Coach Rose Apologetics

gregwrubell "Because standards are so high, anything but previous levels may disappoint, but BYU's system is a good one, and produces results." #roseknows



Not starting this thread as a condemnation of Rose. I think he's got his work cut out getting this team in order for the next couple of years. I wholeheartedly agree with GW. The system has produced great results since he took over. I just wonder where this sort of statement was during the football season in defense of Mendenhall. GW made it clear that he felt Bronco was in over his head. But Rose, he's just dealing with "high standards". :roll: Again, I believe this entire statement could be used for the football team and Bronco. Both are excellent coaches and I'm glad we have them both.

I agree, on all counts.

True. Just goes to show that BYU is still a football school. Basketball success is icing on the cake, Football success is mandatory.

Different sports, different circumstances. Lots of reasons they're different, but Probably the biggest difference has to do with the fact that if Coach Rose finds a way to pull off three wins next week in LV he still gets to go to the NCAA tournament and the season would be considered a success. Football as a nonBCS school is much less forgiving.

The fact that they're completely different sports is all that really needs to be said. I don't get the attempts at comparing the programs or coaches.

First, I am glad we have both coaches. It's a great time at BYU, though clearly it could be better.

Second, very different contexts. Little to NO margin of error for football given fewer games, etc.

Third, there is a real and palpable difference the way the two coaches endear themselves to the fans. Rosé does not draw the ire of fans through his indifference and criticisms. Bronco has and does. I'm guessing that Rose also benefited somewhat through his cancer experience. Draws more empathy. Rosé does not probably like some of the antics of fans, but rather than poor gas on the fire, he just goes with it and let's it go.

Bronco in calling out and belittling fan frustration and antics as a means of irradiating it, has done The opposite. It's called collusion--"drawing out from the other party the thing that you like least about them."

Fourth, Rose hasn't set himself up for big criticism. He hasnt talked about National Championships, Bronco has. Rosé hasn't limited or diminished his program by avoiding such talk, he just hasn't set himself up. Bronco did. Rosé hasn't come out and LIED/covered up about Davies limitations/failures. Bronco did with Riley.

In short, Rosé is winning the public relations part of his job. Bronco has not.



And in fact, I don't hear anyone apologizing for Rose. Rose fans are actually remaining quiet--just like Rose, accepting, not apologizing for a season that is barely meeting expectations and actually not meeting them with a few losses (SD and SF) that BYU wasn't supposed to lose.

Alternatively, I hear an enormous amount of apologizing and defending Bronco by Bronco fans, because he needs it. Everyone senses his thin skin, and like myself, hopes he can overcome this weakness and not leave because he could not deal with it.

Bronco has become an easy target, which is too bad; and a result of how he has Treated fans and press. Rosé has stayed above the fray.

I guessing because this is essentially Rose's first real down year.



Bronco has had two in the last three, and to a large extent three of the last three have been disappointing.

Probably a very big part. This is where an average or "off" season intersects with the diff between Bball and Fball. 20-8 looks and feels a lot better than 6-5. A bunch of pre-season patsies helps establish winning ways/perceptions and establishes a lot of team confidence which carries over to fans and to the regular season.

But yes, .500 records don't bode well for either program.

Notwithstanding,Rose will still fair better than Bronco. He is managing his PR better.

Honestly, Rose may have as many problems with the fans as Bronco. But hardly anyone listens to Rose interviews, and there are far fewer of them in the first place.

Sounds like we need a poll. I really doubt that Rose has ticked off as many fans, even proportionally. There may be fewer bball fans and avid bball fans, but to play that card sounds more like Bronco apologetics than for Rose.

hawkwing wrote:
Honestly, Rose may have as many problems with the fans as Bronco. But hardly anyone listens to Rose interviews, and there are far fewer of them in the first place.

I think the main problem that Bronco has had, that Rose hasn't, is it seems like, especially early in Bronco's tenure as HC, that he had an active disdain for fans.



It seems to have tempered some, and Rose hasn't had that issue. He has catered to the fans much better. I don't think Bronco would have nearly as many people frustrated with him if he would have played the PR game better.

