BSA's proposed gay policy change

Could this have come at a worse time than during "Friends of Scouting" month?



And if the change does happen, will Scouting change it's leaders mantra of "3/4 of 'scouting' is 'outing'" because of fear that this would be one of the WORST ways to be "outed"?

Well I am awaiting direction from the leadership regarding donating to BSA. I don't know if I will or not. I have two boys in the program.

I went into a vegan restaurant and made a big scene because they wouldn't serve me a steak. I went into Planet Fitness and got mad when they wouldn't let me deadlift and grunt. I went to McDonald's and screamed in the manager's face because I was too tall to play on the playplace. Guess what? None of them changed their policy because I acted like a spoiled child. Weird.

After the Church recently released this website:



http://www.mormonsandgays.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I'm not sure where the Church will fall on this.

Schmoe wrote:
I went into a vegan restaurant and made a big scene because they wouldn't serve me a steak. I went into Planet Fitness and got mad when they wouldn't let me deadlift and grunt. I went to McDonald's and screamed in the manager's face because I was too tall to play on the playplace. Guess what? None of them changed their policy because I acted like a spoiled child. Weird.

If I knew how to save put this in an email I'd send it to family and friends. I don't hate these guys, I mean gals, I mean ??? but I don't like their bullying. They seem to be getting their way at every turn including turning one great organization into something I don't think it was meant to be.

Mars wrote:


I had always thought that the day this happened, the Church would drop their support of Boy Scouts completely and start up their own organization...

Could it be called the "Danites?" :bug:

This is troubling as is the trajectory of the BSA. It's a shame, being an Eagle Scout has helped me get jobs, promotions, etc. At what point is the distorted new image of scouting no longer a badge of honor?

craigoscarson wrote:
This is troubling as is the trajectory of the BSA. It's a shame, being an Eagle Scout has helped me get jobs, promotions, etc. At what point is the distorted new image of scouting no longer a badge of honor?

All who are watching what is happening to the BSA have a front row seat to a real world pressure cooker and critical decision making. We'll see if the BSA stands by their principles, or bows to $$$$. What's really going on here is corporate America is threatening to withdraw financial support from the BSA unless they yield to the pressure of activists to lift the ban on gay leaders and members. It will be enlightening to see if they have the character to stay the course, or yield to corporate dollars. As we know, money usually wins the day. We shall see.

I have been receiving letters from our Council leaders essentially saying that chartering organizations will not have to allow gays to lead their troops if it is against that chartering organization's religious beliefs. I don't know if that is enough of an exception for the Church or not. I am interested to see what happens.



Duty to God is the program in many countries that do not have scouting. It would not be a huge change to make that the focus instead of scouting. I would add some missionary prep, vocational training, auto-mechanics, career research, survival skills, etc. to round out a good program.



Frankly, the older youth have not really been into scouting for years now, so it would almost be a welcome relief to many of them. Outside of Utah, I haven't seen very many well run Venture Crews or Varsity Scout programs in the church anyway. Now might be the best time to come up with something better for the 14-18 year olds.

Today the radio claimed they'll wait until may to make the announcement. I assume that they're getting flack over this. I was unable to contact ups for confirmation, but my friend tells me they are one of the companies to threaten withdrawal of funds if the BSA wouldn't accept gays. I have asked those who ship to me to not use ups at least until I confirm this. Boycotts can go both ways. I don't hate gays but I think companies should stay out of these things and just do their business.

nuk13 wrote:
Today the radio claimed they'll wait until may to make the announcement. I assume that they're getting flack over this. I was unable to contact ups for confirmation, but my friend tells me they are one of the companies to threaten withdrawal of funds if the BSA wouldn't accept gays. I have asked those who ship to me to not use ups at least until I confirm this. Boycotts can go both ways. I don't hate gays but I think companies should stay out of these things and just do their business.

Bravo! 2 parties can play these ridiculous games.



I don't know how a gay scouting leader can recite



"On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight."



With a straight face. (no pun intended)

BroncoBot wrote:

Today the radio claimed they'll wait until may to make the announcement. I assume that they're getting flack over this. I was unable to contact ups for confirmation, but my friend tells me they are one of the companies to threaten withdrawal of funds if the BSA wouldn't accept gays. I have asked those who ship to me to not use ups at least until I confirm this. Boycotts can go both ways. I don't hate gays but I think companies should stay out of these things and just do their business.

Bravo! 2 parties can play these ridiculous games.



I don't know how a gay scouting leader can recite



"On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight."



With a straight face. (no pun intended)

I hesitate to ask, because i fear to kick up a firestorm, but if a gay person can go to the temple, and it happens, why do you believe that a gay person could not recite and adhere to the scout oath? I am not suggesting that BSA should do or not do something, but seriously just because someone is gay does NOT mean they are unable to do the things in the scout oath.

BoiseBYU wrote:

nuk13 wrote:
Today the radio claimed they'll wait until may to make the announcement. I assume that they're getting flack over this. I was unable to contact ups for confirmation, but my friend tells me they are one of the companies to threaten withdrawal of funds if the BSA wouldn't accept gays. I have asked those who ship to me to not use ups at least until I confirm this. Boycotts can go both ways. I don't hate gays but I think companies should stay out of these things and just do their business.

