Alma 14:11

11: But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.



http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/14?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seemed appropriate for the day.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Seemed appropriate for the day.

Well said. Today college sports to me seems trivial and insignificant. My heart is broken.

Here's what came to me:



And in despair I bowed my head

There is no peace on earth I said

For hate is strong and mocks the song

Of peace on earth good will to men



Ten pealed the bells more loud and deep

God is not dead nor does He sleep

The wrong shall fail, the right prevail

With peace on earth, good will to men.

Though in some ways this scripture is applicable I have never liked Alma 14:11. Perhaps I do not like it for the reasons it is applicable.



I prefer Alma 48:17

17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.



I would rather have a Moroni watching over my children.

You know what, tww? Until we as a people, start trying to raise more Captain Moroni's these things are going to keep happening.



The more we turn to secularism and trust in ourselves and our laws to protect us, they won't stop.



The only way to stop this is by being like Moroni.



Alma 48:11-13. That's what we need.



11 And Moroni was a strong and a mighty man; he was a man of a perfect understanding; yea, a man that did not delight in bloodshed; a man whose soul did joy in the liberty and the freedom of his country, and his brethren from bondage and slavery;



12 Yea, a man whose heart did swell with thanksgiving to his God, for the many privileges and blessings which he bestowed upon his people; a man who did labor exceedingly for the welfare and safety of his people.



13 Yea, and he was a man who was firm in the faith of Christ, and he had sworn with an oath to defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood.

SpiffCoug wrote:
You know what, tww? Until we as a people, start trying to raise more Captain Moroni's these things are going to keep happening.



The more we turn to secularism and trust in ourselves and our laws to protect us, they won't stop.



The only way to stop this is by being like Moroni.



Alma 48:11-13. That's what we need.



11 And Moroni was a strong and a mighty man; he was a man of a perfect understanding; yea, a man that did not delight in bloodshed; a man whose soul did joy in the liberty and the freedom of his country, and his brethren from bondage and slavery;



12 Yea, a man whose heart did swell with thanksgiving to his God, for the many privileges and blessings which he bestowed upon his people; a man who did labor exceedingly for the welfare and safety of his people.



13 Yea, and he was a man who was firm in the faith of Christ, and he had sworn with an oath to defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood.

Amen, Amen and Amen.

tww wrote:
..........

I prefer Alma 48:17

17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.



I would rather have a Moroni watching over my children.

Alma 46: 28 And now it came to pass that when Moroni had said these words he went forth, and also sent forth in all the parts of the land where there were dissensions, and gathered together all the people who were desirous to maintain their liberty, to stand against Amalickiah and those who had dissented, who were called Amalickiahites.



We desperately need to have a much heavier armed populace. Think of how many lives could have been saved in this horrific situation, if many more people were armed. and the others in the past. They could have saved a lot more lives. We have got to stop having weapon free zones or schools. We don't need to put police in every building, we need to empower those who are already there. We need free schools. Not gov schools, that the parents can control the policies, not the gov.



Twill never happen.

I don't see too many similarities between Alma 14:11 and the senseless murder of children today, other than the fact that children were killed.



The people burning women and children in the book of Alma were not mentally deranged. They knew exactly what they were doing, and were attempting to obstruct god's teachings.

sage wrote:

..........

I prefer Alma 48:17

17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.



I would rather have a Moroni watching over my children.

Alma 46: 28 And now it came to pass that when Moroni had said these words he went forth, and also sent forth in all the parts of the land where there were dissensions, and gathered together all the people who were desirous to maintain their liberty, to stand against Amalickiah and those who had dissented, who were called Amalickiahites.



We desperately need to have a much heavier armed populace. Think of how many lives could have been saved in this horrific situation, if many more people were armed. and the others in the past. They could have saved a lot more lives. We have got to stop having weapon free zones or schools. We don't need to put police in every building, we need to empower those who are already there. We need free schools. Not gov schools, that the parents can control the policies, not the gov.



