Archived Topic

If Taysom Hill is the real deal

by craigoscarson · 12/31/2012

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craigoscarson
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/roster/_/id/252/sort/experience" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



We played

5 teams of the best 20 teams in the country.

Utah State (less than 7 points from being undefeated on the season)

SJSU is a top 20 team

Notre Dame has put together an incredible run (though I don't think they're a top 5 team and will be crushed by Bama)

Oregon State is top 20 but on their best day I think SJSU and Utah State beat them

Boise State also less than 7 points from being undefeated



7 of our opponents went to bowls, 4 of our opponents have won their bowl games, only Oregon State lost (and of course we beat SDSU) , and Notre Dame has a chance to win the national championship.



You could also make an argument that

SDSU put together a top 30 season

and

Georgia Tech certainly has top 20 talent but young and inconsistent (they're going to be scary good next season)



Ultimately, have we ever played so many good teams in a season? And I doubt we've ever led a team going to the national championship as late as the 4th quarter.









random thoughts:

Wth Ga Tech destroying USC, I think we learned that we ended up with an incredibly touch schedule this year and we simply fell a bit short from a sensational season (our qb and oline failed us from having one of the greatest teams in BYU history)



With Cody and KVN coming back , assuming we have a healthy spring and fall camp; I think we're a solid oline from having a Notre Dame like season.



my new years recruiting wishlist: I don't know how we couldn't get 1 elite juco punter, 1 elite juco dlineman and 1 elite juco corner to buy in, assuming they're still out there (at this point we might have to steal from other teams committed recruits).



I think we're getting upgrades at most positions



some upgrades simply by experience



Sorenson will be better

Bills is better than sampson

Johnson will be better

(I don't think we're going to replace Hadley successfully, Trammel has to be great)

Spencer Hadley will be great next year

KVN will be better and NFL ready (should win the Butkus)

Uani Unga is faster than Ogletree, but Tree is a winner

Manoa Pikula will effectively replace Kaveinga

Eathyn should go back to DT

Kaufusi can be just as effective as Ansah (Ziggy hasn't yet come near his ceiling though)

Peck can effectively replace Eathyn at the other DE





Remember this is assuming that Hill is the real deal and makes an effective recovery



Williams is going to grow and get stronger this summer, he's going to be scary; adrian peterson like

Cody will be as good if not better

Apo can't be worse... he's gotta get better

Falslev will improve (he kind of got lost in the last few weeks)

Iona Pritchard is going to finally make us forget Tonga

Mahina and Friel are going to be improved



Oline??????????? I'm clueless at this point, except that we have Ryker, Tushaus, and Reynolds that can start and should be improved from last year



We have a lot of beef on the oline but I really don't know who it's going to be



Then there are a lot of potential contributors that have in game experience

Hine

Lasike

Fua

Raymond

Holt

Wilson

Cutler

Houk

Ridley

Thompson

Beck

Bills

Jorgenson



and

Ragin III, Kalolo Manumaleuna Utu, Maataua Brown, and JonRyheem Peoples (assuming he go to the dline) could contribute immediately



Obviously Trenton Trammel has to pan out and must play for this team to be great



but in the end it comes down to the Oline, the success of Hill and obviously we can't make the same bone headed coaching decisions that cost us against Utah, Notre Dame, SJSU, and Boise State. We really were any 1 of these 3 from likely being a 1-2 loss team (1. qb 2. better oline play 3. better kicker) and we're not losing much from this team. I also don't think our schedule next season is really much harder than the one we played this year.





Our special teams should be solid but we're going to miss Riley Stephenson... course really good teams dont' need world class punters
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frdbtr
I would agree with your analysis. The quesion I have and am patiently waiting for updates on, is are we going to shake up our entire Offensive staff? Are we going to replace them with experienced replacements or more guys who are going to be learning on the job?
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scott715
Any chance we move a TE to the OL?
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Cougs_Rule
I almost totally agree with this thread, though it is very similar to the 2013 schedule thread.

Kaufusi will be Elite. Look what he did with only a few weeks post mission. Bronco will have this D ready!

