BYU Bowl Strategy - Backfired?

A while back - as part of launching Independence - Tom Holmoe decided he needed to lock in some Bowls to ensure that BYU did not get left out entirely.



Did he sell our souls to the devil - we have seen the complaints - nothing to play for - not only Conf championships gone, but Bowl is pre-determined. And - crappy opponents - UTEP, Tulsa, and now 2nd place MWC. First place WAC will probably be ranked higher in its last year before extinction.



We do get a different venue each year - but



Recent projections show Utah or even a 2nd place WAC USU who will have no bowl yie in due to PAC having a zillion qualifying teams and WAC having only 1 bowl - filling in for Big East or others without enough qualifiers and playing someplace like Yankee Stadium vs a good team. Kind of like U last year.



Should we have remained a free agent and taken our chances each year - like a true Independent?

Tough question. I think Tulsa was a decent opponent. We have dropped relative to our Las Vegas Bowl legacy which was below our Holiday Bowl Legacy. This year - we will get a reasonably decent opponent. UTEP was crippled and bad by the time we played them.

Right now there's no difference from out past situation in the Mountain West Conference. It's one meaningless bowl or another. We still have to go undefeated to get a sniff at the big money BCS bowls. The upside from independence comes during the regular season with better scheduling. Not so much in the post season.

Bowl game in SF and SD, no brainer - its a win! Beats bowl game in LV or Boise, even Memphis. So to answer your question - whatever the opposite of a backfire is is what our Bowl situation is

ABYUFAN wrote:
Bowl game in SF and SD, no brainer - its a win! Beats bowl game in LV or Boise, even Memphis. So to answer your question - whatever the opposite of a backfire is is what our Bowl situation is

I wasn't thinking location as much as opponent.



Holiday Bowl gave us The National Championship. Nuff said? Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Navy, WSU, etc.



Las Vegas Bowl gave us Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, CAL, AZ iirc.



Indy gave us UTEP, Tulsa, SDSU



Location: San Diego was nice and will be nice. Las Vegas was convenient - I travelled to several of those - venue sucks though - and cold and windy sometimes.



Some of our better bowls were none of the above.



K-State Cotton

Ohio State - Citrus Bowl iirc

Okie State - Twice maybe Fiesta Bowl before it became elite

Cougarbib wrote:

Bowl game in SF and SD, no brainer - its a win! Beats bowl game in LV or Boise, even Memphis. So to answer your question - whatever the opposite of a backfire is is what our Bowl situation is

I wasn't thinking location as much as opponent.



Holiday Bowl gave us The National Championship. Nuff said? Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Navy, WSU, etc.



Las Vegas Bowl gave us Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, CAL, AZ iirc.



Indy gave us UTEP, Tulsa, SDSU



Location: San Diego was nice and will be nice. Las Vegas was convenient - I travelled to several of those - venue sucks though - and cold and windy sometimes.



Some of our better bowls were none of the above.



K-State Cotton

Ohio State - Citrus Bowl iirc

Okie State - Twice maybe Fiesta Bowl before it became elite

For our Holiday Bowl National championship game, the Holiday Bowl was pretty much what the Poinsettia Bowl is now, a before Christmas bowl game with no real good tie ins, and the 6-5 Michigan team we got was after a number of other teams turned down an invite.



Anyone who thinks this is a backfire, chosses to not like it, Like the old saying goes, you don't have to drink this set up pretty, you have to drink it ugly!

Something is better than nothing and we're not good enough to play in better bowls.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Bowl game in SF and SD, no brainer - its a win! Beats bowl game in LV or Boise, even Memphis. So to answer your question - whatever the opposite of a backfire is is what our Bowl situation is

I wasn't thinking location as much as opponent.



Holiday Bowl gave us The National Championship. Nuff said? Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Navy, WSU, etc.



Las Vegas Bowl gave us Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, CAL, AZ iirc.



Indy gave us UTEP, Tulsa, SDSU



Location: San Diego was nice and will be nice. Las Vegas was convenient - I travelled to several of those - venue sucks though - and cold and windy sometimes.



Some of our better bowls were none of the above.



K-State Cotton

Ohio State - Citrus Bowl iirc

Okie State - Twice maybe Fiesta Bowl before it became elite

UTEP was pre-indy. /endofthread

Cougarbib wrote:
I wasn't thinking location as much as opponent.



Holiday Bowl gave us The National Championship. Nuff said? Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Navy, WSU, etc.



Las Vegas Bowl gave us Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, CAL, AZ iirc.



Indy gave us UTEP, Tulsa, SDSU



Location: San Diego was nice and will be nice. Las Vegas was convenient - I travelled to several of those - venue sucks though - and cold and windy sometimes.



Some of our better bowls were none of the above.



