MWC article

http://blog.cougarfan.com/2013/01/byu-should-return-to-mwcheres-how-and.html?m=1



I hate that this article makes sense.



I'd like to be in a conference with better access to the big game bowls. But I hate the mwc.



BYU would have gone BCS bowling with both Beck and Hall in the new system from the MWC.



I wish I could wave a magic wand and get the Big12 to invite BYU.



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I would literally be shocked beyond imagination to EVER see BYU go back to a conference at the level of the MWC. If they gave us a similar deal that ND has with the ACC, then I'm interested in listening, but otherwise, I don't see it happening.



For non-business reasons, I'd never want to see anything happen in regards to the MWC while Hair Thompson is around, unless I see a printed apology for what he did to submarine us and the disrespect heaped on us in the aftermath of our moving out of the conference. I don't see that ever happening.

Fourteen teams would be better. You really don't need UTEP--ever, and only one of SMU/Houston. I'd go with SMU since it has the better media market. Then the geography works out better between the Eastern and Western Divisions. The rivalry game would then be SMU-Hawaii (June Jones rivalry) as a cross divisional rivalry game.



Eastern

BYU-Utah State

Wyoming-New Mexico

Colorado State-Air Force

SMU (Hawaii from Western)



Western

Boise State-UNR

UNLV-San Diego State

San Jose State-Fresno State

Hawaii (SMU from Eastern)



14 is less mouths to feed and still ensures the demise of the Big East. It would be better to play six and two from the other league based on the previous years standings or current standings--leave the dates open. Top team in both divisions play the bottom teams from the opposite division and so on--to preserve the likelihood of the two best teams meeting up in the championship game based on the in-conference record. These inter-division games could be played on the second to last and third to last weekend, with rivalry week being the last week prior to the championship game.



All that being said, what the article fails to realize is that there is no automatic berth into the four team playoff, only into the consolation prize BCS games. However, with the Big East gone, this would easily be one of the best six conference (SEC, Big 12, Pac 12, Big 10, and ACC) and maybe better than the ACC. It would likely garner support for an automatic berth among the highest ranked remaining conferences when the playoffs expand to eight teams (the Big five, highest ranked conference champ of remaining conferences, and two at large teams).



But, I still prefer independence until someone can explain how BYU can make more money and/or get more exposure--not get what it already has by joining the proposed conference. You don't make big moves to stay in the same position. You make big moves to improve your standing.

Cougarfan87 wrote:
Fourteen teams would be better. You really don't need UTEP--ever, and only one of SMU/Houston. I'd go with SMU since it has the better media market. Then the geography works out better between the Eastern and Western Divisions. The rivalry game would then be SMU-Hawaii (June Jones rivalry) as a cross divisional rivalry game.



Eastern

BYU-Utah State

Wyoming-New Mexico

Colorado State-Air Force

SMU (Hawaii from Western)



Western

Boise State-UNR

UNLV-San Diego State

San Jose State-Fresno State

Hawaii (SMU from Eastern)

I'd prefer independence with a loose scheduling alliance with the conference, but if something like this were to happen, I like the idea of 14 teams, but I'd scratch Hawaii and UTEP and keep both SMU and Houston.



East

BYU-Utah State

CSU-Wyoming

SMU-Houston

Air Force



West

BSU-Fresno State

UNLV-Nevada

San Jose State-SDSU

New Mexico



New Mexico is free to schedule NMSU it last game of the year and Air Force can schedule anyone it wants (perhaps another service academy, since Army-Navy is mid-December these days). If SMU can schedule TCU for its last game of the year, then the matchup is Houston-Air Force.

Like I've said before, a 5 or 6 game scheduling alliance and a full member share of MWC moneys, plus, sole control and share of our own TV deal and I'd "join" or align with the MWC.

I couldn't finish reading the article. The gag reflex kicked in and I almost barfed. It would be difficult going back on so many levels. However, one of the hardest pills to swallow would be seeing my Puke friends and having to listen to them say, "Oh, not good enough to work your way into a major conference, eh? Go ahead and join Little Sisters of the Poor. Good to see you drop those games with Texas and Nebraska, etc. so you could play Wyoming again. I guess water does, after all, seek its own level."



