitiful. John Tait in 1999 was the last elite BYU Oline player.



Compare that to what the U has done with similar recruits on their Oline the last decade. 4 Guys drafted, with several other FA guys on rosters.



BYU can and should do better.

golong wrote:
You may or may not be correct about the Oline and Jake Heaps, but Heaps actually had time to throw most of the time, had receivers open, and somehow managed to throw over their head, too far in front, too far behind; I don't know, for the best QB recruit in the country, I was shocked he could not hit a receiver.



I also recall Detmer scrambling for his life many times, but made plays, hit the receiver and won games. The Oline of late was not the whole problem but a big pat of it. Edwards never got many big time recruits but won anyway. BYU, I think, is getting better recruits now than during the Edwards era which may say more about Edwards greatness as a coach than anything else. If Bronco falls flat in the next two years, he may be moved out, if he (and Anae) are wildly successful, he may retire anyway.

LaVel put more Olinemen in the NFL, by far. French was not a nice man, but he got tremendous results, including producing an Outland trophy winner and a Heisman winner, protected by, among others, 2J.



2J >>> Weber.

2J + Anae >>> Grimes >>> Weber + Anae.



2J will have more time with his kids bc he is not an HC or OC. Prediction : 2J will be labeled an Elite hire at some point in the future.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

2J will have more time with his kids bc he is not an HC or OC. Prediction : 2J will be labeled an Elite hire at some point in the future.

Ha ha. cougs_rule, your predictions are amusing. And I hope you're right. The o-line has been soft and underperforming for YEARS.

Heaps didn't have any time to throw, unless going against lower division teams. Same as Riley.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Heaps didn't have any time to throw, unless going against lower division teams. Same as Riley.

And he certainly didn't make the most of the "time to throw" opportunities.