Twill never happen.

Sadly, agree.



As soon as tight gun control is legislated, the USA becomes another Mexico.

Can't remember the last time I was so depressed.



Grieving for the families in CT, and the loss of liberty that our country has experienced in the last 100 years.

I am very moved by the teachers that, through their brave acts, saved some of the kids. I heard of one who reached out of her room and pulled a kid in.



Sadly, the anticonstitutionalists want to take my guns because someone lost control of himself. Taking freedoms from people does not make them safe or even safer! Here we have officers in the schools with access to firearms. I wonder if that kid could have done what he did in a school with an officer like that.



My opinion is that the people throwing kids and others in a burning pit were either deranged or had evil spirits controlling them. Probably both even as this kid in Connecticut probably did.

I've been wondering that the last few months as well. All these shootings, I wonder if these are modern day possessions. If these are the types of spirits the early apostles were casting out.

I am glad Spiff, Boise & TWW posted the scriptures, quotes and thoughts. I read them and like the sentiments.



I've followed the tragedy in Conn. pretty closely - as many have. It is a horrible tragedy.



That said, I don't really think this was about "evil" in the classic sense. I think this was a case of mental health. The info. is just beginning to take shape, but it looks like Lanza had serious emotional problems - and had them for years. I appears that the older he got, the worse his problems became.



We shall see when more information is available.



But - the classic Liberal knee jerk reaction to pass more laws won't stop these kinds of tragedies.



How many laws have been passed to control heroine? Cocaine? Meth? How's that working out? An armed retired police officer at the school would have made all the difference.



Note, a study by criminologist James Foxx at Northeastern University found that mass killings were on the rise from 1960 - 2000. Since 2000, mass killings have decreased. The peak for mass killings was reached in 1929. The odds of being killed in a mass killing is about equal to being struck by lightning.



My heart is heavy with compassion and empathy for the families of Newton, Conn. We must love our families every day. Life is fragile and too short.

tww wrote:
Alma 46: 28 And now it came to pass that when Moroni had said these words he went forth, and also sent forth in all the parts of the land where there were dissensions, and gathered together all the people who were desirous to maintain their liberty, to stand against Amalickiah and those who had dissented, who were called Amalickiahites.



We desperately need to have a much heavier armed populace. Think of how many lives could have been saved in this horrific situation, if many more people were armed. and the others in the past. They could have saved a lot more lives. We have got to stop having weapon free zones or schools. We don't need to put police in every building, we need to empower those who are already there. We need free schools. Not gov schools, that the parents can control the policies, not the gov.



Twill never happen.

The problem I have with many quoting Alma 46 as a call to action/arms is that they get the context completely backwards. Captain Moroni was a military officer acting in his proper stewardship to call the populace to arms to defend the government against dissenters who would supplant the duly elected government. Alma 46 does not justify vigilante justice or rebellion--in fact, it deals with the government putting down rebellion in defense of family, liberty, and faith.



Too often people who quote Alma 46 sound more like Amalakiah than Captain Moroni.



A few weeks ago, Elder Holland shared this scripture with us in a training setting: "And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land." Mosiah 29:27 The pride cycle of the Book of Mormon is not just a cautionary tale for us individually in avoiding pride, it is a template for us to read the tea leaves and evaluate the progression of our own societies. Go back and read President Benson's opus "Beware of Pride", and read it with a mind toward the nation and society rather than the individual. He himself notes that "The scriptures abound with evidences of the severe consequences of the sin of pride to individuals, groups, cities, and nations."



Suddenly the closing warning that "God will have a humble people. Either we can choose to be humble or we can be compelled to be humble." bears a much more somber tone in light of the trajectory of American government and society in the last 30 years.

But I think we can agree, that having more Captain Moroni's - speaking to the quality of his character, not his military role - would be a good thing. We need great men of characten.

