CougarCorner
Sign in
Archived Topic

BCS Bowl vs Playing better opponents

by Cougs_Rule · 12/4/2012

Advertisement
C
Cougs_Rule
I'm really curious, now that we see the "glass ceiling" isn't so thick and impenetrable as previous--now that NIU has made a bowl game with a total joke of a schedule AND ONE LOSS!

Or, do folks still prefer a tougher schedule with better opponents (supposedly coming to Provo) and a 7-5 record (probably 6-6 next year)?



Seems like TH is a little behind the times. This mentality worked if either he thought BYU could actually compete at this level or if the old BCS system was still playing out. Bt now that we see a one loss joke, not just an undefeated Utah or BSU, can get into a bowl game, BYU was late to this "big-boy dance" and will be late going back to a schedule that actually is realistic or even easier at least that's this year.

I think BCS-envy has clouded the judgment of fans and Admin as well. We don't have the recruits for this year and year out. An we don't have the win at all costs to strike at a NC.

And now there is bi-lateral discontent in Provo as a result of this year.
G
Guest
This was discussed quite a bit before last season with the over whelming majority wanting to play a tougher schedule, even if it meant 8 win seasons.



Maybe some people will have changed their mind.
C
Cougs_Rule
Ya, I recall that vaguely. Just didn't know with NIU making it if that would change some folks' minds. Maybe I should specify not as rediculously easy schedule as NIUs. Bt then again, BYU has never had a schedule that easy.
Y
YNot
The system is changing in 2014.



The only way BYU will be able to take advantage of NIU-type access is if we join the Big East, MWC, C-USA, or Sun Belt. Do we really want that?



Otherwise, the road for BYU to the playoff or "Access Bowls" is to play a tough schedule and win.



It's either join the cupcakes and win or play a good, tough independent schedule and win. I would much rather see BYU compete against #1 Notre Dame, #13 Oregon State, and #20 Boise State and lose (with heartbreak) than watch a season full of blow out wins against MWC or MAC schools.



My main concern is BYU's bowl lineup. [Although, as an aside, a Poinsettia Bowl matchup with SDSU would have been fine (and just about right) if BYU finished 9-3 or 8-4. So, 7-5 BYU against 9-3 SDSU actually turned out to be a good bowl matchup for us.]



But, I'd rather see a scenario where BYU's bowling could fluctuate a little more based on record and ranking. Here would be a great scenario:



12-0 or 11-1 and top 10-15 ranking = playoff or Access Bowl

11-1 or 10-2 with top 15-25 ranking = Holiday Bowl versus PAC 12 #3 or Big 12 #4

9-3 or 8-4 (potentially in top 25 or fringe) = Las Vegas Bowl versus PAC 12 #4/5 or MWC #1

7-5 or 6-6 = Kraft Fight the Hunger or Armed Forces Bowl against Big East, MWC, or C-USA #3/4



I'm not sure BYU would be able to swing such a deal with the Holiday Bowl or Sun Bowl or similar. But, I do think BYU could get a deal with the Las Vegas Bowl and one other (Kraft, Poinsettia, or Armed Forces) to allow BYU to land in at least one of three different places depending on how the season goes



- Playoff/Access Bowl if we have a great season

- Las Vegas Bowl against PAC 12 #4/Big East West/MWC Champ if we have 9+ wins

- Kraft/Poinsettia/Armed Forces if we have 6-8 wins
S
Stirfry
I'd much rather see the games we had this year, and our bowl, over NIU's. What's the point of being in a BCS bowl if that's how you get there? Our 2009 Vegas Bowl was a better bowl than many BCS bowls are.
Advertisement
C
Cougs_Rule
And keep in mind voters, you have to accept with that 7-5 and 6-6 record the type of home wrecking experiences that are going on right now and will even Moreso next year.
C
Cougs_Rule
Stirfry wrote:
I'd much rather see the games we had this year, and our bowl, over NIU's. What's the point of being in a BCS bowl if that's how you get there? Our 2009 Vegas Bowl was a better bowl than many BCS bowls are.