But offense is a big ????? THill might be the real deal, almost a Jonny football type, IF he can fully recover and if we can have some semblance of a passing coach/attack/commitment by Bronco, and if somebody can teach him not to be like Riley. Would like to Get beyond grit. But, Oline will remain the biggest question mark. Would be great to get a Grimes-like fireball and technique guy.
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BerliNY
Keeping KVN and Hoffman is huge. Next year could be awesome. Here's hoping.



Just watched the replay of the Hawaii game last night and Hill looks very very good to me. Next year will remain a huge question mark until kickoff though due to a number of factors like how THill does in Spring/Fall practice, how D's prep for THill with the limited video they have from this year, and what changes we make wrt play calling and OC in general. Having Williams and Hoffman will take a lot of pressure of the QB position but we'll still need a serious upgrade at OL to have a chance at a cinderella type season IMO.
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craigoscarson
Cougs_Rule wrote:
I almost totally agree with this thread, though it is very similar to the 2013 schedule thread.

Kaufusi will be Elite. Look what he did with only a few weeks post mission. Bronco will have this D ready!

But offense is a big ????? THill might be the real deal, almost a Jonny football type, IF he can fully recover and if we can have some semblance of a passing coach/attack/commitment by Bronco, and if somebody can teach him not to be like Riley. Would like to Get beyond grit. But, Oline will remain the biggest question mark. Would be great to get a Grimes-like fireball and technique guy.




If you look at the NFL mock drafts you'll notice something very telling about Manziel.... he had some world class offensive linemen. On the bright side, A+M doesn't have our defense, but Hill is not going to have the same luxury. We need to have an offensive identity and it needs to start with a nasty oline. I think Mathews will be improved and solid, but between Yeck, Stringham and the others, we need to find a couple guys to step up and dominate. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Cougs_Rule
I totally agree and have stated as much all year. Key word= NASTY! Where is Jason Scukanek? Go pluck him from wherever and bring him back. Kidding mostly. But find somebody who will stop playing footsies with that unit or touchie feelies or whatever is going on.
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Cougarbib
This defense loses more than you think. Others will step up. We will have a decent D. We will not have the best D ever.



You glossed right over our kicking issues. A field goal - clank - even with a crowd induced retry cost us the Utah game. Going for two due to having a kicker that was missing EPs clearly was a factor Vs BSU. A FG or two would have beaten ND.



Our offense has a ton of holes. We did not lose much, though.



We lacked depth this year. Cody was injured in about week 1 or 2 iirc. Luckily he bounced right back. What if he had not?



I agree that it could work out ad a rosy as the picture you paint. Just not very likely.



Expect depth at QB, kicker, OL, FB, and RB to show up as an issue. Still not sure we have a FB, 2nd WR, or tight end. JUCO fixes usually work better in year 2.



2012 was the toughest overall schedule BYU ever played and we were competitive.



2013 will be tougher. Not that we will play any teams that are better than the best teams we played this year. We just play more decent to very good teams and less cake. And our Pineapple Upside Down Cake is a road game.



Every game will probably be winnable. But you win some and you lose some.



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BerliNY
Cougarbib wrote:
This defense loses more than you think. Others will step up. We will have a decent D. We will not have the best D ever.



You glossed right over our kicking issues. A field goal - clank - even with a crowd induced retry cost us the Utah game. Going for two due to having a kicker that was missing EPs clearly was a factor Vs BSU. A FG or two would have beaten ND.



Our offense has a ton of holes. We did not lose much, though.



We lacked depth this year. Cody was injured in about week 1 or 2 iirc. Luckily he bounced right back. What if he had not?



I agree that it could work out ad a rosy as the picture you paint. Just not very likely.



Expect depth at QB, kicker, OL, FB, and RB to show up as an issue. Still not sure we have a FB, 2nd WR, or tight end. JUCO fixes usually work better in year 2.



2012 was the toughest overall schedule BYU ever played and we were competitive.



2013 will be tougher. Not that we will play any teams that are better than the best teams we played this year. We just play more decent to very good teams and less cake. And our Pineapple Upside Down Cake is a road game.



Every game will probably be winnable. But you win some and you lose some.



