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What would BYU's record be...

by Mars · 10/29/2012

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M
Mars


What would BYU's record be if, say, Nick Saban was our head coach this season? Or maybe the Oregon coach, or Notre Dame, or Boise State, or TCU?



Kind of a troll question, sorry, but I'm curious what people think. I think we had a lot of talent this season, but have mismanaged some games pretty badly.
C
Cougs_Rule
Mars wrote:


What would BYU's record be if, say, Nick Saban was our head coach this season? Or maybe the Oregon coach, or Notre Dame, or Boise State, or TCU?



Kind of a troll question, sorry, but I'm curious what people think. I think we had a lot of talent this season, but have mismanaged some games pretty badly.


Sorry, but is that coach going to let the qb run the team, even when he's a cripple? Or when he begs to go in? It truly wouldn't matter.



But lets not get greedy. if we had a fiery OC and fiery, competent Oline coach, we would likely be undefeated with this D and this schedule.
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BoiseBYU
7-2. I think the other coaches would've pulled Riley sooner and we win at Utah and BSU. OSU we lose and not sure a coach gets the ball to Hoff....but I think there was a major failure in letting a very hurt Riley play at Utah and BSU and just feel that Taysom would've done us better, at least enough to pull out wins....I actually think Doman calls and has been calling very good games and don't fault him there. The only decision i really take issue with is riding Riley much longer than I think was warranted....
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frdbtr
BoiseBYU wrote:
7-2. I think the other coaches would've pulled Riley sooner and we win at Utah and BSU. OSU we lose and not sure a coach gets the ball to Hoff....but I think there was a major failure in letting a very hurt Riley play at Utah and BSU and just feel that Taysom would've done us better, at least enough to pull out wins....I actually think Doman calls and has been calling very good games and don't fault him there. The only decision i really take issue with is riding Riley much longer than I think was warranted....


I agree, the decision to play a very hurt Riley Nelson was a huge coaching mistake. Trouble is we have no way of knowing if Lark or Taysom would have been able to pull out victories in those games. Can you imagine a Freshman Taysom Hill taking that opening snap into the end zone against utah? It may have turned out looking as ugly as the opening snap in 11 did.
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Cougs_Rule
frdbtr wrote:
7-2. I think the other coaches would've pulled Riley sooner and we win at Utah and BSU. OSU we lose and not sure a coach gets the ball to Hoff....but I think there was a major failure in letting a very hurt Riley play at Utah and BSU and just feel that Taysom would've done us better, at least enough to pull out wins....I actually think Doman calls and has been calling very good games and don't fault him there. The only decision i really take issue with is riding Riley much longer than I think was warranted....


I agree, the decision to play a very hurt Riley Nelson was a huge coaching mistake. Trouble is we have no way of knowing if Lark or Taysom would have been able to pull out victories in those games. Can you imagine a Freshman Taysom Hill taking that opening snap into the end zone against utah? It may have turned out looking as ugly as the opening snap in 11 did.


Some merit to this. But at least pull him at half-time in those two games when it was clear he was not himself. Lark was a Sr and could have done at least as well as Utahs backup and with a few wildcat plays With Taysom we walk away with a W in both games.
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I
Isola
Who cares? If Nick Saban was BYU's coach I would be finding a new team.
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BoiseBYU
frdbtr wrote:
7-2. I think the other coaches would've pulled Riley sooner and we win at Utah and BSU. OSU we lose and not sure a coach gets the ball to Hoff....but I think there was a major failure in letting a very hurt Riley play at Utah and BSU and just feel that Taysom would've done us better, at least enough to pull out wins....I actually think Doman calls and has been calling very good games and don't fault him there. The only decision i really take issue with is riding Riley much longer than I think was warranted....


I agree, the decision to play a very hurt Riley Nelson was a huge coaching mistake. Trouble is we have no way of knowing if Lark or Taysom would have been able to pull out victories in those games. Can you imagine a Freshman Taysom Hill taking that opening snap into the end zone against utah? It may have turned out looking as ugly as the opening snap in 11 did.


