OC Question

Does it seem strange to anyone else that Doman gets demoted/fired after a season that Bronco gives RN an unlimited leash to RN he makes countless mistakes and then fires Doman. Seems like the offense was handicapped when Bronco kept giving the ball to RN. I know there are people that are way closer to the program/smarter than me. Just wondering if that seemed strange to anyone else.

Be advised. This site does not permit such out of the box thinking or theorizing without being castigated as "hateful" and heretical. You are a Bronco hater, aren't you.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Be advised. This site does not permit such out of the box thinking or theorizing without being castigated as "hateful" and heretical. You are a Bronco hater, aren't you.

Yikes, I am not a Bronco Hater.

Sorry man. My post was dripping with sarcasm aimed at the colossally myopic that frequent this site and disparage and discredit theories like yours. Don't worry, I'm With you all the way, my friend.

ByuIcoug wrote:
Does it seem strange to anyone else that Doman gets demoted/fired after a season that Bronco gives RN an unlimited leash to RN he makes countless mistakes and then fires Doman. Seems like the offense was handicapped when Bronco kept giving the ball to RN. I know there are people that are way closer to the program/smarter than me. Just wondering if that seemed strange to anyone else.

Or perhaps it wasn't Bronco that gave RN the unlimited leash to make countless mistakes? Perhaps this is Bronco's way of getting rid of BOTH of them?



And no, it didn't/doesn't seem strange to see an OC released who couldn't generate a consistent offense, who couldn't put his players in positions to succeed, who couldn't correct the mistakes and deficiencies of his players.



And no, I don't think you're a Bronco hater nor do I castigate those who think outside the box. And I certainly don't think you are a heretic.



And I certainly don't think I am colossally myopic nor do I think your theory needs to be disparaged. I just don't agree with it.



I think the simplest answer is the correct one. Bronco realized the offense has stunk for two straight seasons and is making sure BOTH common denominators are gone.

Ok maybe I overstated some things just a bit. Thanks Spiff. :-)

Can't help but agree with Spiff here. Not sure why so many fans have this view that Doman had no say over his offense while he was here.



Robert Anae had near complete control over the offense when he was here before.

Jamie Hill had complete control over the defense while he was DC.



I just don't believe that Bronco treated Doman so differently from every other coach he has on staff.

ByuIcoug wrote:
Does it seem strange to anyone else that Doman gets demoted/fired after a season that Bronco gives RN an unlimited leash to RN he makes countless mistakes and then fires Doman. Seems like the offense was handicapped when Bronco kept giving the ball to RN. I know there are people that are way closer to the program/smarter than me. Just wondering if that seemed strange to anyone else.

You made a huge assumption about how QB decisions were made and then stated them as fact. You, Cougs Rule and I really do not kbow crap about who made whim do what the last three years.



Bronco knows.



I am on the fence about Doman as OC and I think Anae was treated unfairly by fans in 2010 when they assumed he tied Doman's hands until Doman supposedly took over playcalling when playcalling improved. All of those myths have reversed now.



But Doman did not do much with Heaps in 2011 or Nelson, Hill, or Lark in 2012.



OL was poor. Other than Hoff and Falslev, receivers were mediocre. Tight ends mediocre. No FB. There were lots of problems on offense exacsrbated by horrible field goal kicking and partially offset by great punting and great defense.



Anae is a proven OC. Rock Solid. He will get hammered by fans again because no magic show is going to satisfy fans that would not accept 10-3 or 11-2 vs mediocre schedules because he will be facing much tougher schedules and delivering accordingly.



BYU is a solid program that will be competitive in most games. No more. No less. And we are about to sign a recruiting class with ZERO five or four star recruits. Nothing has really changed.



2012 was a fun and interesting season. 2013 should be as well.



But, QB, FB, TE, and OL issues and depth issues at WR and RB and a rebuilding defense and losing a great punter and gavibg a huge ? At kicker - facing toughest overall schedule ever



Buckle up, be realistic, and enjoy the ride.