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Good point about the kicking game. I'm still amazed that a school with 20,000 soccer players on campus can ever have kicking issues of any kind. Go down the IPF during the open soccer tryouts or the elite intramural soccer games, pick the 10 guys that look like they have the best legs, have an informal tryout, narrow it down to 2 or 3, invite them all to walk on, and see who comes with and two months later you've got a serviceable place kicker, done.
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Cougs_Rule
I'm beginning to bite on this whole schedule comparison. I would love to see numbers/projections of TH +/- comparison of point spread whether a home game or away.

Is a BSU game at Boise more difficult than a Texas game at home (given that Texas is not great lately and we have some payback)?

2013 away schedule is easier next year than this year, or at least close to equal.

Home schedule is tougher, but isn't that where you want the tough games as opposed to the road?
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SpiffCoug
I think Hill has shown good accuracy. 63% in his two starts. That's a good number to begin a career.

Other QBs accuracy after two starts:

Young: .500

Walsh: .556

Sarkisian: .575

Peterson: .485

Pendleton: .508

Nelson: .528

Miller: .576

Lindsley: .675

Lark: .620

Heaps: .519

Hall: .615

Feterik: .600

Engemann: .462

Doman: .538

Detmer: .379

Covey: .611

Bosco: .616

Berry: .571

Beck: .513
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Cougarbib
Tough to tell much from this



See Lindsley and Detmer for extreme example where you would draw the wrong conclusion.



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Gucci33
Cougarbib wrote:
This defense loses more than you think. Others will step up. We will have a decent D. We will not have the best D ever.



You glossed right over our kicking issues. A field goal - clank - even with a crowd induced retry cost us the Utah game. Going for two due to having a kicker that was missing EPs clearly was a factor Vs BSU. A FG or two would have beaten ND.



Our offense has a ton of holes. We did not lose much, though.



We lacked depth this year. Cody was injured in about week 1 or 2 iirc. Luckily he bounced right back. What if he had not?



I agree that it could work out ad a rosy as the picture you paint. Just not very likely.



Expect depth at QB, kicker, OL, FB, and RB to show up as an issue. Still not sure we have a FB, 2nd WR, or tight end. JUCO fixes usually work better in year 2.



2012 was the toughest overall schedule BYU ever played and we were competitive.



2013 will be tougher. Not that we will play any teams that are better than the best teams we played this year. We just play more decent to very good teams and less cake. And our Pineapple Upside Down Cake is a road game.



Every game will probably be winnable. But you win some and you lose some.



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Why are you posting about BYU football @ 4 am in the morning on New Years Eve?
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Gucci33
Taysom was the real deal till Bronco or Doman got him hurt on the last play of the game! Bronco did take accountability for that play in our booster meeting to some very unhappy boosters.
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SpiffCoug
I don't put Hill's injury entirely on the coaches. A player should be aware of the game situation as well. They too can see that it's first or second down, the opponent is out of time outs and there are less than 80 seconds left in the game. Hill should have realized that there was no need to run another play, even if another play was sent it. Hill should have taken a knee on his own.



But maybe he was/is such a glory hound that he was trying to pad his stats and break a big run? ;)
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craigoscarson
Cougarbib wrote:
This defense loses more than you think. Others will step up. We will have a decent D. We will not have the best D ever.



You glossed right over our kicking issues. A field goal - clank - even with a crowd induced retry cost us the Utah game. Going for two due to having a kicker that was missing EPs clearly was a factor Vs BSU. A FG or two would have beaten ND.



I agree that it could work out ad a rosy as the picture you paint. Just not very likely.



Expect depth at QB, kicker, OL, FB, and RB to show up as an issue. Still not sure we have a FB, 2nd WR, or tight end. JUCO fixes usually work better in year 2.



2012 was the toughest overall schedule BYU ever played and we were competitive.



2013 will be tougher. Not that we will play any teams that are better than the best teams we played this year. We just play more decent to very good teams and less cake. And our Pineapple Upside Down Cake is a road game.



Every game will probably be winnable. But you win some and you lose some.



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Did you read my entire post? I think you glossed over me not glossing over the kicking game.