K-State Cotton

Ohio State - Citrus Bowl iirc

Okie State - Twice maybe Fiesta Bowl before it became elite

BYU also played Ohio State twice in the Holiday Bowl--other Holiday Bowl opponents included Penn State, Texas A&M, and Pony Express SMU.



BYU played Kansas in the Aloha Bowl.

ABYUFAN wrote:
For our Holiday Bowl National championship game, the Holiday Bowl was pretty much what the Poinsettia Bowl is now, a before Christmas bowl game with no real good tie ins, and the 6-5 Michigan team we got was after a number of other teams turned down an invite.

I don't know--the Holiday Bowl provided BYU with several high-profile, ranked opponents. In 11 visits to the Holiday Bowl, BYU played 6 top 20 teams. In 5 visits to Vegas, BYU only played 1 ranked team. The Liberty Bowl was 2 for 2 in providing ranked opponents.



Here are BYU's ranked (pre-bowl) opponents by bowl:



Cotton Bowl: Kansas State (#14 in 1996)



Florida Citrus Bowl: Ohio State (#17 in 1985)



Freedom Bowl: UCLA (#15 in 1986)



Holiday Bowl: SMU (#19 in 1980), Washington State (#20 in 1981), Ohio State (#17 in 1982 and #11 in 1993), Penn State (#18 in 1989), Iowa (#7 in 1991)



Las Vegas Bowl: Oregon State (#16 in 2009)



Liberty Bowl: Tulane (#10 in 1998), Louisville (#23 in 2001)



Motor City Bowl: Marshall (#11 in 1999)



Tangerine Bowl: Ok State (#14 in 1976)



BYU's record against ranked bowl opponents: 4-9-1

Cougarbib, I guess we all want the 80's back. Bowl tie in are different (and not to our advantage), our first years of independence uncertain as to how bowl access would be, and we aren't as good. If we were 11-1 (like 1985) or unbeaten (like 1984), the bowl tie ins wouldn't even be a question.



Let's see what happens after next year, the last of the tie ins. There are only three.

Devbo wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:
Bowl game in SF and SD, no brainer - its a win! Beats bowl game in LV or Boise, even Memphis. So to answer your question - whatever the opposite of a backfire is is what our Bowl situation is

I wasn't thinking location as much as opponent.



Holiday Bowl gave us The National Championship. Nuff said? Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Navy, WSU, etc.



Las Vegas Bowl gave us Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, CAL, AZ iirc.



Indy gave us UTEP, Tulsa, SDSU



Location: San Diego was nice and will be nice. Las Vegas was convenient - I travelled to several of those - venue sucks though - and cold and windy sometimes.



Some of our better bowls were none of the above.



K-State Cotton

Ohio State - Citrus Bowl iirc

Okie State - Twice maybe Fiesta Bowl before it became elite

UTEP was pre-indy. /endofthread

This is true - but it was the first taste of what you get when you can't get The Las Vegas Bowl.



But that isn't the question.



This is the question.



We could have gambled and hoped a Bowl usually tied to a big conference would end up needing a team when said conference did not have enough eligible teams to meet their commitments. The article I mentioned predicted that U, if eligible, and USU will get one of those this year - with a better opponent than SDSU. Also, for those that want something to hold their interest - the complaint about already knowing what bowl BYU would be in goes away. U if even eligible, will probably give PAC more qualifiers than they have bowl tie-ins for and would be staying home - except Big East and ACC might be short a team. Same story for 2nd place WAC team. BYU could have chosen to take this gamble each year.



BTW - I chose IDK - tough choice. And yes - I think Las Vegas gave us more exciting opponents - loved those wins over UCLA, Oregon, and OSU - especially Oregon.



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Mingjai wrote:

For our Holiday Bowl National championship game, the Holiday Bowl was pretty much what the Poinsettia Bowl is now, a before Christmas bowl game with no real good tie ins, and the 6-5 Michigan team we got was after a number of other teams turned down an invite.

I don't know--the Holiday Bowl provided BYU with several high-profile, ranked opponents. In 11 visits to the Holiday Bowl, BYU played 6 top 20 teams. In 5 visits to Vegas, BYU only played 1 ranked team. The Liberty Bowl was 2 for 2 in providing ranked opponents.