Bravo! 2 parties can play these ridiculous games.



I don't know how a gay scouting leader can recite



"On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight."



With a straight face. (no pun intended)

I hesitate to ask, because i fear to kick up a firestorm, but if a gay person can go to the temple, and it happens, why do you believe that a gay person could not recite and adhere to the scout oath? I am not suggesting that BSA should do or not do something, but seriously just because someone is gay does NOT mean they are unable to do the things in the scout oath.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think he's referring to the gay people who advocate the gay lifestyle. Those weho teach that because they are "bornthat way" it's OK to act on the impulses that they are born with. I would not have my teenage boys in a troop with someone advoicating that the gay lifestyle was in anyway not a sin

BoiseBYU wrote:

nuk13 wrote:
Today the radio claimed they'll wait until may to make the announcement. I assume that they're getting flack over this. I was unable to contact ups for confirmation, but my friend tells me they are one of the companies to threaten withdrawal of funds if the BSA wouldn't accept gays. I have asked those who ship to me to not use ups at least until I confirm this. Boycotts can go both ways. I don't hate gays but I think companies should stay out of these things and just do their business.

Bravo! 2 parties can play these ridiculous games.



I don't know how a gay scouting leader can recite



"On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight."



With a straight face. (no pun intended)

I hesitate to ask, because i fear to kick up a firestorm, but if a gay person can go to the temple, and it happens, why do you believe that a gay person could not recite and adhere to the scout oath? I am not suggesting that BSA should do or not do something, but seriously just because someone is gay does NOT mean they are unable to do the things in the scout oath.

I was unaware that someone who was actively participating in a homosexual lifestyle could attend the temple.

I know that my regular Friends of Scouting donation this year turned into a pledge. And on the pledge card, I'll clearly state that if, after May, they decide that UPS and AT&T's dollars are more important than mine, they'll not need mine, and my Firends of Scouting days will be over. I know that BSA pays a ton of money to staffers, and I'm OK with that and still donate gladly to Friends of Scouting, and will continue to do so as long as BSA stands for something more than money. But once it decideds that money is more important, I'll send my money (and boys) elsewhere

Schmoe wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

Today the radio claimed they'll wait until may to make the announcement. I assume that they're getting flack over this. I was unable to contact ups for confirmation, but my friend tells me they are one of the companies to threaten withdrawal of funds if the BSA wouldn't accept gays. I have asked those who ship to me to not use ups at least until I confirm this. Boycotts can go both ways. I don't hate gays but I think companies should stay out of these things and just do their business.

Bravo! 2 parties can play these ridiculous games.



I don't know how a gay scouting leader can recite



"On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight."



With a straight face. (no pun intended)

I hesitate to ask, because i fear to kick up a firestorm, but if a gay person can go to the temple, and it happens, why do you believe that a gay person could not recite and adhere to the scout oath? I am not suggesting that BSA should do or not do something, but seriously just because someone is gay does NOT mean they are unable to do the things in the scout oath.

I was unaware that someone who was actively participating in a homosexual lifestyle could attend the temple.

In my book, being gay and living in a homosexual lifestyle are two very different things and a distinction at least I understand the Church teaches its leaders to understand. Being gay is no more a sin if you will than being heterosexual is. What is crucial is your adherence to the commandments. I at least know faithful members of the church who are gay. It hurts them when statements like that above are expressed--that just being gay means for example you can't live or abide by the scout oath. Perhaps Broncobot was referring more specificaly to the persons mentioned by ABYUFAN or the type of gay person you are referring to and if so, then I do not have disagreement, but I wish we would try harder at making that distinction and keeping it in mind.

By "gay", I did mean practicing homosexuality when reciting the scout oath. I do feel that homosexuals have a hard lot, and many of them have chosen to simply ignore those tendencies and live a Christ centered life. To those persons, I wholeheartedly support. AT THE SAME TIME, I don't want homosexual males going on campouts with my boys anymore than I want a heterosexual male going on campouts with my girls.



Also, I feel that those persons pushing for these types of changes are-

1. not really interested in scouting, but in "equality" and

2. practicing.



I know that if I was not married, I would never want to be going on frequent campouts with 16-18 year old vulnerable girls for a few reasons. First of all, who knows what could happen. Secondly who knows what false charges could be brought against me at some point. Same situation here. It puts both homosexual leaders and the boys in a vulnerable position. Didn't we learn these types of lessons with Sandusky?

Mars wrote:


I guess I imagined that the Duty to God award would grow into the DTG Scouting Organization.

When the BSA had their day at the Supreme Court and before the verdict was announced (you'll remember it was in BSA's favor) my Dad mentioned something interesting. He said that because there was no way the church would support BSA with gay leaders, that they needed an alternative youth program.



DTG was that program.



He noticed specific steps the church was taking at the time to build up the program as a BSA replacement. Things have clearly changed since then so who knows what they'll do.