We really were any 1 of these 3 from likely being a 1-2 loss team (1. qb 2. better oline play 3. better kicker) and we're not losing much from this team. I also don't think our schedule next season is really much harder than the one we played this year.
[/b]



I also think you're wrong on RB depth. I think we'll have more depth next year at RB than we've had in a very long time. Williams, Alisa, Hine, Lasike, Moore gives us a great deal of depth. Williams could very easily add 20 lbs with his frame and his age; that boy will become a workhorse, yet Lasike and Alisa offer us some battering rams whe he comes out. (I think lasike will be drastically improved and from all reports, he has a rare mix of speed, strength, footwork and moves... he just has to gain the trust of the coaching staff). We know Alisa is solid when healthy and Hine at least looks like a stud rb; I'm not sure what the issue is there.



I also think that we are WR rich and that many of our receivers would have started in the pre-collie days. Falslev, Cutler, and Raymond all can contribute from the slot and all are dandy on their feet. Apo has the tools, (for goodness sake he had 9 touchdowns as a freshman), we just haven't had a gunslinging QB in 4 years. Thompson, Houk, Mathews, and Ridley have the talent to start if we didn't have Cody, JD, and Ross. Then there's Michael Davis coming in next year with reported 4.3 40 speed. This thread is titled "if Taysom Hill is the real deal." And if he is, then I think we're an average Oline from a special season.

Most agree that the difficulty of next season vs this season is not monumental, but if Hill is the stud we hope, then that is a monumental improvement for us.



I do not think our defense takes a major step back (however even if we did, that was the best defense in the history of BYU. We'll have more depth at safety than we've ever had (remember wadsworth and reilly were both starters prior to transferring and are the backups). , kaufusi is going to be a probowler someday, Pikula will play in the NFL too and Unga brings speed and a little nastiness to fill the void left by Ogletree. Van Noy returning is going to allow Bronson, Uani, Manoa, Spencer, Fua, and Peck to terrorize the QB because Olines simply cannot cover them all. We also have the 2nd coming of KVN (Ragin III) coming in and he could contribute early, as could Manamaleanu-Utu at linebacker. Bronco has in the past started freshmen dlinemen successfully and we have some young guys that can help with the load coming in.



My greatest concern with the D is replacing Preston Hadley, but Trammel is reportedly a very good tackler too; I just don't know if he's got the IQ of Hadley. However, our pass rush is going to be so good that an average corner should be just fine......



This entire thread though has a caveat.....My rosy picture is predicated on Taysom Hill being Steve Young/Jonny Manziel-like; if he's not we'll be good. If he is, we could be great assuming our Oline is at least average.
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Cougs_Rule
SpiffCoug wrote:
I don't put Hill's injury entirely on the coaches. A player should be aware of the game situation as well. They too can see that it's first or second down, the opponent is out of time outs and there are less than 80 seconds left in the game. Hill should have realized that there was no need to run another play, even if another play was sent it. Hill should have taken a knee on his own.



But maybe he was/is such a glory hound that he was trying to pad his stats and break a big run? ;)


Having learned as much from his predecessor? :whistle:
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Cougs_Rule
craigoscarson wrote:
This defense loses more than you think. Others will step up. We will have a decent D. We will not have the best D ever.



You glossed right over our kicking issues. A field goal - clank - even with a crowd induced retry cost us the Utah game. Going for two due to having a kicker that was missing EPs clearly was a factor Vs BSU. A FG or two would have beaten ND.



I agree that it could work out ad a rosy as the picture you paint. Just not very likely.



Expect depth at QB, kicker, OL, FB, and RB to show up as an issue. Still not sure we have a FB, 2nd WR, or tight end. JUCO fixes usually work better in year 2.



2012 was the toughest overall schedule BYU ever played and we were competitive.



2013 will be tougher. Not that we will play any teams that are better than the best teams we played this year. We just play more decent to very good teams and less cake. And our Pineapple Upside Down Cake is a road game.



Every game will probably be winnable. But you win some and you lose some.



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Did you read my entire post? I think you glossed over me not glossing over the kicking game.