Fair points. As for the Utah game, objectively, it will be hard to say for sure that a healthy Lark or Hill do even better....I think we know as to the BSU game--Taysom came in and moved the ball, certainly better than Riley was able to....I guess I get to choose to think that we'd have pulled it out at Utah.....
S
Stirfry
Mars wrote:


What would BYU's record be if, say, Nick Saban was our head coach this season? Or maybe the Oregon coach, or Notre Dame, or Boise State, or TCU?



Kind of a troll question, sorry, but I'm curious what people think. I think we had a lot of talent this season, but have mismanaged some games pretty badly.


TCU- We'd be decimated by Honor Code infractions and 2-7 :blush:



Oregon- We'd be a ticking time bomb of NCAA infractions without the benefit of Nike being too much for recruits to turn down. :sick:



Boise State- Maybe undefeated or 1-2 losses. On one hand I think benching Riley could have won us the Utah/Boise games. On the other, I think Riley was our best bet at Notre Dame and under that spotlight who knows what Taysom would have done. Oregon State was as much on the D as the O though. :)



Saban- We'd probably be really good with maybe 1 possibly 2 losses. I'm not sure I could cheer for us though. :angry:



Notre Dame- Maybe our best situation. He seems to have managed using 2 qb's this year very well and has an outstanding defense. (I think they use 2 qb's or did most of the year.) :D



I'd be more interested in seeing what could happen with a new O-line coach than a new head coach.
J
jonnylingo
one loss, possibly undefeated.
M
Mars


Obviously a head coach would need to be able to handle the Honor Code appropriately, but my point was that if you combine QB mis-management with wasted time outs with playing guys who aren't the best at their position, at least the Utah and Boise State games begin to appear to be ones that BYU should have won.
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Schmoe
Isola wrote:
Who cares? If Nick Saban was BYU's coach I would be finding a new team.


This. Two of the coaches named I'm convinced are cheaters, one is successful because he has the most resources and best recruiting in the country, and the other two have not been anything special this year.
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Mars
Schmoe wrote:
This. Two of the coaches named I'm convinced are cheaters, one is successful because he has the most resources and best recruiting in the country, and the other two have not been anything special this year.

And yet they know that time-outs have value, that the best player should start, and that QBs should be able to throw the football...
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Schmoe
Mars wrote:
This. Two of the coaches named I'm convinced are cheaters, one is successful because he has the most resources and best recruiting in the country, and the other two have not been anything special this year.

And yet they know that time-outs have value, that the best player should start, and that QBs should be able to throw the football...


Yes, all of them have zero shortcomings as coaches... :roll:
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
Yes, all of them have zero shortcomings as coaches... :roll:

Yes, Kim Kardashian and Tom Petty are equally good singers... :roll:



No, wait, there is a sliding scale of ability!
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Schmoe
Mars wrote:
Yes, all of them have zero shortcomings as coaches... :roll:

Yes, Kim Kardashian and Tom Petty are equally good singers... :roll:



No, wait, there is a sliding scale of ability!


Indeed there is, but methinks ye hyperbolize too much with this analogy. Where some coaches have strengths, others have weaknesses. None of the coaches you named are head and shoulders better than Bronco. Better in some areas? Without a doubt, but worse in some as well. What could Bronco do with all the NFL talent of Bama or ND?
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M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
What could Bronco do with all the NFL talent of Bama or ND?

Waste time-outs, over-estimate his team's strength, under-prepare for a big game, and sit some of the best players on the bench? Yes, I'm using a bit of hyperbole. I also think it's hyperbole to say that Bronco is almost as good as some of them. To me, that's like saying that BYU 2012 is "almost as good" as Alabama 2012. Clearly not.
C
Cougarbib
BoiseBYU wrote:
BoiseBYU wrote:
7-2. I think the other coaches would've pulled Riley sooner and we win at Utah and BSU. OSU we lose and not sure a coach gets the ball to Hoff....but I think there was a major failure in letting a very hurt Riley play at Utah and BSU and just feel that Taysom would've done us better, at least enough to pull out wins....I actually think Doman calls and has been calling very good games and don't fault him there. The only decision i really take issue with is riding Riley much longer than I think was warranted....