Here are BYU's ranked (pre-bowl) opponents by bowl:



Cotton Bowl: Kansas State (#14 in 1996)



Florida Citrus Bowl: Ohio State (#17 in 1985)



Freedom Bowl: UCLA (#15 in 1986)



Holiday Bowl: SMU (#19 in 1980), Washington State (#20 in 1981), Ohio State (#17 in 1982 and #11 in 1993), Penn State (#18 in 1989), Iowa (#7 in 1991)



Las Vegas Bowl: Oregon State (#16 in 2009)



Liberty Bowl: Tulane (#10 in 1998), Louisville (#23 in 2001)



Motor City Bowl: Marshall (#11 in 1999)



Tangerine Bowl: Ok State (#14 in 1976)



BYU's record against ranked bowl opponents: 4-9-1

Good data. Curious. Was Colorado ranked when Detmer came in to beat them when Eric Bienemy was their star RB? Freedom Bowl in Anaheim. I was there and I know Colorado was favored.



I was also at that UCLA Freedom Bowl. Iirc, five defensive players - many if not all starters - got kicked off the team right before that game - and Gaston Green and Eric Ball ran wild on the back-ups. Steve Young's brother, Mike Young may have been the BYU QB for much of that game, iirc.

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Cougarbib wrote:

Bowl game in SF and SD, no brainer - its a win! Beats bowl game in LV or Boise, even Memphis. So to answer your question - whatever the opposite of a backfire is is what our Bowl situation is

I wasn't thinking location as much as opponent.



Holiday Bowl gave us The National Championship. Nuff said? Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Navy, WSU, etc.



Las Vegas Bowl gave us Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, CAL, AZ iirc.



Indy gave us UTEP, Tulsa, SDSU



Location: San Diego was nice and will be nice. Las Vegas was convenient - I travelled to several of those - venue sucks though - and cold and windy sometimes.



Some of our better bowls were none of the above.



K-State Cotton

Ohio State - Citrus Bowl iirc

Okie State - Twice maybe Fiesta Bowl before it became elite

This whole topic seems somewhat bizarre coming from you Bib. Haven't you been stressing the importance of not overscheduling? Shouldn't you be championing the idea that while the Holiday bowl brought us a lot of good competition, it also brought us a rather poor won-loss post season record? By securing these lower tier bowls, we are securing more likely wins and avoiding looking bad in our hopes to make an argument for being included in BCS games in later years, right?



I would expect you to be arguing what's the point of allowing the possibility for getting in higher profile bowls, if they're not a BCS bowl. We would most likely take the chance and as a result be more likely to lose.



My opinion is I would like us to be in better bowls, but I see no problem in securing bowl deals as we start out in independence. We have enough uncertainty trying to get our regular season scheduled for the next few years (even next year is still in question). Once we get that worked out, and once we demonstrate we are a legitimate winner, the bowl situation will have a chance to be improved. And of course if we have an amazing year, we still have a shot at a BCS game.

JarHead



I understand your opening comment and commend you for being so keenly aware of my thoughts on scheduling - as I obviously have deeply held feelings about it - but I can resolve what seems inconsistent for you.



For me - and only because the world around us has made this a beauty contest -



The regular season is about positioning yourself to get a well suited Prom Date - on a NEUTRAL field.



I have always said - let's play the big boys in a Bowl - when it really counts.



I like a bowl game that is near 50/50 with BYU a slight underdog. Slight.



And had we rolled the dice last year - 10-3 was not going to get us a BCS Bowl. It might have gotten us a Bowl with a bigger name than Tulsa - having an off year - that might come in flat - thinking they deserved a better opponent. It would be fun to bust their chops.



But I thought Tulsa was a very good team - better than their record - like us this year. But no brand recognition.

SDSU or whomever we get this year will also be decent enough - no brand recognition, though.

That was why I voted



IDK



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At 5-4 why even bring a thread like this up? BYU will play in a bowl game that is just right with there record when the season is over. BYU is not who some on this board think they are. There a mid to lower level team that is going to play in a mid to lower level bowl game. And please stop bringing up the Holiday Bowl. That was over 20 years ago, its time to move on.



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ESPN has these bowl contracts. They hold the possibity of moving some teams around for a better match up. If we were 11-1, there would be a good chance that a change would be made. We just have not had a good enough season to warrant it.



Please Tulsa was a good match up last year so what is the point of this thread?

scott715 wrote:
ESPN has these bowl contracts. They hold the possibity of moving some teams around for a better match up. If we were 11-1, there would be a good chance that a change would be made. We just have not had a good enough season to warrant it.



Please Tulsa was a good match up last year so what is the point of this thread?

You and I think Tulsa was a good match-up. SDSU will be this year too. Others complain a lot, though. I would rather play AZ, ASU, UCLA, UW, BSU, or a similar caliber team from Big 10 or Big 12 or Big East or ACC, or SEC if we we had the choice. But it is a crap shoot vs a sure thing.



And I agree with A12345



We have not deserved a much better bowl than we got, but maybe slightly better.



Poinsettia is a great location. We will be fine if we win.



Just not much bragging rights compared to the potential for ridicule if we lose.



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