Shouldn't we be discussing the Firing of Dave Rose?

Rose can't beat good teams on the road. His record is padded with beating crappy teams. He has to be one of the worst coaches in all of college basketball.



If you haven't figured it out yet, this post is TIC, but isn't this the standard we are holding the football coaches to?

Not quite the same. No reasonable person wanted to fire Bronco until he ignored the obvious with his QB.

Oh, I think it is the same. Last year, BYU lost to Loyola Marymount, St. Mary's and Gonzaga at home. This year, they are 5-3, they beat 5 scrubs and got blown out by the only 3 good teams they have played. Since Jimmer left, BYU hasn't beat anyone reputable.



I love Dave Rose, i think he is a terrific coach but the double standard here is pretty striking.

I love Dave Rose.



the double standard is there though.



Difference is that more fans think that coaching BYU football to a NC is a walk in the park that Bronco should have figured out a long time ago.

I don't have a problem with bronco's win loss record, only his mismanagement of personnel. Before this season I would have hated to think of us losing Bronco, now I wouldn't be as disappointed - has nothing to do with wins and losses. I would still hate to see dave rose leave.

Dude GO AWAY....The big difference is that in basketball you always have a shot to make the tourney and Rose always has his team rollin' by the end of the year. Rose has much less talent to work with and it shows when you're forced to start guys like Cusick and Zylstra. The difference is that Rose will make personal changes for the better of the team whereas Bronco plays players who have grit...

The basketball and football teams are in rather similar situations and there is a double standard but fans are more passionate about football, it's a football school.

Nope, not going to go away. I don't think that Dave Rose has had "less talent" to deal with than bronco. We have dominated the state of utah since he has been the head coach. the utes have been completely irrelevant for most of the time he has been head coach. We have had guys like Plaisted, who have not improved while here. We get knocked out of the tourney in the 1st round nearly every year. This team while young is loaded with talent and yet guys like Carlino couldn't hit the ocean from the pier this year. Carlino started the year last year on a tear and looked all world, this year he has lost his starting job, why hasn't this talent been developed? You guys are so quick to jump on the fire Bronco bandwagon when IMO, he has done more with what he inherited than Rose has and probably more than any of the coaches that get mentioned as better coaches than him (ie, kwhit, peterson, patterson). If we are going to be fair, where is the criticism of Rose.



Once again, I am playing devils advocate here, I think that Rose is a great coach and BYU is lucky to have him.

One last thought, Jimmer had to work his way into the starting lineup, wasn't started as a freshman and the guy he was backing up was not nearly as good as he was as a freshman, where is the outrage over that? Isn't that mismanaging personel? Carlino is way more talented than Cusic, why don't we keep starting Carlino and give him big minutes in order for him to work through his struggles, maybe even at the expense of lost games since he is the more talented guy. Why aren't we busting Dave Rose's chops over that? Where is the outrage?

Well, look on the bright side, some will consider this season a success as long as we beat :utard: , doesn't matter that we'll finish 4th or 5th in the conference and not sniff meaningful post-season play.

FRDBTR



I could not have said this better. Like you - I am ecstatic that Dave Rose - who by the way should be held accountable for the cupboard being bare and riding the Chris Collinsworth horse too long and then grabbing whatever JUCO player is around to fill slots for oft injured players who finally do hang it up - is here as our head coach.



There is a double standard here.



Big one. Simply is.



But I think the scheduling is actually a little smarter than FB scheduling. A mediocre team like we have this year - can actually have a winning season. A great team by BYU standards could pop 30 wins. Maybe even take 2 nd or 3rd in a weak conference.



But I do wish Dave Rice was still here.



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Ok, I'll bite, since its unclear whether you actually believe the flimsiness of Your argument and are just being the "Devil's advocate"......is Bronco really a devil??? hmmmm.



Answer me this. Why then is this phenomenon occurring with Bronco and not Rose. Do you think the fans are 'spontaneously protesting'/combusting over Bronco? Do you think those FEW, VOCAL fans who have turned on Bronco hated him to begin with?



So, if you're argument is true, and that is a big IF, answer why it has happened. Answer why they havent turned on Coach Rose and have on Bronco. I have some guesses coming from you and Bib which just aren't worth entering into, so, please, Devil's advocatingly "educate" us--'Bronco style' if you prefer.