The point is, winning is better than losing. We'll see how folks feel after two seasons of discontent. For a 1-8 record against better opponents?? That's what people want? For what? To see how well BYU stacks up against the big boys? Let me read the last chapter for You and save you the pain.

The head coach leaves or gets forced out by big boosters who refuse to support losing.

Now, can we get back to more games we have a chance of winning since all the stats Spiff and Scott can muster show we pretty much suck against better teams across four decades.

I have tried to hate Bib for a lot of reasons, but on this we have had similar opinions for as long as Ive been on this forum. So, if we have to go thru this "period" of time, this insanity of trying the same thing over and over expecting different results, only to create thru the very expectation building that Bronco and Heaps did and all the fans salivating over the prospects only to see heads roll and discontent mount up--forget about it.

Maybe last years Tshirts slogan "Rise Up" was meant to be a Rising up in effort and wins but it led to a rising up of discontented fans that will continue into next year. Maybe next years slogan should be "Stand Down" bc that's what's going to happen with fans who hate losing more than they like winning 1 for 8 against good teams. And from "Stand down" it will lead to "Step Down" which one or more coaches will do this year and more next.
Y
YNot
Cougs_Rule wrote:
The point is, winning is better than losing. We'll see how folks feel after two seasons of discontent. For a 1-8 record against better opponents?? That's what people want? For what? To see how well BYU stacks up against the big boys? Let me read the last chapter for You and save you the pain.

The head coach leaves or gets forced out by big boosters who refuse to support losing.

Now, can we get back to more games we have a chance of winning since all the stats Spiff and Scott can muster show we pretty much suck against better teams across four decades.

I have tried to hate Bib for a lot of reasons, but on this we have had similar opinions for as long as Ive been on this forum. So, if we have to go thru this "period" of time, this insanity of trying the same thing over and over expecting different results, only to create thru the very expectation building that Bronco and Heaps did and all the fans salivating over the prospects only to see heads roll and discontent mount up--forget about it.

Maybe last years Tshirts slogan "Rise Up" was meant to be a Rising up in effort and wins but it led to a rising up of discontented fans that will continue into next year. Maybe next years slogan should be "Stand Down" bc that's what's going to happen with fans who hate losing more than they like winning 1 for 8 against good teams. And from "Stand down" it will lead to "Step Down" which one or more coaches will do this year and more next.


Winning is better than losing. But having your best games against Fresno State, Air Force, and Utah State would be pretty lame.



It's kind of ridiculous how fickle BYU fans are lately. The last two years of independence, everyone has whined about BYU's schedule. Which do we want? Cupackes and wins? Or tough schedules and realistic results? Last I checked, 2012 turned out to be a pretty darn good schedule, despite the critics. It was disappointing, but we competed against 5 teams in the top 25. And we still get to go bowling.



2013 is even better. It's one of the toughest ever. But it's not like we are playing at Alabama every week.



At Virginia - decent road game in ACC country. Very winnable. 70% chance of victory.

Texas - the Longhorns at home! 50% chance of victory, even with home field.

Utah -the rivalry! 40% chance of victory (given recent trends) - may be 50% with home field

At Utah State - budding rivalry. Not sure who returns (Gary Anderson?). 50-65% chance, depending on returning coaches and players

Georgia Tech - good home game against ACC in October. 65% chance.

at Houston - decent road game in Texas. Very winnable. 70% chance.

Boise St. - great home game in could-be rivalry in late October. 60% chance, with home field.

at Wisconsin - one of the great college football stadiums. Tough place to play. 30% chance on the road

MTSU - better team than we give credit. 80% chance of victory with home field.

at Notre Dame - again, classic stadium and campus. Not as tough road trip as you would expect. 45% chance on the road.

at Hawaii - old foe at a tropical location in December. Sign me up. 70% chance.

