How much has BYU improved from last year

After watching Carlino go 0-9, zero points, put up a stinker of a game, and our perimeter defense is slow to rotate and defend the 3 point shot. This kills us against good shooting teams (see St. Mary's, Loyola, Gonzaga, etc.). What has changed given FSU killed us on penetration, team speed, and great 3 point shooting (38.7% coming into game).



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byucougar1 wrote:
After watching Carlino go 0-9, zero points, put up a stinker of a game, and our perimeter defense is slow to rotate and defend the 3 point shot. This kills us against good shooting teams (see St. Mary's, Loyola, Gonzaga, etc.). What has changed given FSU killed us on penetration, team speed, and great 3 point shooting (38.7% coming into game).



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Not much. We need another threat. We only have two: Davies and Haws.



Yes, the defense is slow, but FSU was a crazy athletic team.



Going to be a couple of years till we're dominant.



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This team was expected to drop off compared to last year which dropped off compared to the prior year



....... 1....2.....3



Should be a couple of guys chiming in soon about BB being on the rise while football is on the downward slope and will remind us that since there are a million basketball teams, BYU can lose like this and all is well -



Even if FSU just lost to GA Southern or something like that - very recently.



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One thing is for sure - if our guard play is poor, it carries over into every aspect of our game. Yes, FSU is athletic and shot 3s very well. However, Ireland, Pangos and Mr. D of St. Mary's are also very good. This game is a wakeup call that we need to find some stability at PG or we will get owned big time. I look for Calvert to see more playing time if Carlino doesn't show up.



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Cougarbib wrote:
This team was expected to drop off compared to last year which dropped off compared to the prior year



....... 1....2.....3



Should be a couple of guys chiming in soon about BB being on the rise while football is on the downward slope and will remind us that since there are a million basketball teams, BYU can lose like this and all is well -



Even if FSU just lost to GA Southern or something like that - very recently.



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Some perspective is always nice.



Under Rose, BYU has gone to the NCAA tourney 6 consecutive times. I believe there are only 4 other schools in college with that kind of run right now.



Prior to Rose, BYU's longest streak was 4 years in a row. Should we not make it this year, 1 year out of the last 7 is hardly a trend.



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Gunk wrote:

This team was expected to drop off compared to last year which dropped off compared to the prior year



....... 1....2.....3



Should be a couple of guys chiming in soon about BB being on the rise while football is on the downward slope and will remind us that since there are a million basketball teams, BYU can lose like this and all is well -



Even if FSU just lost to GA Southern or something like that - very recently.



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Some perspective is always nice.



Under Rose, BYU has gone to the NCAA tourney 6 consecutive times. I believe there are only 4 other schools in college with that kind of run right now.



Prior to Rose, BYU's longest streak was 4 years in a row. Should we not make it this year, 1 year out of the last 7 is hardly a trend.



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Kinda like ten-win seasons and being ranked in football...

Lets say that last years team was hypothetically given an arbitrary score of 100. We get Haws back, which is a +20. But we lost Hartsock, which is a -30. I'd also say that Davies has improved +5, which puts us just a little worse than we were at this time last year.



But there are great things coming in BYU hoops in 2 or 3 years.

I would say that it is too early in the season to conclude that BYU is or is not better than last year, or the year before for that matter. Even great teams lose games in basketball. How many teams have gone undefeated in the last 20 years? They didn't look good last night, however, part of the problem was that they didn't hit shots that they should have hit, that they would normally hit. There must have been 4 wide open 3s missed in the first half alone. The next question is, is this a trend that will haunt them during the entire year or is it the aberation? Florida State matched up well against our strengths. They had a big 7' player that got our bigs into foul trouble early. They had a great defense that was able to limit the effectiveness of our running game and force us into a half court offense. Once in the half court offense, they limited the effectiveness of our big men, especially when Davies was out of the game. Finally, our point guard had his worst game of the year. Let's see what tonight brings.

ND game showed more of the same. Poor guard play, ineffective Davies - needs to stay out of foul trouble and stay in the game can't help us on the bench, we are poor at preventing penetration and slow in getting back/rotating to defending the 3. We also had second poor night of shooting the 3's. Sound familiar? Same issues that we had last year and why we couldn't defeat very good teams. Need some consistency at PG, depth in front court, athleticism on perimeter. We have until conference games to get this straitened out or we have just given our opponents a blue print on how to defeat us regularly.