We really were any 1 of these 3 from likely being a 1-2 loss team (1. qb 2. better oline play 3. better kicker) and we're not losing much from this team. I also don't think our schedule next season is really much harder than the one we played this year.
[/b]



I also think you're wrong on RB depth. I think we'll have more depth next year at RB than we've had in a very long time. Williams, Alisa, Hine, Lasike, Moore gives us a great deal of depth. Williams could very easily add 20 lbs with his frame and his age; that boy will become a workhorse, yet Lasike and Alisa offer us some battering rams whe he comes out. (I think lasike will be drastically improved and from all reports, he has a rare mix of speed, strength, footwork and moves... he just has to gain the trust of the coaching staff). We know Alisa is solid when healthy and Hine at least looks like a stud rb; I'm not sure what the issue is there.



I also think that we are WR rich and that many of our receivers would have started in the pre-collie days. Falslev, Cutler, and Raymond all can contribute from the slot and all are dandy on their feet. Apo has the tools, (for goodness sake he had 9 touchdowns as a freshman), we just haven't had a gunslinging QB in 4 years. Thompson, Houk, Mathews, and Ridley haver the talent to start if we didn't have Cody, JD, and Ross. Then there's Michael Davis coming in next year with reported 4.3 40 speed. This thread is titled "if Taysom Hill is the real deal." And if he is, then I think we're an average Oline from a special season.

Most agree that the difficulty of next season vs this season is not monumental, but if Hill is the stud we hope, then that is a monumental improvement for us.



I do not think our defense takes a major step back (however even if we did, that was the best defense in the history of BYU. We'll have more depth at safety than we've ever had (remember wadsworth and reilly were both starters prior to transferring and are the backups). , kaufusi is going to be a probowler someday, Pikula will play in the NFL too and Unga brings speed and a little nastiness to fill the void left by Ogletree. Van Noy returning is going to allow Bronson, Uani, Manoa, Spencer, Fua, and Peck to terrorize the QB because Olines simply cannot cover them all. My greatest concern with the D is replacing Preston Hadley, but Trammel is reportedly a very good tackler too; I just don't know if he's got the IQ of Hadley. However, our pass rush is going to be so good that an average corner should be just fine......



This entire thread though has a caveat.....My rosy picture is predicated on Taysom Hill being Steve Young/Jonny Manziel-like; if he's not we'll be good. If he is, we could be great assuming our Oline is at least average.


Oh, he (Bib) read it. But he has to defend his last four months of "2013 is Going to horrible predictions".
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Cougarbib
Gucci33 wrote:
This defense loses more than you think. Others will step up. We will have a decent D. We will not have the best D ever.



You glossed right over our kicking issues. A field goal - clank - even with a crowd induced retry cost us the Utah game. Going for two due to having a kicker that was missing EPs clearly was a factor Vs BSU. A FG or two would have beaten ND.



Our offense has a ton of holes. We did not lose much, though.



We lacked depth this year. Cody was injured in about week 1 or 2 iirc. Luckily he bounced right back. What if he had not?



I agree that it could work out ad a rosy as the picture you paint. Just not very likely.



Expect depth at QB, kicker, OL, FB, and RB to show up as an issue. Still not sure we have a FB, 2nd WR, or tight end. JUCO fixes usually work better in year 2.



2012 was the toughest overall schedule BYU ever played and we were competitive.



2013 will be tougher. Not that we will play any teams that are better than the best teams we played this year. We just play more decent to very good teams and less cake. And our Pineapple Upside Down Cake is a road game.



Every game will probably be winnable. But you win some and you lose some.



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Why are you posting about BYU football @ 4 am in the morning on New Years Eve?


If you must know - I have been sick since Christmas Day. Bronchitis. Started meds last night - Z-PAC, nasal spray, oral inhaler - my sleeping schedule is in total disarray. Now if you want to know why I am replying at 4:27PM Pacific Time on New Years Day - basically same story.



Now if you want a detailed description of what I am coughing up - size, frequency, color, etc. PM me.



Do you think a warm BubbleBath would help?



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Cougarbib
craigoscarson wrote:
This defense loses more than you think. Others will step up. We will have a decent D. We will not have the best D ever.



You glossed right over our kicking issues. A field goal - clank - even with a crowd induced retry cost us the Utah game. Going for two due to having a kicker that was missing EPs clearly was a factor Vs BSU. A FG or two would have beaten ND.



I agree that it could work out ad a rosy as the picture you paint. Just not very likely.



