My dilema

My neice (wife's sister's daughter) is visiting from Colorado this weekend. She'll be staying with her mom (my wife's sister). It's her first time she's been home in about two years.



We're having a family dinner on Saturday. Here's where the dilema comes in. My sister-in-law and her daughter want to have a sleepover with my boys after the dinner.



My wife and I just celebrated our anniversary last weekend and my sister-in-law and her husband stayed with our kids while we went away for the night. So I don't have a problem with my sister-in-law and watching my kids and them staying the night.



My neice lives in Colorado with her girlfriend to live their alternative lifestyle. My wife has told me she spoke to her sister and my boys will be in sleeping bags on the floor in her sister's room.



But I'm still worried about my boys. Am I over-worrying? I do not know if my neice's girlfriend is coming out as well. Should I speak to my sister-in-law as well? Should I speak to my neice about my concerns?

My experience is that you are never "over worrying." A lot depends on how old your boys are, and how close geographically you are to the house that the sleep over is proposed to be at. My inclination would be no sleep over, and have the boys there and interacting all day, and take them home at night, and bring them back in time for breakfast the next morning, explaining that they simply do better sleeping in their own bed (at least that's how my boys are) and you are not rellly being anti-social

What are your concerns, Spiff?

I would play it safe and follow your feelings/gut/spirit.

This sounds like one of those delicate, land mine laden family situations. Since it's your wire's sister, I would consult heavily with your wife and even defer to her on the final decision. Of course, you have your input and the final decision - whatever it is - should be mutually supported. If any phone calls need to be made, let your sister do it. I have had situations like this blow up in my family. It can cause lasting hard feelings.



Good luck!!

My concerns is the neice was diagnosed with transgender disorder. Has at least one failed suicide attempt in her past. Is quite antagonistic towards the Church. And, just my personal belief, but that she was abused when she was a pre-teen or early teen - possibly/probably by one of her brother's druggie friends at the time. She's a very troubled soul - or at least she was before she moved to Colorado.



I have spoken to my wife about it. I may reiterate my concerns with her and maybe ask her to reconfirm with her sister the sleeping arrangements.



Ddawg, that's one of my concerns, that I may say something to cause long lasting hard feelings. Which is what I don't want to do, but hard feeling, is a welcome trade for my kids safety.

Spiff-dawg, I understand completely. At the risk of being too personal - my oldest son declared a few years ago he is gay. He is very bright and talented. He is a software designer, works for a major software company, and makes a very good living.



But, when he comes to visit (Christmas, etc.) he has wanted to bring his significant other to stay at the house. The wife and I had to have quite a number of those "honest" discussions with him. He understands, we love him, and he is welcome anytime. But, he cannot bring his significant other and stay in this house. It caused real hard feelings for a number of years. But, it seems to have settled down and all is well.



You are in a tough situation. I get it. You are walking the high wire without a net. Have one of those "behind closed doors" discussions with your wife. Seek understanding and alignment in your decision. I would let the wife be the messenger.



Sincerely - good luck my man. It's a high stakes game with long term ramifications.

Sounds like there are a number of very real concerns, even beyond sexuality. Good luck determining the right line to draw with your children. Remember it is appropriate for you to receive revelation on what you should do in behalf of your family.

The best rule of thumb is go by the Spirit. It is that nagging feeling you have in the back of your mind sometimes. If something is telling you don't do it, then don't. Excuses are easy to come up with--such as someone else mentioned--they sleep better at home.



While family is an exception when we are traveling, I have already told my kids we will not be doing sleepovers--ever. Having been on sleepovers, nothing good ever came of them. I realize it is different with family--or it should be--but there are family members that I would not allow my children to stay with. You are the protector of your children and help set the proper standards. No one else looks after your children quite like you do.



My wife and I used to think that our uneasiness around certain people was snobbiness, so we would feel guilty. But eccentric people always seemed to like us because we try to be kind to everyone. So, we realized that our uneasiness couldn't be snobbiness, since we genuinely try to be nice to others. We would often find out that our uneasiness had a reason. For example, my Father in law and Mother in Law brought a teen with them to visit us sometime. The teen offered to babysit the kids on more than one occasion, and we always felt like we shouldn't and even warned our kids not to be alone with him. We were constantly checking his whereabouts in the house in relation to our other kids. It was very nerve racking few days. Later we learned that he was addicted to pornography and who knows what else. My wife and I now operate from the default position that since we are usually nice to others, even if they are weird, if I feel uneasy around a person, it is the spirit of discernment warning me about that person. I believe my wife and I both have that gift. If I am wrong about it, then I will be the first to repent. But I would rather try to be nice to others and avoid those that I feel uneasy around, then subject myself or family to the agency of others with ill intent just because I don't want to be snobby. I believe our hearts are in the right place and we are trying to rely on the spirit of discernment. I guess that is my longwinded way of saying rely on the spirit of discernment.

SpiffCoug wrote:
My concerns is the neice was diagnosed with transgender disorder. Has at least one failed suicide attempt in her past. Is quite antagonistic towards the Church. And, just my personal belief, but that she was abused when she was a pre-teen or early teen - possibly/probably by one of her brother's druggie friends at the time. She's a very troubled soul - or at least she was before she moved to Colorado.



I have spoken to my wife about it. I may reiterate my concerns with her and maybe ask her to reconfirm with her sister the sleeping arrangements.