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I've decided that it is what it is this year. Similar to last year. And this is coming from a guy who is more invested emotionally in the basketball team than the football team. This year will have a LOT of growing pains. 5-8 losses against WCC teams, probably an early exit in conference tournament play and Rose's streak of tournament appearances appears to be in serious trouble.



It is what it is. I love this team. Love coach Rose and will be cheering them on all year. Will never quit tuning and won't turn a game off early. This team will compete, that's what I like about them.

hawkwing wrote:
Lets say that last years team was hypothetically given an arbitrary score of 100. We get Haws back, which is a +20. But we lost Hartsock, which is a -30. I'd also say that Davies has improved +5, which puts us just a little worse than we were at this time last year.



But there are great things coming in BYU hoops in 2 or 3 years.

The thread should read, How much has BYU dropped off from last year.



Hawk is onto something. Defensively we are not near as good. But lets weigh every position by 20 points or 1/5 of the team and score this by position--



1-- same. Not showing improvement over last year. Which sort of means we have lost ground if other teams have improved. Net 0



2--same as above. This isn't trending very well. Net 0



3--wash. Improvement in offense (+15?)with Haws over Abouo; but not improved on Defense (-10) over Charles. Net gain +5 speaking optimistically.



4--big loss. Yes, -30 over last year, but weighted in more like -20. Sharp looks afraid to be out there on O and just cannot and will not match up very well on D. Not to leave out the help side D to Davies and shot blocking that Noah brought. Net-Net may be as high as a full -20.



5--same as 1 and 2. Which is quite scary when you think about it. Brandon is not playing better, smarter, or like the leader he should be. Stupid ticky tack fouls mixed in with having to anchor the Interior D without Charles and Noah. Net -5.



Bench--neglible. Probably the same plus or minus.



That puts my rough estimate that this years team is -20 to -25% worse than last year. I would bet that our record, though early, will end up with a -20 to -25% shift in the win loss column.

Maybe Kaufusi could add some much needed beef, because otherwise I think we will see a lot of what ND did to us. Attack Davies, foul trouble, then when our D sucks in they drain the threes. We will have to out score and out run teams

I am very excited about Haws. I am still excited about Davies ability to score. However he needs to go through shock therapy so he stops reaching and trying to swing at the ball to block it. We need him on the floor.



Carlino needs to run drills to keep his dribble at waist level.

Is there a drill to run down the court and not launch up a terrible, off-balance 3?

hawkwing wrote:
Is there a drill to run down the court and not launch up a terrible, off-balance 3?

yes there is. It's called "riding the pine". Been there, done that. :blush:

I was thinking about it a little bit but we are missing Collinsworth and Rogers a lot. Not to mention Winder.



I like Josh Sharp but Collinsworth is big enough and tough enough to help solve some of rebounding and defensive woes.



Rogers would really help to space the floor. We very easily could have had some quality depth.



For that matter if we could have freed up a scholarship for Harrison that would have been great too.

Yeah the guard play is very weak this season. Unless Carlino learns how to shoot and not make repeated stupid passes we are in for a world of hurt. I am pleased to see our big guys (Austin, Sharp, and Harward) have some down low game, which is something we have not had in years. Each of them can score in the paint when covered 1 on 1. Crazy I know, but this bit of ability has been a major rarity at BYU (outside of Davies).

Gunk wrote:

This team was expected to drop off compared to last year which dropped off compared to the prior year



....... 1....2.....3



Should be a couple of guys chiming in soon about BB being on the rise while football is on the downward slope and will remind us that since there are a million basketball teams, BYU can lose like this and all is well -



Even if FSU just lost to GA Southern or something like that - very recently.



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Some perspective is always nice.



Under Rose, BYU has gone to the NCAA tourney 6 consecutive times. I believe there are only 4 other schools in college with that kind of run right now.



Prior to Rose, BYU's longest streak was 4 years in a row. Should we not make it this year, 1 year out of the last 7 is hardly a trend.



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I do not have any issue with Rose - just previous statements that BB is on an upward trajectory. It was when The Jimmer finished - been downward since - as expected - back to typical under Rose - which is pretty good - but plateau.



Sign Jabari Parker - expect another Jimmer type surge - even bigger if he plays 4 years - which is not likely - maybe 2 years - if he even signs.

Coach Rose is great for BYU. No complaints here.



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