Open (assume cupcake or FCS at home) - 90% chance of victory.



I'm sure we can disagree on some of the chance percentages above and I'm not a mathematician, but I see a good chance in 2013 for 8 wins on that schedule. That's assuming a good, but not great, BYU team. If we manage to put together a special season, it's the kind of schedule that could propel us into the national championship discussion.



Undefeated against Fresno, Air Froce, Wyoming, and UNLV does not get us into the national discussion. It would leave us like NIU, defending our position.



Is the goal to be NIU? Or is the goal to become a legitimate top program that can be part of the national discussion?
S
Stirfry
Cougs_Rule wrote:
I'd much rather see the games we had this year, and our bowl, over NIU's. What's the point of being in a BCS bowl if that's how you get there? Our 2009 Vegas Bowl was a better bowl than many BCS bowls are.


The point is, winning is better than losing. We'll see how folks feel after two seasons of discontent. For a 1-8 record against better opponents?? That's what people want? For what? To see how well BYU stacks up against the big boys? Let me read the last chapter for You and save you the pain.

The head coach leaves or gets forced out by big boosters who refuse to support losing.

Now, can we get back to more games we have a chance of winning since all the stats Spiff and Scott can muster show we pretty much suck against better teams across four decades.

I have tried to hate Bib for a lot of reasons, but on this we have had similar opinions for as long as Ive been on this forum. So, if we have to go thru this "period" of time, this insanity of trying the same thing over and over expecting different results, only to create thru the very expectation building that Bronco and Heaps did and all the fans salivating over the prospects only to see heads roll and discontent mount up--forget about it.

Maybe last years Tshirts slogan "Rise Up" was meant to be a Rising up in effort and wins but it led to a rising up of discontented fans that will continue into next year. Maybe next years slogan should be "Stand Down" bc that's what's going to happen with fans who hate losing more than they like winning 1 for 8 against good teams. And from "Stand down" it will lead to "Step Down" which one or more coaches will do this year and more next.


Didn't we just finish our 3rd season of discontent?



I may be in the minority but I'd be bored out of my mind if BYU was playing NIU schedule and I'd probably find myself duck hunting on a lot more saturday mornings than preparing to go to Provo. I guess it depends on what your perspective of losing is. To me going 1-2 against Notre Dame is preferable to going 3-0 against Wyoming. We've already lost if we just play Wyoming.
Y
YNot
Just read this story at Sports Illustrated about a mock playoff selection committee



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/11/29/college-football-playoff-mock-selection-committee/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



The mock committee selected: 1) Notre Dame, 2) Alabama, 3) Florida, and 4) Oregon.



Looks like they didn't give as much weight to conference championships as I thought they would/should have. Seems like the committee did just the opposite. Florida and Oregon got credit for "tough" losses, whereas Georgia and Stanford success in conference play was not enough. Kansas State (the Big 12 champ and ranked number 5) didn't even make the selection committee's top 8!



But strength of schedule was a definite factor, especially in favor of picking Florida over Georgia.



Conclusion for BYU if we ever want to sniff the playoff, shun the NIU-type schedule and embrace tough independent schedules.



Also interesting to hear comments that the selection committee process influenced some AD's to favor a larger playoff field. Picking among numbers 3,4,5, and 6 was just too tough and the stakes too high.
Advertisement
M
mizzoucoug
I don't believe these are the only alternatives. Fans are pissed not because of the results this season but because of who was playing. Riley Nelson is a DIII QB and had the longest leash of any QB on any team in recent NCAA history. Had we maximized our talent and lost 5 games everyone would be satisfied, I promise you. It's not the losses. It's how we have lost. There is a HUGE difference.



Why do you think the bowl game is lacking in hype? SDSU is a good matchup. I daresay it's because we have a coach who has somehow been blackmailed into playing a horrible QB no matter the situation. We already know what to expect and that SDSU will eat him for breakfast.
S
Stirfry
mizzoucoug wrote:
Fans are pissed not because of the results this season but because of who was playing. ... Had we maximized our talent and lost 5 games everyone would be satisfied, I promise you. It's not the losses. It's how we have lost. There is a HUGE difference.