SpiffCoug wrote:
But I think we can agree, that having more Captain Moroni's - speaking to the quality of his character, not his military role - would be a good thing. We need great men of characten.

Absolutely.

This man, a man formerly of Ogden, puts everything into perspective.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcNEbszYlM0

ROBBIE PARKER, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM EMILIE PARKER: OK. So my name is Robbie Parker. My family is one of the families that lost a child yesterday in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings here in Connecticut. I've been contacted by so many people and agencies wanting to know how we're doing and I just thought that this might be the best way to share those feelings with everybody. First of all, I would really like to offer our deepest condolences to all of the families who were directly affected by this shooting.



It's an horrific tragedy, and we want everybody to know that our hearts and our prayers go out to them. This includes the family of the shooter. I can't imagine how hard this experience must be for you. And I want you to know that our family and our love and our support goes out to you as well. At this time, our thanks go out to so many people, so many friends and family. And complete strangers who we don't know. For all the love, condolences and is support that you have given to us.



My daughter Emilie would be one of the first ones to be standing and giving her love and support to all those victims. Because that's the type of person that she is. Not because of any parenting that my wife and I could have done. But because those were the gifts that were given to her by her heavenly father. As the deep pain begins to settle into our hearts, we find comfort reflecting on the incredible person that Emilie was, and how many lives she was able to touch in her short time here on earth. Emilie was bright, creative and very loving. Emilie was always willing to try new things, other than food.



She loved to use her talents to touch the lives of everyone she came into contact with. She was an exceptional artist, and she always carried around her markers and pencils so that she never missed an opportunity to draw a picture or make a card for those around her. I can't count the number of times Emilie noticed someone feeling sad or frustrated and would rush to find a piece of paper to draw them a picture or to write them an encouraging note. Emilie's card-making was expressed beautifully this last October when she placed a very special card that she had made into the casket with her grandpa, who also just recently died of a tragic accident.



Emilie was a mentor to her two little sisters in delighting and teaching them how to read, dance and find the simple joys in life. Emilie's laughter was infectious, and all those who had the pleasure to meet her would agree that this world has a better place because she has been in it. As we move on from what happened here, what happened to so many people, let it not turn into something that defines us. But something that inspires us to be better, to be more compassionate, and more humble people. Let us please keep the sentiments of love we feel for our families and the compassion that we feel for others, even complete strangers, and keep them with us at all times.



Not just in times of sorrow and tragedy. And may we do this so that we can better all of our communities and all of our cities and all our states so that we can make everyone everywhere in this country feel safe. Thank you. I would be happy to answer any questions, as long as I see them to be within reason.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



I was leaving to work, and she woke up before I left. And I've actually been teaching her Portuguese. And so our last conversation was in Portuguese. And she told me good morning, and asked how I was doing. And I said that I was doing well. She said that she loved me. And I gave her a kiss and I was out the door.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



The best way that I've been seeing that is I have two really good friends at home who have set up a Facebook page to help raise money for Emilie. And when I've gotten on that and just seen the number of people who have commented and expressed their condolences, it's been quite overwhelming.



UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Can you describe what your daughter looked like for us?



PARKER: There's lots of pictures on the Emilie Parker fund page on Facebook. She was beautiful. She was blonde, always smiling. Bright blue eyes.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



Here at the church last night, there was a special meeting, and I was given an opportunity to be able to speak at that, as well. And in that, I just mentioned that, you know, the person that chose to act in this way was acting with a God-given right that he was given by God to -- with his own free agency. And that free agency is given to all of us to act and choose to do whatever we want. And God can't take that away from us. And I know that that's something that he was given and that's what he chose to do with it.



And I know that God can't take that away. I'm not mad. Because I have my agency to make sure that I use this event to do what I can to do whatever I can. So, I want to make sure that my family and my wife and my daughters are taken care of and that if there's anything that I can do to help anybody at anytime, anywhere, that I would be willing to do that.