Expect depth at QB, kicker, OL, FB, and RB to show up as an issue. Still not sure we have a FB, 2nd WR, or tight end. JUCO fixes usually work better in year 2.



2012 was the toughest overall schedule BYU ever played and we were competitive.



2013 will be tougher. Not that we will play any teams that are better than the best teams we played this year. We just play more decent to very good teams and less cake. And our Pineapple Upside Down Cake is a road game.



Every game will probably be winnable. But you win some and you lose some.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Did you read my entire post? I think you glossed over me not glossing over the kicking game.



We really were any 1 of these 3 from likely being a 1-2 loss team (1. qb 2. better oline play 3. better kicker) and we're not losing much from this team. I also don't think our schedule next season is really much harder than the one we played this year.
[/b]



I also think you're wrong on RB depth. I think we'll have more depth next year at RB than we've had in a very long time. Williams, Alisa, Hine, Lasike, Moore gives us a great deal of depth. Williams could very easily add 20 lbs with his frame and his age; that boy will become a workhorse, yet Lasike and Alisa offer us some battering rams whe he comes out. (I think lasike will be drastically improved and from all reports, he has a rare mix of speed, strength, footwork and moves... he just has to gain the trust of the coaching staff). We know Alisa is solid when healthy and Hine at least looks like a stud rb; I'm not sure what the issue is there.



I also think that we are WR rich and that many of our receivers would have started in the pre-collie days. Falslev, Cutler, and Raymond all can contribute from the slot and all are dandy on their feet. Apo has the tools, (for goodness sake he had 9 touchdowns as a freshman), we just haven't had a gunslinging QB in 4 years. Thompson, Houk, Mathews, and Ridley have the talent to start if we didn't have Cody, JD, and Ross. Then there's Michael Davis coming in next year with reported 4.3 40 speed. This thread is titled "if Taysom Hill is the real deal." And if he is, then I think we're an average Oline from a special season.

Most agree that the difficulty of next season vs this season is not monumental, but if Hill is the stud we hope, then that is a monumental improvement for us.



I do not think our defense takes a major step back (however even if we did, that was the best defense in the history of BYU. We'll have more depth at safety than we've ever had (remember wadsworth and reilly were both starters prior to transferring and are the backups). , kaufusi is going to be a probowler someday, Pikula will play in the NFL too and Unga brings speed and a little nastiness to fill the void left by Ogletree. Van Noy returning is going to allow Bronson, Uani, Manoa, Spencer, Fua, and Peck to terrorize the QB because Olines simply cannot cover them all. We also have the 2nd coming of KVN (Ragin III) coming in and he could contribute early, as could Manamaleanu-Utu at linebacker. Bronco has in the past started freshmen dlinemen successfully and we have some young guys that can help with the load coming in.



My greatest concern with the D is replacing Preston Hadley, but Trammel is reportedly a very good tackler too; I just don't know if he's got the IQ of Hadley. However, our pass rush is going to be so good that an average corner should be just fine......



This entire thread though has a caveat.....My rosy picture is predicated on Taysom Hill being Steve Young/Jonny Manziel-like; if he's not we'll be good. If he is, we could be great assuming our Oline is at least average.


Craig



I did read your cheerleading post carefully. I did not say you omitted mentioning the kicker - I said you glossed over it. You mentioned it in about 3 words as you were summarizing.



You glossed over it. Previously when you talked about getting recruits to plug specific holes, you did not mention this particular hole. You glossed over it.



You did not say what will be done to address it. You glossed over it - like it really was not a big deal.



You also are quite blue goggled about how our FB hole will resolve itself.



Ditto TE.



Really optimistic about Apo.



It may all work out. It is the optimistic end of the spectrum of possible outcomes. 4-8 is the pessimistic end of the spectrum.



Ask me about the realistic - most likely - projection when we see what gold mine of JC recruits and sure fire freshmen and RMs show up and who will be coaching them.



My projection for 2012 was spot on. How was yours?



IDK yet re 2013



But I smell the faint odor of



Coaching instability

Learning curve

Reloading on Defense

Rebuilding on Offense

Lack of experienced depth at key positions especially QB again, 2nd WR, TE, FB, RB, and Center.



Speaking of glossing over



Did you talk about punting?



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