Nah. I don't want none of that. Big 12 or stay independent. those are the only two options I can ever see.

1967cougar wrote:
I couldn't finish reading the article. The gag reflex kicked in and I almost barfed. It would be difficult going back on so many levels. However, one of the hardest pills to swallow would be seeing my Puke friends and having to listen to them say, "Oh, not good enough to work your way into a major conference, eh? Go ahead and join Little Sisters of the Poor. Good to see you drop those games with Texas and Nebraska, etc. so you could play Wyoming again. I guess water does, after all, seek its own level."



Nah. I don't want none of that. Big 12 or stay independent. those are the only two options I can ever see.

Couldn't even stand to START reading it.



BYU needs to MWC if and only if BYU is given complete control over the destiny of the conference. I'm talking about BYU's vote counting as 66% of any decision. Hair Thompson is gone. BYU chooses it's TV rights and can retain its ESPN deal if they feel that is in their best interest for as long as they want a partnership with ESPN.



Instantly the conference would be appealing enough to perhaps join again.

Cougy_Monster wrote:
http://blog.cougarfan.com/2013/01/byu-should-return-to-mwcheres-how-and.html?m=1



I hate that this article makes sense.



I'd like to be in a conference with better access to the big game bowls. But I hate the mwc.



BYU would have gone BCS bowling with both Beck and Hall in the new system from the MWC.



I wish I could wave a magic wand and get the Big12 to invite BYU.



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Problem is there is no Big 12, Big 10, or PAC Wand. Any of those face-saving moves would deal with Ute Envy and Frog Envy and really kill any BSU Envy - at least for the moment.



But BYU fans need to learn to not drive themselves nuts by comparing realistically possible alternatives like Independence, BEAST, MWC, or C-USA to unrealistic ones like Big 12, Big 10, or PAC or worse yet - PERFECT WORLD fantasies.

BroncoBot wrote:

I couldn't finish reading the article. The gag reflex kicked in and I almost barfed. It would be difficult going back on so many levels. However, one of the hardest pills to swallow would be seeing my Puke friends and having to listen to them say, "Oh, not good enough to work your way into a major conference, eh? Go ahead and join Little Sisters of the Poor. Good to see you drop those games with Texas and Nebraska, etc. so you could play Wyoming again. I guess water does, after all, seek its own level."



Nah. I don't want none of that. Big 12 or stay independent. those are the only two options I can ever see.

Couldn't even stand to START reading it.



BYU needs to MWC if and only if BYU is given complete control over the destiny of the conference. I'm talking about BYU's vote counting as 66% of any decision. Hair Thompson is gone. BYU chooses it's TV rights and can retain its ESPN deal if they feel that is in their best interest for as long as they want a partnership with ESPN.



Instantly the conference would be appealing enough to perhaps join again.

Yeah - let's make some unreasonable demands and then get one more conference hating and not wanting us. The MWC did not screw BYU. BYU made its move - MWC made its survival counter move - and BYU partnered with WCC. That all worked out OK for all parties. Don't let hate cloud your judgment.

BYU should not jump at anything, but should respectfully evaluate opportunities to partner or join MWC. Partnering in a way that preserves Indy but solves scheduling and bowl access issues would be my first choice.



MWC does seem well positioned to become the stepping stone conference that BEAST once was.

The flaw in the thinking that the best team from the strongest Group of Five conference will usually get the bid was illustrated this year with Northern Illinois. There were at least six teams from the MWC and WAC that were better than N. Illinois: Boise State, SDSU, and Fresno State from the MWC and Utah State, LA Tech, and SJSU from the WAC. The Big East has Louisville, Rutgers, and Cincinnati (and probably even Syracuse) that are better than N. Illinois. But N. Illinois still got the bid. The MWC trio beat up on each other and Utah State, although beating LA Tech and SJSU, lost to a Rose Bowl team and us.