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Mr. Parker, you talk about your daughter. Your other daughters, I wonder if you could talk about them.



PARKER: As un-cheesy as I can say that, she was their best friend. They were all born within three years of each other. So by law, they're very close. She was teaching my middle daughter to read. She would help my youngest daughter learn how to make things, show her how to do crafts. They looked up to her. And they looked to her when they needed comfort. Usually that's saved for a mom and dad. But it was really sweet to see the times when one of them would fall or one of them would get their feelings hurt, how they would run to Emilie to get support and hugs and kisses.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know, it's hard for me to talk about, because I was at work at the hospital. And the hospital was in lockdown, so I couldn't get to the school right away.



I love the people at the school. I love Emilie's teacher, and the classmates that we were able to get to know. I love all of them. And my prayers go out to all of those people.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Is there anything you want to share with the other parents?



PARKER: The only thing I can say to other parents is the comfort we can find, that at least we know there's other people that are in the same boat that we are, that there's other people that know how you're feeling. And even though we are going through it differently and our emotions might be different, and we're going to process this whole thing differently, we're in this together and we're forever linked by this event.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Have you spoken to your other children about what happened?



PARKER: Yes, we were able to -- you know, with the events that happened with my father-in-law recently, and this is unfortunately a topic that's been discussed in our family over the last couple months. So with my daughters, we have been able to express to them what happened. Their understanding is a little limited, of course. But they seem to get the fact that they have somebody that they're going to miss very much.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: The what? I'm sorry.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Emilie's teacher. PARKER: You know, with respect to her family, I'm not going to say her name or anything. I met her at parent-teacher conference a couple weeks ago, and was so impressed with the fact that she really seemed to know Emilie as a person, Emilie's likes and dislikes and things she was good at and things that frustrated her. And is the way she talked about Emilie like that, I know without a doubt, she knew all other 16 kids in the classroom the exact same.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know, the word of this gets out in the afternoon, and our family is from out west. Getting them here in a timely manner was kind of difficult. The fact that, you know, airline agencies were bending over backwards and breaking rules, which they never do, was quite amazing. People -- just seeing my family in the airport and realizing that something was wrong, but not knowing exactly what was wrong and giving them hugs and their support, you know -- everything, from people getting out of line in the security line to let them pass and moving seats on the airplane so they could sit together, those kind of things were very greatly appreciated. And anybody that provided those for my family, I just thank you so much.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: She was the type of person that could just light up a room. She always had something kind to say about anybody. And her love and strength she gave us, and the example she showed to us is remarkable. She is an incredible person. And I'm so blessed to be her dad.



I guess that's it.



Yes?



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I don't know. I don't know how to get through something like this. My wife and I don't understand how to process all of this and how to get our lives going. You know, we find strength in our religion and in our faith, and in our family. And I think that everybody that's going through something like this has, hopefully, support with their family, and with what other means they can find. I just hope everybody can get the help they need.



Since nobody knows how to go through this, I think it's really important that people reach out to the services that have been provided to all of us for counseling and somebody to talk to and understanding how to talk to your children and those kind of things. I really hope that all of us utilize those things that have been offered to us.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I had a 3, 4 and 6-year-old.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION) PARKER: It went from something that, you know, I -- I can't imagine this is happening. This has to be some sort of mistake. What was hard, since I was at work, I was having to talk to my wife on the phone. And just trying to know what was the right thing to do. You know, we didn't -- I didn't think it was that big a deal at first. I thought, with the first reports that were coming in, it didn't sound like it was going to be as tragic as it was. And then as we weren't given information, it started to settle in that it was a much tougher experience for everybody. And so that was kind of what it was like for us.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I'm -- I'm proud to say that I'm a physician assistant and I work in the Danbury-Newborn Intensive Care Unit. I'm 30 years old.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: The best thing that I can think of to do to move on is to help other people. When you help other people, you feel better about yourself. And the more people help other people, then the more people are blessed. And when your life feels blessed, you feel like you can take on the world.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You work at the Danbury Hospital?