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I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I live in Colorado, so I get all my Cougars news from CC. I don't get to listen to the talk radio/newspapers and what they write about the Cougars. But, from the outside it seemed to me that Bronco always was going with RN. I always thought the head coach would make the choice on the qb even though we know he is not super involved with the offense. Pretty much my point if Bronco said play RN and then fired Doman that seems like a raw deal I know that is a big If. I also agree there were other problems on the offense not just RN, but if you turn the ball over its tough to win we all know that. Just some thoughts again didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I am excited for next year with Hill and Williams that could be a great combo.

Byucoug, it doesn't matter whether you are trying to ruffle feathers or not. Folks won't accept stuff whether you are being nice like you or rough like me. A few folks just do not want to accept a very inconvenient truth, that Doman, sensing he was getting thrown under the bus had to protect whatever shred of legacy was going to be left after the Riley show ended and said IN THE MEDIA WHEN ASKED IF RILEY WILL START--"I don't know. You will have to ask Bronco, that's why he makes the big bucks."

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Byucoug, it doesn't matter whether you are trying to ruffle feathers or not. Folks won't accept stuff whether you are being nice like you or rough like me. A few folks just do not want to accept a very inconvenient truth, that Doman, sensing he was getting thrown under the bus had to protect whatever shred of legacy was going to be left after the Riley show ended and said IN THE MEDIA WHEN ASKED IF RILEY WILL START--"I don't know. You will have to ask Bronco, that's why he makes the big bucks."

Which - if you are objective and not a Riley hater or pot stirrer or Bronco hater or just someone thT likes to treat assumptions convenient to their own right wrong game as fact



That quote could mean, "I want to start Riley but Bronco may overrule - so ask him" as easily as meaninh what you assume he meant.



Truth is neither you or I know what he meant. But carry on with your charactet assainations of these people anonymously and then let us know next time you chit chat and shake hands with one of them as though you are a fan or a friend.



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Truth be told I'm more of a Bib hater (though not an actual one, more of an adversary) than a Riley hater or a Bronco hater. But if we had to line up quotes in the media, which is THE ONLY evidence anyone has, the preponderance of data (as was discussed in several threads after the BSU and NMSU game, would suggest that Bronco was very much more involved than less involved with the decision of starting Riley.

So, unless you have some inside sources then you lose the data battle. But then again, that should be obvious if you have to rely on argumentum ad hominem. Assassinations? Really? Quit being such a drama grandpa.

BYUIcoug, don't let the sudden and vehement responses of some here scare you off. I agree that if Bronco forced Doman to play Riley and then fired him for it it would be unfair. I don't believe that is the case though, it goes against everything Bronco has ever done before. It would also change things if we had see. The offense improve under the 2 other QBs Doman started this year, but it didn't, so it's easy to see why the coaching staff may have thought Riley was our best chance to win.



Thanks for visiting the site!

hawkwing wrote:
BYUIcoug, don't let the sudden and vehement responses of some here scare you off. I agree that if Bronco forced Doman to play Riley and then fired him for it it would be unfair. I don't believe that is the case though, it goes against everything Bronco has ever done before. It would also change things if we had see. The offense improve under the 2 other QBs Doman started this year, but it didn't, so it's easy to see why the coaching staff may have thought Riley was our best chance to win.



Thanks for visiting the site!

Then again, the rule of playing a player who has not practiced all week, used to go against everything Bronco has ever done before. But maybe Riley begged, batted his eye-lids, flashed his golden abs of Brown; maybe Doman, who knowing Riley was "VERY INJURED" insisted and maybe even Tree came to Riley's cause (also precedent for that) saying, But Coach, remember [the Alamo in] the spring game" and therefore Bronco gave into these irresistible forces and they are all to blame. Or maybe Bronco reasserted his one-tome held belief that he knows "little about the offense" and totally delegated if not abdicated this MOST IMPORTANT Decision that a team faces of which QB to play and said,"No Brandon, its your offense, your job, your butt on the line, you decide."

But regardless, Riley played after not practicing all week and it was a game time switch after preparing an entire offense and Lark--that is a well established fact.

So, we just need more than "I believe in Bronco" and "I want to bear my Bronco-mony" to build a case for whether or not Bronco insisted on Riley then hung Doman out to dry. If BYU beats Either Utah or BSU or both, (because freshman just can't possibly step up, Heaps didn't and Manziel is just an anomaly) my bet is Doman is not sent packing. But, there were just too many winnable losses this year to justify giving Doman one more year.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Truth be told I'm more of a Bib hater (though not an actual one, more of an adversary) than a Riley hater or a Bronco hater. But if we had to line up quotes in the media, which is THE ONLY evidence anyone has, the preponderance of data (as was discussed in several threads after the BSU and NMSU game, would suggest that Bronco was very much more involved than less involved with the decision of starting Riley.