Ddawg, that's one of my concerns, that I may say something to cause long lasting hard feelings. Which is what I don't want to do, but hard feeling, is a welcome trade for my kids safety.

I hope I'm not obnoxiously intruding by weighing in: Follow your feeling but seek to do it with charity. Do not ignore what is weighing on you

Better safe than sorry.

We have a rule: NO SLEEPOVERS

For those with no sleep over rules does that include Grandma and Grandpa's house? I couldn't imagine growing up without being able to go over there.



If it doesn't include them, at what level of family do you draw the line?

Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart, kid, and you'll never go wrong.

hawkwing wrote:
For those with no sleep over rules does that include Grandma and Grandpa's house? I couldn't imagine growing up without being able to go over there.



If it doesn't include them, at what level of family do you draw the line?

I agree. I see problems if the first time someone ever sleeps away from Mom or Dad is when they are on their mission... does "No sleepovers" include Scout Camp? Scout camping activities? I don't see how "no sleepovers" works....

Schmoe wrote:
Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart, kid, and you'll never go wrong.

When I read your quote, I read it in the voce of some lady... Ruth... baby Ruth... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix8s_TUYVW8

Geez Spiff, these are the hardest situations. Family, feelings, sex, and the desire to navigate the social situation as best as possible. The tension here is between trying to maintain a position on something while not being offensive. It seems like the main issue is exposure between your boys, who I'm sure you look after as best you can, with a gay girl. That exposure is happening in a "sleepover" type setting, which carries a specific meaning within the LDS community.



I think I'm a bit more liberal than many others here on CC, but here's my take, for whatever it's worth. (And I'm coming from a place where I was chatting it up with a student, just recently, who was describing how he wanted to develop his drag-dressing hobby some more). To me, there's a lot of actions out there that seem to have a heavy symbol attached to them. Allowing a "sleepover" that has boys and a girl is pretty much generally seen as a symbol of you saying, "Alright unwed boys/future missionaries, time to get prematurely sexually active!" If you disallow the situation, your action is seen as a symbol of making a stand in defending righteousness; however you are likely to cause some familial rifts in so doing. People would likely support you and if you're a strong LDS believer, you would feel like you've been an example and that others might look up to you and follow it. I won't say what I think you should do, but I will say that either of these situations of symbolic meaning is avoidable. Say you have the sleepover, you could have some discussions with your boys beforehand and this could be a very positive learning experience. While I attended Tulane as a freshman, I remember trying my best to get ready for my mission while being constantly surrounded with sex, alcohol, and everything. It doesn't work for everyone, but exposure to the "world" or "alternative lifestyles" or whatever you want to call it and navigating those situations successfully as opposed to just avoiding them altogether and thereby promote boundaries and exclusivity--it's people who can balance the tension of maintaining a position effectively while also successfully navigating various social situations with dissimilar lifestyles which really brings out success for all parties.



So, don't overworry, maybe have a talk with the boys and discuss how this is one opportunity to be an example in a questionable situation. (They'll be in questionable situations later in life anyway, better now so you can talk with them). I don't know, maybe just tell them "not in my house" and just avoid the whole mess.

hawkwing wrote:
For those with no sleep over rules does that include Grandma and Grandpa's house? I couldn't imagine growing up without being able to go over there.



If it doesn't include them, at what level of family do you draw the line?

We draw the line at family we trust and/or have good feelings about. Typically we stay wherever the kids stay while traveling. Only on a couple of occasions have we left our children under the care of my in-laws alone overnight. We would also feel comfortable leaving our kids with my wife's brothers' families, or her Sister. We would feel comfortable leaving them with one of my brothers, but that is about it. I have too many siblings with a drug history or that are smokers to leave my kids with them. Fortunately, those siblings never ask to have the kids over, so it isn't that big of a deal. We would have an excuse if they did.



I guess the answer is you draw the line where you feel prompted to draw the line. Many people are sexually abused by family members. You can't know who in your family might be one of those abusers with any certainty, so you just have to rely on the promptings of the spirit. Though not a sexual abuse issue, my parents once left me and one of my brothers with my sister, who was heavily involved with drugs at the time. I know my dad left money for food, but I went hungry for a lot of that week. I wonder what happened to the money?

ABYUFAN wrote:

For those with no sleep over rules does that include Grandma and Grandpa's house? I couldn't imagine growing up without being able to go over there.



If it doesn't include them, at what level of family do you draw the line?

I agree. I see problems if the first time someone ever sleeps away from Mom or Dad is when they are on their mission... does "No sleepovers" include Scout Camp? Scout camping activities? I don't see how "no sleepovers" works....

It works fine. I know my kids are always safe and sound at home. I plan on going to Scout Camp with my boys. They can sleep in their own tents, etc. However, if I were not available, I would still let them go, as long as I felt OK about their leaders. It is sort of like choosing baby sitters. Just being LDS doesn't cut it for me. I have hired non-lds babysitters that had a good spirit about them. I would have to have the same feeling about the scout leaders to let my kids go without me. Knowing what I know about the prevalence of pornography addiction and sexual abuse, I know I have to be more careful today than perhaps our parents had to be with us. And as I recall, getting along with people was far more important as a missionary than the few times I had stayed the night somewhere.



I fail to recall anything good ever happening at a sleepover, but I remember plenty of bad.