The new Access bowl rules don't say the best Group of Five champ; the rules say the highest ranked champ. There is a difference. The polls are stupid. The computers rank 8-5 BYU ahead of everyone of these teams except Utah State.



Nothing is guaranteed if BYU rejoins the MWC. In fact, it probably makes it MORE LIKELY that the MWC champ doesn't get the Access bowl bid. If BYU and Boise State not only have to duke it out for the MWC championship with each other but also with Houston, SDSU, SJSU, Utah State, Fresno, and Air Force, it will be unlikely that the MWC frequently finishes with an undefeated record, even in conference. This allows an 11-1 team from the MAC, Sun Belt, or C-USA or Big East leftovers to finish in the polls ahead of the MWC champ, even if the MWC champ is significantly better and would win a head-to-head matchup.



Just say no!

Cougarbib wrote:

1967cougar wrote:
I couldn't finish reading the article. The gag reflex kicked in and I almost barfed. It would be difficult going back on so many levels. However, one of the hardest pills to swallow would be seeing my Puke friends and having to listen to them say, "Oh, not good enough to work your way into a major conference, eh? Go ahead and join Little Sisters of the Poor. Good to see you drop those games with Texas and Nebraska, etc. so you could play Wyoming again. I guess water does, after all, seek its own level."



Nah. I don't want none of that. Big 12 or stay independent. those are the only two options I can ever see.

Couldn't even stand to START reading it.



BYU needs to MWC if and only if BYU is given complete control over the destiny of the conference. I'm talking about BYU's vote counting as 66% of any decision. Hair Thompson is gone. BYU chooses it's TV rights and can retain its ESPN deal if they feel that is in their best interest for as long as they want a partnership with ESPN.



Instantly the conference would be appealing enough to perhaps join again.

Yeah - let's make some unreasonable demands and then get one more conference hating and not wanting us. The MWC did not screw BYU. BYU made its move - MWC made its survival counter move - and BYU partnered with WCC. That all worked out OK for all parties. Don't let hate cloud your judgment.

Hey, after seeing what BSU got, I don't think my demands are "unreasonable". And the MWC certainly can turn them down. (and they were also mostly TIC)

BroncoBot wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

I couldn't finish reading the article. The gag reflex kicked in and I almost barfed. It would be difficult going back on so many levels. However, one of the hardest pills to swallow would be seeing my Puke friends and having to listen to them say, "Oh, not good enough to work your way into a major conference, eh? Go ahead and join Little Sisters of the Poor. Good to see you drop those games with Texas and Nebraska, etc. so you could play Wyoming again. I guess water does, after all, seek its own level."



Nah. I don't want none of that. Big 12 or stay independent. those are the only two options I can ever see.

Couldn't even stand to START reading it.



BYU needs to MWC if and only if BYU is given complete control over the destiny of the conference. I'm talking about BYU's vote counting as 66% of any decision. Hair Thompson is gone. BYU chooses it's TV rights and can retain its ESPN deal if they feel that is in their best interest for as long as they want a partnership with ESPN.



Instantly the conference would be appealing enough to perhaps join again.

Yeah - let's make some unreasonable demands and then get one more conference hating and not wanting us. The MWC did not screw BYU. BYU made its move - MWC made its survival counter move - and BYU partnered with WCC. That all worked out OK for all parties. Don't let hate cloud your judgment.

Hey, after seeing what BSU got, I don't think my demands are "unreasonable". And the MWC certainly can turn them down. (and they were also mostly TIC)

I am pretty sure that BSU did not insist that the Conference Commissioner that now looks like the smartest Commissioner not leading a BCS Big Five Cartel conference be dismissed. That is utterly silly and small-minded.

The MWC was obviously willing to deal with Boise State.



BYU should not join the MWC. However, BYU could get a 6-game agreement with the MWC right now and help to improve the MWC's TV contract. You would obviously incorporate the Boise State, Utah State, and Hawaii series into the 6-game deal, so BYU would just add 3 other MWC each season. Get a guarantee of 3 MWC games in November; the rest in October (or November). Schedule it such that BYU is on the road at MWC venues 3 times per season, and all of the sudden, the MWC has some good inventory for TV deals. Later-season games with BYU-Air Force, BYU-Fresno, BYU-Nevada, BYU-SDSU would improve the MWC's TV payouts.