+1 It'd be interesting to see what would happen to ticket sales if they announced Lark was starting.



(-1 to Nelson being a DIII qb. Maybe a half Nelson though :P )
K
KingCoug
Strategic scheduling = Both
S
Schmoe
If the ultimate goal is to get exposure, then playing big teams on the national stage throughout the year will do more for us than scheduling easy and being a flash-in-the-pan BCS bowl participant.
J
Jarhead
It's funny because before this year all the powder puff schedule proponents kept using Notre Dame as an example of why we shouldn't play too much quality competition. Notre Dame overscheduling hasn't been brought up too much lately. Go figure.
Advertisement
M
Mars
Jarhead wrote:
Notre Dame overscheduling hasn't been brought up too much lately. Go figure.

I'm going to guess that Notre Dame has a slight advantage over BYU in recruiting...
M
mormonrasta
Let's get used to playing a great schedule. Bowl games are nice and important, but I don't want my first taste of a quality opponent to be on the national stage. Winning big games in the regular season prepares you for winning big games in the postseason (unless your lucky enough to play a 4 loss Pittsburgh team in a major bowl).
C
Cougs_Rule
mizzoucoug wrote:
I don't believe these are the only alternatives. Fans are pissed not because of the results this season but because of who was playing. Riley Nelson is a DIII QB and had the longest leash of any QB on any team in recent NCAA history. Had we maximized our talent and lost 5 games everyone would be satisfied, I promise you. It's not the losses. It's how we have lost. There is a HUGE difference.



Why do you think the bowl game is lacking in hype? SDSU is a good matchup. I daresay it's because we have a coach who has somehow been blackmailed into playing a horrible QB no matter the situation. We already know what to expect and that SDSU will eat him for breakfast.


Thou hast spoken several truths. You are right on.

It would be so fascinating to actually measure the difference in ticket sales/attendance of Lark were to be named starter. so telling!
M
mormonrasta
mizzoucoug wrote:
I don't believe these are the only alternatives. Fans are pissed not because of the results this season but because of who was playing. Riley Nelson is a DIII QB and had the longest leash of any QB on any team in recent NCAA history. Had we maximized our talent and lost 5 games everyone would be satisfied, I promise you. It's not the losses. It's how we have lost. There is a HUGE difference.


What if we are maximizing our talent? According to the Scout.com recruiting rankings our recent recruiting classes look similar to Minnesota and Washington State. I wouldn't call those programs supremely talented. Is 7-5 unreasonable considering we've played 5 teams ranked at the end of the season in addition to a Washington State team that is supposedly as talented as we are, plus a Georgia Tech team that consistently outrecruits us and was 1 drive away from a BCS game, plus a Utah team that has recently outrecruited us and was a decent team at home this year?



I don't buy that the fanbase would be satisfied with 7-5 if we maximizing our talent because our fanbase consistently overstates our talent level. I certainly am disappointed with how this season turned out, but not from the perspective of us not being able to maximize our talent. Rather, my disappointment comes with the fact that we were in every single football game in the 4th quarter and lost all, but one of the close games. That's simply frustrating regardless of the talent that is out there.
C
Cougarbib
hawkwing wrote:
This was discussed quite a bit before last season with the over whelming majority wanting to play a tougher schedule, even if it meant 8 win seasons.



Maybe some people will have changed their mind.


And we may yet get those 8 wins if MWC - soon to be BEAST WEST SDSU does not beat us.



I took the BCS - winnable schedule - something like we played in 1984. The last time we win The NC. Maybe we could have played unbeaten ND for the NC on a neutral field - when it really mattered.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
Page 1 of 3
This is an archived topic from the original CougarCorner forum. New replies are not accepted.