Many people have already addressed the "why?" It's that BYU is a football school first and foremost, and so there is a double-standard at the university about what the expectations are for each program. Add to that the laughable assertion of a few individuals on this board who have tried to claim that our basketball program is the gold standard for the university and is headed in the right direction while the terrible football team is headed in the wrong direction, and you get threads started to point out the absurdity like this one. That's WHY.

Rose doesn't talk about the Final Four and/or a National Championship every offseason. Bronco talks about the BCS and a National Championship every offseason. Bronco sets his own higher standard.

snoscythe wrote:
Rose doesn't talk about the Final Four and/or a National Championship every offseason. Bronco talks about the BCS and a National Championship every offseason. Bronco sets his own higher standard.

Fans get mad at Bronco because he's honest. If Dave Rose's goal is not the NC, I'd be very disappointed. Simply because Bronco says it, doesn't mean that the standard is any different. Any fan worth their salt should recognize what our goals should be at a school like BYU and not have to depend on coach-speak to decide what to expect. Do you really think fans would sit idly by this football season like they are with basketball if Bronco simply didn't state his goals?

snoscythe wrote:
Rose doesn't talk about the Final Four and/or a National Championship every offseason. Bronco talks about the BCS and a National Championship every offseason. Bronco sets his own higher standard.

Although this is absolutely true - even if Bronco did not set those expectations - those same vocal fans insist that 10-11 wins a season vs cupcakes is not sufficient. Even a BCS Bowl was not sufficient. Doing it twice was not sufficient. Even winning a BCS Bowl was not sufficient. Winning one twice would not have satisfied. That would have just matched what TCU, BSU, and U did.



Those fans demand an undefeated season and a schedule that would command the NC game. And of course, they would not be satisfied losing that game - ranked #2 - because U was ranked #2. Those fans demanded better.



The bar for football got raised in 1984. LaVell Edwards raised it by winning the NC. I will not go into asterisks, but that was LaVell's undoing - because fans immediately wanted to do it again but vs a tougher schedule. BYU started to schedule up and started losing more games - and soon fans decided Chow and Edwards were all washed up.



Along came Crowton with those fans acting like he was the savior - but claiming he would be inheriting a bare cupboard. And of course, the bare cupboard took Crowton to 12-0 until Staley went down. But Crowton and his coaches and his technology and innovation, and recruits were going to take us to the next level.



Down - unfortunately.



Bronco fixed that - and inherited those expectations which got further amplified when U, BSU, and TCU rose up right in our faces.



Basketball has never suffered from such ridiculous expectations - because basketball has never snuffed that level of success. But stay tuned - If U gets another Majerus, or Dave Rice takes UNLV to final four glory, or Stew Morrill catches lightening in a bottle - heat will come.



But Rose is also much more warm and likeable to media and fans and those strengths and recent Jimmer success will keep fans patient unless the Timpview boys get back from their missions and never make it past the second round.



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Whoa...hold it right there. True, BYU is a football school. However, Rose has had a BYU team, that he recruited, be ranked 5th in the nation legitimately and not exposed on national TV as in Bronco's case. He had a team that was a 1 player suspension away from a legitimate chance at a title. He's had a team that beat the #4 and #6 ranked team soundly on national TV. He doesn't get the type of talent in recruits as Bronco does. He shows adjustments almost every game based on talent and production not on principle and grit. He makes good in-game adjustments. He shows wise in-game coaching decisions unlike Bronco who goes for two in Boise because he saw Patterson with TCU do it the year before. Bronco's success has come from players recruited from other coaches. His highlight was a win against Oklahoma who's started QB was knocked out of the game. The difference is Rose's coaching acumen has had his teams over perform while Bronco's under performs. There is no double standard here!

Wait, we finished ranked #5 in the country? I must have missed that. Rose didn't lose to LMU at home last year? He didn't get the best player in the country as a recruit in Jimmer Fredette? He doesn't have Hawses and Emerys flowing to BYU (not to mention Mika)? Bronco didn't have a part in knocking Bradford out of the OK game by getting to him time and time again with HIS defensive scheme? Bronco's team don't overperform, so you were expecting the season we had in 2006? Rose hasn't lost in the conference tourney every year, even as a #1 seed? How is that NOT underperforming? Rose hasn't lost to mediocre teams already this year? Stop making excuses, there's an obvious double-standard.

BTW, I think the place where Rose is weakest is in recruiting. This season we are struggling because we lack a legitimate 5, our lone legitimate 4 plays the 5, and we also lack a legitimate 3 or 1. Other than that, Rose has done very well.