So, unless you have some inside sources then you lose the data battle. But then again, that should be obvious if you have to rely on argumentum ad hominem. Assassinations? Really? Quit being such a drama grandpa.

Deseret News had an article saying Bronco gave complete control of the offense to Anae and then Doman. Today's paper. But they probably do not know either. In the absence of facts I suppose you can make some up - or just wait until and if we ever get any facts.



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Cougs_Rule wrote:
Byucoug, it doesn't matter whether you are trying to ruffle feathers or not. Folks won't accept stuff whether you are being nice like you or rough like me. A few folks just do not want to accept a very inconvenient truth, that Doman, sensing he was getting thrown under the bus had to protect whatever shred of legacy was going to be left after the Riley show ended and said IN THE MEDIA WHEN ASKED IF RILEY WILL START--"I don't know. You will have to ask Bronco, that's why he makes the big bucks."

The only inconvient truth is that we don't what the truth is.

Except we know that Doman said Bronco decided which qb would play. Indisputable. So, if you want to continue to claim we don't know anything you must also accept that either Doman was bold-faced lying or has some odd sort of sick sarcasm or "break from reality" or is mentally insane.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Except we know that Doman said Bronco decided which qb would play. Indisputable. So, if you want to continue to claim we don't know anything you must also accept that either Doman was bold-faced lying or has some odd sort of sick sarcasm or "break from reality" or is mentally insane.

But we don't know if it was the same decision that Doman would have made himself and Doman was/is simply trying to shift "blame."



Bronco: Hey Doman, can Riley go?

Doman: I'm not sure, I'd like him to go, I think he's healthy enough to play, even though is very injured. I think he gives us the best chance to win.

Bronco: Ok, let's go with Riley.



Media: Will Riley start?

Doman: You'll have to ask Bronco, that's why he makes the big bucks. (unsaid: the HC will consult with me and hasn't gone against my advice yet, so while the final call isn't mine, it is highly unlikely it won't be different than mine.)

Conversely, isn't Anae's return a resounding endorsement of Bronco? The guy has to be doing something right for a guy to leave for greener pastures, find out they aren't that green (duh, it's Arizona) and then come back? You don't do that if you don't believe in the HC.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Then again, the rule of playing a player who has not practiced all week, used to go against everything Bronco has ever done before. But maybe Riley begged, batted his eye-lids, flashed his golden abs of Brown; maybe Doman, who knowing Riley was "VERY INJURED" insisted and maybe even Tree came to Riley's cause (also precedent for that) saying, But Coach, remember [the Alamo in] the spring game" and therefore Bronco gave into these irresistible forces and they are all to blame. Or maybe Bronco reasserted his one-tome held belief that he knows "little about the offense" and totally delegated if not abdicated this MOST IMPORTANT Decision that a team faces of which QB to play and said,"No Brandon, its your offense, your job, your butt on the line, you decide."

But regardless, Riley played after not practicing all week and it was a game time switch after preparing an entire offense and Lark--that is a well established fact.

So, we just need more than "I believe in Bronco" and "I want to bear my Bronco-mony" to build a case for whether or not Bronco insisted on Riley then hung Doman out to dry. If BYU beats Either Utah or BSU or both, (because freshman just can't possibly step up, Heaps didn't and Manziel is just an anomaly) my bet is Doman is not sent packing. But, there were just too many winnable losses this year to justify giving Doman one more year.

Do we know Riley didn't practice all week? That he didn't take one snap? I don't know the rule completely. Would taking just one snap in practice fulfill the rule - at least in letter if not in spirit?



Do we know how Lark or Hill practiced that week? Is it possible that after watching both of them practice all week, the coaches - despite the rule in place - decided that they had to violate their rule, because there was no way they felt either was prepared to face Utah?



The inconvenient truth is we simply don't know anything. ANY theory is as valid as another.



Except the ones Cougs_Rule puts forth - in which case, those are just flat out wrong. ;)