1 down year people. Bronco has had 3 in a row. There is a difference and it's not just the expectations.

mizzoucoug wrote:
1 down year people. Bronco has had 3 in a row. There is a difference and it's not just the expectations.

The biggest difference is the sport they each coach. Football >>>>>>>>>> Baskeetball.

One thing that hasn't really been touched here...



The short answer: Riley Nelson Lovefest.



THe long(er) answer:



Dave Rose had to basically eat 20% of his scholarships because two of his players weren't well enough to play and had to retire (I think he should have pulled them - instead of waiting for them to retire - but that is a subject for another thread), giving what would have been contributing STARTER minutes to people that have only play in garbage time, (again, because it was late in the game that he offered).



Bronco not only keeps "those" players on scholarship, but starts them, and allows them to be put in situations that they have ZERO chance succeeding (Rnelson, JSorenson).





In conclusion and comparison: Rose was given a difficult situation with nagging injuries and further compounded it with indecision (in my opinion). Bronco was given an easy situation (don't play players that don't practice during the week, that has always been his policy) and he compounded that with the wrong decision repeatedly with the stubborness of a mule kicking against the pricks.

mizzoucoug wrote:
1 down year people. Bronco has had 3 in a row. There is a difference and it's not just the expectations.

2012: 8-5

2011: 10-3

2010: 7-6



Not one losing record in the bunch, with a 10-win season in the middle. If that's 3 down seasons in a row, you need to take a strong dose of perspective.



1970: 3-8 (Hudspeth)

1971: 5-6 (Hudspeth)

1972: 7-4 (Edwards)

1973: 5-6 (Edwards) (my freshman year at the Y)

1974: 7-4-1 (Edwards)



All of this was against much worse competition than the Cougars face now. The excitement in 1974 was unbelievable as the Cougars actually went to a bowl game (they lost, but they were invited!)



Yes, it really is perspective/expectations.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
One thing that hasn't really been touched here...



The short answer: Riley Nelson Lovefest.



THe long(er) answer:



Dave Rose had to basically eat 20% of his scholarships because two of his players weren't well enough to play and had to retire (I think he should have pulled them - instead of waiting for them to retire - but that is a subject for another thread), giving what would have been contributing STARTER minutes to people that have only play in garbage time, (again, because it was late in the game that he offered).



Bronco not only keeps "those" players on scholarship, but starts them, and allows them to be put in situations that they have ZERO chance succeeding (Rnelson, JSorenson).





In conclusion and comparison: Rose was given a difficult situation with nagging injuries and further compounded it with indecision (in my opinion). Bronco was given an easy situation (don't play players that don't practice during the week, that has always been his policy) and he compounded that with the wrong decision repeatedly with the stubborness of a mule kicking against the pricks.

THIS. although, Blue, I touched on Riley, just didn't harp on like I usually do.



Rosé would struggle with the public if he were to say things like "Cusick is the heart and soul of this team; he is our tough and gritty Sr and shows real leadership. He struggles to produce actual results, but he is our starter--period. Fans are uneducated and don't know things like I know them."

He doesn't say it but he shows it.

My momma always says, "stupid is is stupid (says)."

She also said,



"If you can't say anything nice, don't say nuttin at all." (wait, that was Thumpers mom)



"An angry man may think it, but it is a foolish man who says it."



Need I go on.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
My momma always says, "stupid is is stupid (says)."

She also said,



"If you can't say anything nice, don't say nuttin at all." (wait, that was Thumpers mom)



"An angry man may think it, but it is a foolish man who says it."



Need I go on.

I believe it applies quite well. You've had a lot to say about Bronco recently.

I love both Bronco and Rose. I'm glad they are both at BYU. However, I'm more frustrated with basketball than football.



I'm just surprised Rose hasn't been able to win a conference tournament title or defeat a higher seed in the NCAA tournament. Considering the level of play has been very good under his watch, I can't believe he hasn't been able to take BYU that higher level when it matters most. For a program that is in the top 15 of all time college basketball wins we should be able to do better than 1 Sweet 16 in 30+ years.