PARKER: Yes.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You work with newborns?



PARKER: Yes.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I was at work when my wife called me. And then I was able to find a television and start trying to get any information I can.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Were you there when any of the children --



PARKER: I wasn't. I don't work in the emergency room, so I wasn't involved with any of that.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know what's interesting about that, my family just moved to Newtown about eight months ago, when I accepted the job here. So the impression I got from people on the east coast was a lot different from what I experienced when I got here, that's for sure. Everybody that -- everything that everybody was telling me out west was that I was in for a rude awakening. But the people here have been amazing. And I've never met so many people that were willing to help us when we moved here, to get established, to getting to know me and my family. I truly love it here. And I'm glad to be here.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION) PARKER: I keep hearing that. I haven't really had the television on much or anything like that. So I don't quite understand or grasp the grandness of the -- of everybody's support from around the world, other than just the feeling that we get with everybody's prayers.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know, you can never stop being the best parent you can be. You can always be better. You can always be more patient. You can always be more loving and understanding, and willing to accept your children for who they are. I really hope that as I continue to be a dad to my two children that I can just -- if anybody looks back on my life, the number-one thing they can say about me was that I was a great dad and that my children loved me because of the father I was.



Thanks, guys.

snoscythe wrote:

Alma 46: 28 And now it came to pass that when Moroni had said these words he went forth, and also sent forth in all the parts of the land where there were dissensions, and gathered together all the people who were desirous to maintain their liberty, to stand against Amalickiah and those who had dissented, who were called Amalickiahites.



We desperately need to have a much heavier armed populace. Think of how many lives could have been saved in this horrific situation, if many more people were armed. and the others in the past. They could have saved a lot more lives. We have got to stop having weapon free zones or schools. We don't need to put police in every building, we need to empower those who are already there. We need free schools. Not gov schools, that the parents can control the policies, not the gov.



Twill never happen.

The problem I have with many quoting Alma 46 as a call to action/arms is that they get the context completely backwards. Captain Moroni was a military officer acting in his proper stewardship to call the populace to arms to defend the government against dissenters who would supplant the duly elected government. Alma 46 does not justify vigilante justice or rebellion--in fact, it deals with the government putting down rebellion in defense of family, liberty, and faith.



Too often people who quote Alma 46 sound more like Amalakiah than Captain Moroni.



A few weeks ago, Elder Holland shared this scripture with us in a training setting: "And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land." Mosiah 29:27 The pride cycle of the Book of Mormon is not just a cautionary tale for us individually in avoiding pride, it is a template for us to read the tea leaves and evaluate the progression of our own societies. Go back and read President Benson's opus "Beware of Pride", and read it with a mind toward the nation and society rather than the individual. He himself notes that "The scriptures abound with evidences of the severe consequences of the sin of pride to individuals, groups, cities, and nations."



Suddenly the closing warning that "God will have a humble people. Either we can choose to be humble or we can be compelled to be humble." bears a much more somber tone in light of the trajectory of American government and society in the last 30 years.

I presume that taking me out of context was an accident, but regardless, I don't think anyone was suggesting that we should resort to an armed rebellion. Prepared to defend ourselves and our families? Yes.



It appears that our society has come to the point of upholding and defending the Korihors amongst us. The resulting diseases are evident. What we need are men and women of character like that of Moroni and we need them at at all levels, from schools to government.

Asking that our govt. officials have character and integrity is so basic, so fundamental - yet so difficult. Why is it so? We live in a time when govt. officials find it so easy to deceive with double talk, parse meaning, and flat out lie.



Did we ever get to the bottom of Fast & Furious? No. Have we been told the unvarnished truth about Benghazi? No. Not even close. It's a sad and tragic state. We need a govt. that is honest, transparent, and will work to solve real problems while upholding the Constitution.



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