He Actually Said This?

I just read a quote from GT head coach about today's game. The quote was about the challenges the BYU offense presents and specifically that "Riley Nelson has a STRONG arm, but is most dangerous when he pulls it down and tucks it and runs".



Either that was a typo - or Coach is in for a bit of a surprise.



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Riley would beat you in arm wrestling, so it's strong, but that doesn't translate to throwing strength (Hi, my name's Tim Tebow...).

Schmoe wrote:
Riley would beat you in arm wrestling, so it's strong, but that doesn't translate to throwing strength (Hi, my name's Tim Tebow...).

He could probably even beat me right handed.

Cougarbib wrote:

Riley would beat you in arm wrestling, so it's strong, but that doesn't translate to throwing strength (Hi, my name's Tim Tebow...).

He could probably even beat me right handed.

:lol: I didn't mean you personally, but that he probably can put up more than your average NCAA QB in the weight room (but sure, I'd bet he's stronger than the average Cougar fan, as well :D ).

Cougarbib wrote:
I just read a quote from GT head coach about today's game. The quote was about the challenges the BYU offense presents and specifically that "Riley Nelson has a STRONG arm, but is most dangerous when he pulls it down and tucks it and runs".



Either that was a typo - or Coach is in for a bit of a surprise.



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I think this means we can rule the GT coach out as being Air Wolf

This actually is something I've always wondered about. A QB's "arm strength" has much more to do with technique than actual muscle size, so why don't you ever see these QB's with "weak arms" getting coached up to be able to throw harder?



Maybe I'm just underestimating the power of habit.

Heaps has skinny girl arms but has a pretty good cannon.

Did you see the arm the GT QB had on him. Riley had a cannon compared to their starter. It is all relative.

Even Riley had a cannon vs GT compared to what Riley has shown most of the season.

dmcougar wrote:
Even Riley had a cannon vs GT compared to what Riley has shown most of the season.

Riley looked good and played well - for the most part (the boneheaded INT and a few very open missed WRs, notwithstanding).



It's too bad either 1) he was able to convince coaches to play him when he was significantly less than 100% or 2) the coaches made an beyond stupid decision to play him when he was significantly less than 100%.



One (or both) of those two things cost BYU at least two wins this year.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Even Riley had a cannon vs GT compared to what Riley has shown most of the season.

Riley looked good and played well - for the most part (the boneheaded INT and a few very open missed WRs, notwithstanding).



It's too bad either 1) he was able to convince coaches to play him when he was significantly less than 100% or 2) the coaches made an beyond stupid decision to play him when he was significantly less than 100%.



One (or both) of those two things cost BYU at least two wins this year.

This in a nutshell is how the season will go down and be debated until the end of time. And FWIW I agree with you

SpiffCoug wrote:

Even Riley had a cannon vs GT compared to what Riley has shown most of the season.

Riley looked good and played well - for the most part (the boneheaded INT and a few very open missed WRs, notwithstanding).



It's too bad either 1) he was able to convince coaches to play him when he was significantly less than 100% or 2) the coaches made an beyond stupid decision to play him when he was significantly less than 100%.



One (or both) of those two things cost BYU at least two wins this year.

This in a nutshell is how the season will go down and be debated until the end of time. And FWIW I agree with you

SpiffCoug wrote:

Even Riley had a cannon vs GT compared to what Riley has shown most of the season.

Riley looked good and played well - for the most part (the boneheaded INT and a few very open missed WRs, notwithstanding).



It's too bad either 1) he was able to convince coaches to play him when he was significantly less than 100% or 2) the coaches made an beyond stupid decision to play him when he was significantly less than 100%.



One (or both) of those two things cost BYU at least two wins this year.

I respectfully disagree. They did not have a back-up ready and knew it.



The problems go back to at least 2009. Coaches should have used 2009 to test and measure Riley every time we had a big lead - we did not get many big leads under Hall, unfortunately, but we missed some opportunities to measure Riley.



In 2010, when Jake struggled, Lark should have been given a shot -especially when Heaps was losing to teams he was supposed to beat. Lark would have been measured and gotten some experience.



In 2011, having measured Heaps, Lark, and Nelson - open competition in Spring. Then when Heaps faltered - it would have been clear whether to go with Nelson or Lark. Bif the answer was Nelson, use those cupcakes when Riley was injured to further develop Lark and Heaps.



Find a way to keep Heaps here. In 2012 -use Nelson, Heaps, and Lark as needed.



That would have gotten two more wins and coaches would have started Heaps or Lark vs Utah and BSU.

I think Lark could have been ready. He had taken all the reps the week leading up to the Utah game. He had looked decent enough the week before in playing most of the 2nd half against Weber.



The coaches flat out blew it in dealing with Riley's injury. He should have been completely shut down. He didn't practice and was still allowed to play.

Cougarbib --



I know it isn't fashonable on this site to defend Jake Heaps (while it is quite common to continue to read Heaps bashing) - but I couldn't let your comment slide by about Heaps struggling in 2010 "losing games he was supposed to win". Exactly what were those game(S) he lost that he was supposed to win.



Let's see - he lost 4 games as a starter in 2010. He lost to Nevada in his very first college start - a Nevada team that ended up 13-1 and was a bowl winner. Is a true freshman starting in his very first college start supposed to win this? In your dreams buddy.



He lost at Utah State. An up and coming Utah State under Gary Anderson. An angry Utah State that had home field advantage and was seething after years of BYU domination. Jake's second college start. Was he supposed to win this. Perhaps.