BYU benefits by getting some decent November games on the schedule.



BYU would also likely help the MWC solidify and maintain its relationships with the Las Vegas, Poinsettia, and Armed Forces Bowls, if those bowls had the opportunity to pick up BYU once or twice every four years, depending on BYU's regular season record.



Another alternative would be to carve out the Boise State-BYU game (although it would be really nice to get this game moved to November!) and get a 4-game deal with the MWC. Have Hawaii and Utah State as regulars and rotate the other two games through the rest of the MWC.



Oh yeah, and make sure to include a No-Laramie clause!

Cougarbib wrote:

I am pretty sure that BSU did not insist that the Conference Commissioner that now looks like the smartest Commissioner not leading a BCS Big Five Cartel conference be dismissed. That is utterly silly and small-minded.

Speaking of utterly sill and small-minded... remember when the MWC demanded that BYU not be allowed to use their own TV resources and allowed BYU to go to independence?

I am very intrigued by this idea. I really wish Utah and TCU could replace two of the weaker schools on the list. 16 teams is probably too much, the two weakest should be dropped. I think football, basketball, media market, and recruiting has to be considered.



School/FB Bowl Games Last 5 Yrs/BB Tourney Appearances Last 5 Yrs/FB+BB/City Size/TV Market/City+TV Ave:



BYU - 5/5/10/UR/UR/NA

San Diego St. - 3/3/6/17/28/22.5

Boise St. - 5/1/6/120/112/116.0

Nevada - 5/0/5/127/108/117.5

Utah St. - 2/3/5/UR/UR/NA

Air Force - 5/0/5/95/91/93.0

Fresno St. - 4/0/4/68/55/61.5

UNLV - 0/4/4/39/42/40.5

Houston - 3/1/4/7/10/8.5

SMU - 4/0/4/5/5/5.0

Hawaii - 2/0/2/63/72/67.5

Colorado St. - 1/1/2/125/UR/NA

Wyoming - 2/0/2/UR/UR/NA

New Mexico - 0/2/2/71/44/57.5

UTEP - 1/1/2/76/98/87.0

San Jose St. - 1/0/1/32/6/19.0



Looking at these numbers, BYU is the only school that is consistently good at both football and basketball. San Diego St. and Utah St. are the only other schools to have both multiple bowls and tourney appearances in the last 5 years. If I were to kick 2, it would be Wyoming for sure and then either Colorado St. or San Jose St. Hawaii has to stay because of recruiting.

Cougarbib wrote:

1967cougar wrote:
I couldn't finish reading the article. The gag reflex kicked in and I almost barfed. It would be difficult going back on so many levels. However, one of the hardest pills to swallow would be seeing my Puke friends and having to listen to them say, "Oh, not good enough to work your way into a major conference, eh? Go ahead and join Little Sisters of the Poor. Good to see you drop those games with Texas and Nebraska, etc. so you could play Wyoming again. I guess water does, after all, seek its own level."



Nah. I don't want none of that. Big 12 or stay independent. those are the only two options I can ever see.

Couldn't even stand to START reading it.



BYU needs to MWC if and only if BYU is given complete control over the destiny of the conference. I'm talking about BYU's vote counting as 66% of any decision. Hair Thompson is gone. BYU chooses it's TV rights and can retain its ESPN deal if they feel that is in their best interest for as long as they want a partnership with ESPN.



Instantly the conference would be appealing enough to perhaps join again.

Yeah - let's make some unreasonable demands and then get one more conference hating and not wanting us. The MWC did not screw BYU. BYU made its move - MWC made its survival counter move - and BYU partnered with WCC. That all worked out OK for all parties. Don't let hate cloud your judgment.

So hate had nothing to do with the MWC grabbing Nevada and Fresno and making us hunt for an alternative conference for our other sports? We were all screaming foul play at them when this first happened.