I agree, the decision to play a very hurt Riley Nelson was a huge coaching mistake. Trouble is we have no way of knowing if Lark or Taysom would have been able to pull out victories in those games. Can you imagine a Freshman Taysom Hill taking that opening snap into the end zone against utah? It may have turned out looking as ugly as the opening snap in 11 did.


Fair points. As for the Utah game, objectively, it will be hard to say for sure that a healthy Lark or Hill do even better....I think we know as to the BSU game--Taysom came in and moved the ball, certainly better than Riley was able to....I guess I get to choose to think that we'd have pulled it out at Utah.....


Even Taysom Hill would tell you he was not prepared to run the offense vs U. It would have been Lark - who claims he was told he would start. And we continue to see the lack of confidence in Lark. Then after Lark list a close one Vs Zu, he would have started vs BSU and lost another and T Hill would not have gotten the focused prep.



And remember this: Taysom Hill - right on about the 3 yard line had a chance to win the BSU game and failed. He did not see a wide open receiver in the middle of the endzone and then missed an open receiver in the right side of the endzone.



But it is so easy to assume that an even less experienced Hill would have even gotten to play over Lark at U and would not have made huge mistakes.



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M
Mingjai
Mars wrote:
What could Bronco do with all the NFL talent of Bama or ND?

Waste time-outs, over-estimate his team's strength, under-prepare for a big game, and sit some of the best players on the bench? Yes, I'm using a bit of hyperbole. I also think it's hyperbole to say that Bronco is almost as good as some of them. To me, that's like saying that BYU 2012 is "almost as good" as Alabama 2012. Clearly not.


This made me smile. The way I look at it, BYU will always have 2 games a year they lose because Bronco was out-coached. Usually it will come down to preparation, player management issues, or clock management issues, but 2 games lost because of coaching is about par for the course under Bronco.
C
Cougarbib
Mingjai wrote:
Schmoe wrote:
What could Bronco do with all the NFL talent of Bama or ND?

Waste time-outs, over-estimate his team's strength, under-prepare for a big game, and sit some of the best players on the bench? Yes, I'm using a bit of hyperbole. I also think it's hyperbole to say that Bronco is almost as good as some of them. To me, that's like saying that BYU 2012 is "almost as good" as Alabama 2012. Clearly not.


This made me smile. The way I look at it, BYU will always have 2 games a year they lose because Bronco was out-coached. Usually it will come down to preparation, player management issues, or clock management issues, but 2 games lost because of coaching is about par for the course under Bronco.

This might well be true. Let's say it is. Do other coaches get out coached or just Bronco?



How many games would you say BYU won this season by out coaching the opponent.



GT? USU?



Goes both ways.



But this is what is at the core of why this sounds like a crock to me



You are probably first in line to criticizing a bronco for winning the ones he is favored to win and losing when he is not favored. If that is true - nobody is out coaching anybody.



I do not think it is true.



It is almost true, bronco occasionally pulls off a mild upset.



Florida State pulled the upset - not south by winning but by blowing BYU out. But a loss is a loss. If a close loss is not a moral victory - a blowout loss is just a loss.



U has out coached Bronco on occasion and been out coached. Edge to Utah.



PAC 12 - Edge Bronco.



It is lunacy to say BSU out coached Bronco. Nobody comes out of there with a win. BYU was just one poorly executed play by a true freshman getting his first shot at running the play book from doing just that.



Bronco is not elite - at least not yet - maybe never. He is very good.



There has only been one good coach in the history of BYU football prior to Bronco. Simply 1.



Appreciate what you have.



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S
Stirfry
Cougarbib wrote:
And remember this: Taysom Hill - right on about the 3 yard line had a chance to win the BSU game and failed. He did not see a wide open receiver in the middle of the endzone and then missed an open receiver in the right side of the endzone.


I'm not sure any of our qb's make that play with how poorly the o-lineman performed. If he just had laid down infront of the defender at the snap he would have been more effective. Riley's arm would have not made that throw moving backwards (see the throw to Falslev in the ND game) and will never really know if Lark could have done it.
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