Cougarbib wrote:
BYU should not jump at anything, but should respectfully evaluate opportunities to partner or join MWC. Partnering in a way that preserves Indy but solves scheduling and bowl access issues would be my first choice.



MWC does seem well positioned to become the stepping stone conference that BEAST once was.

This comment, Bib, seems spot on to me. MWC is positioning itself to be the new stepping stone. But the stone is covered with deep layers of crap that won't wash off. We've taken all the crap for a lot of years. Now it's time to not use their "stones" but to forge ahead on an alternative path that will lead us to the same destination.

YNot wrote:
The MWC was obviously willing to deal with Boise State.



BYU should not join the MWC. However, BYU could get a 6-game agreement with the MWC right now and help to improve the MWC's TV contract. You would obviously incorporate the Boise State, Utah State, and Hawaii series into the 6-game deal, so BYU would just add 3 other MWC each season. Get a guarantee of 3 MWC games in November; the rest in October (or November). Schedule it such that BYU is on the road at MWC venues 3 times per season, and all of the sudden, the MWC has some good inventory for TV deals. Later-season games with BYU-Air Force, BYU-Fresno, BYU-Nevada, BYU-SDSU would improve the MWC's TV payouts.



BYU benefits by getting some decent November games on the schedule.



BYU would also likely help the MWC solidify and maintain its relationships with the Las Vegas, Poinsettia, and Armed Forces Bowls, if those bowls had the opportunity to pick up BYU once or twice every four years, depending on BYU's regular season record.



Another alternative would be to carve out the Boise State-BYU game (although it would be really nice to get this game moved to November!) and get a 4-game deal with the MWC. Have Hawaii and Utah State as regulars and rotate the other two games through the rest of the MWC.



Oh yeah, and make sure to include a No-Laramie clause!

You would not need to rotate anything. MWC agreed to bonus it's teams for major network appearances. BYU should cut a deal to cherry pick MWC opponents such that all of those games are likely to hit ESPN or ESPN2. Or just schedule them direct with those teams - maybe get some 2fers and guarantee big bucks.



BYU Vs



BSU

SDSU

USU

AFA

Rotate 2 annually (UH, UNLV, SJSU, FSU, SMU or Houston)



Those would be my cherry picks



Never Wyoming, CSU, NM, or UTEP unless 2fers.

1967cougar wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

I couldn't finish reading the article. The gag reflex kicked in and I almost barfed. It would be difficult going back on so many levels. However, one of the hardest pills to swallow would be seeing my Puke friends and having to listen to them say, "Oh, not good enough to work your way into a major conference, eh? Go ahead and join Little Sisters of the Poor. Good to see you drop those games with Texas and Nebraska, etc. so you could play Wyoming again. I guess water does, after all, seek its own level."



Nah. I don't want none of that. Big 12 or stay independent. those are the only two options I can ever see.

Couldn't even stand to START reading it.



BYU needs to MWC if and only if BYU is given complete control over the destiny of the conference. I'm talking about BYU's vote counting as 66% of any decision. Hair Thompson is gone. BYU chooses it's TV rights and can retain its ESPN deal if they feel that is in their best interest for as long as they want a partnership with ESPN.



Instantly the conference would be appealing enough to perhaps join again.

Yeah - let's make some unreasonable demands and then get one more conference hating and not wanting us. The MWC did not screw BYU. BYU made its move - MWC made its survival counter move - and BYU partnered with WCC. That all worked out OK for all parties. Don't let hate cloud your judgment.

So hate had nothing to do with the MWC grabbing Nevada and Fresno and making us hunt for an alternative conference for our other sports? We were all screaming foul play at them when this first happened.

It had a lot more to do with survival. The WAC was going to use its BYU deal and MWC loss of U, and BYU and possibly TCU to lure BSU back into the WAC along with some MWC defections. It was clear that MWC or WAC would die and for a while everyone thought Benson was going to pull it off. We should have sent thank you cards. WCC worked out way better than WAC for us. I am not saying MWC does not have its share of BYU haters. Which conference does not? But this was about survival.



BYU makes a deal to go Indy with other sports in the WAC and MWC is evil for trying to SURVIVE?