He lost at TCU. A TCU team that was perhaps the best team in college football that year. If there had been a four team playoff, TCU would have been in it. And had a shot at a true national championship. Was the true freshman Heaps supposed to win that one? Only in anyones very wildest dreams. I guess since Beck had won there a few years before some were expecting it - however irrationally. But a) Beck was not a true freshman when he did it and b) TCU was not as good the year Beck did it. TCU went 13-0 in 2010.



He lost a very close game at Utah. A Utah team that ended 10-3 and ranked. Was Jake supposed to win this one? (By the way, in Jakes 2 starts against Utah he had the 2 highest PER of any BYU quarterback in the past 6 years - since John Beck. Both of Jake's 2 starts against Utah beat all 3 of Hall's PER and Nelson's too - look it up). Perhaps he should have beat Utah in 2010. Only blue goggles think so, but perhaps he should have.



In very fact, even in 2011 with a totally inept OC guiding the way, Heaps didn't lose any games he was "supposed to win". Doman lost the Texas game - as even those Heaps haters that I am personally acquainted with admitted at the time. And Heaps did not lose the Utah game in 2011. Again, he had a higher PER than any other QB against Utah since Beck. But the entire team imploded in that game, and ruined a good effort by Jake.

Heaps did what he was supposed to do in 2010. Get better as he played more. He stunk once he could no longer share snaps and then took him a few games to get his feet underneath him.



Heaps 2010 (who showed promise for the future) should be separate from Heaps 2011 (who was a colossal failure).

Alphaleonis wrote:

(By the way, in Jakes 2 starts against Utah he had the 2 highest PER of any BYU quarterback in the past 6 years - since John Beck. Both of Jake's 2 starts against Utah beat all 3 of Hall's PER and Nelson's too - look it up).

2012 Nelson 111.15

2011 Heaps 107.84

2010 Heaps 114.74

2009 Hall 93.3

2008 Hall 68.83

2007 Hall 93.99



I'm not commenting on your overall point, however, it appears to me that Heaps had the 1st and 3rd highest PERs in the last 6 years, Nelson had the second highest (per your instructions, I looked it up).

rblack



You are right.



I wish there were some way to look up PER by halves. I believe Jake would have had a very good PER in the first half against Utah 2011. He had over 200 yards passing in that half. If the rest of the team hadn't kept handing the ball to Utah, we would have won by at least 3 touchdowns.IMHO

Alphaleonis wrote:
rblack



You are right.



I wish there were some way to look up PER by halves. I believe Jake would have had a very good PER in the first half against Utah 2011. He had over 200 yards passing in that half. If the rest of the team hadn't kept handing the ball to Utah, we would have won by at least 3 touchdowns.IMHO

If you wanted to take the time, you could compile the statistics and calculate it from the Play by Play at ESPN.



http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=312600252" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Alphaleonis wrote:
Cougarbib --



I know it isn't fashonable on this site to defend Jake Heaps (while it is quite common to continue to read Heaps bashing) - but I couldn't let your comment slide by about Heaps struggling in 2010 "losing games he was supposed to win". Exactly what were those game(S) he lost that he was supposed to win.



Let's see - he lost 4 games as a starter in 2010. He lost to Nevada in his very first college start - a Nevada team that ended up 13-1 and was a bowl winner. Is a true freshman starting in his very first college start supposed to win this? In your dreams buddy.



He lost at Utah State. An up and coming Utah State under Gary Anderson. An angry Utah State that had home field advantage and was seething after years of BYU domination. Jake's second college start. Was he supposed to win this. Perhaps.



He lost at TCU. A TCU team that was perhaps the best team in college football that year. If there had been a four team playoff, TCU would have been in it. And had a shot at a true national championship. Was the true freshman Heaps supposed to win that one? Only in anyones very wildest dreams. I guess since Beck had won there a few years before some were expecting it - however irrationally. But a) Beck was not a true freshman when he did it and b) TCU was not as good the year Beck did it. TCU went 13-0 in 2010.



He lost a very close game at Utah. A Utah team that ended 10-3 and ranked. Was Jake supposed to win this one? (By the way, in Jakes 2 starts against Utah he had the 2 highest PER of any BYU quarterback in the past 6 years - since John Beck. Both of Jake's 2 starts against Utah beat all 3 of Hall's PER and Nelson's too - look it up). Perhaps he should have beat Utah in 2010. Only blue goggles think so, but perhaps he should have.



In very fact, even in 2011 with a totally inept OC guiding the way, Heaps didn't lose any games he was "supposed to win". Doman lost the Texas game - as even those Heaps haters that I am personally acquainted with admitted at the time. And Heaps did not lose the Utah game in 2011. Again, he had a higher PER than any other QB against Utah since Beck. But the entire team imploded in that game, and ruined a good effort by Jake.

Alpha, very well crafted. Dont expect Bib to play by the same rational rules as this. Nor most of the Heaps haters. They can't handle some of these facts. Heaps had his problems of be sure. But he was part of a perfect storm that included a horrible Oline and a rookie OC that was a run-at-heart kind of guy.

Isn't it interesting that it has taken a qb who could care less what fans think or coaches think for that matter, to survive alot of scrutiny but not even equal scrutiny to what Heaps received, including the rejection of his coach and all the Leaders of this team, led by Mr -4.

If we created a suck list, I dare say Riley would equal if not exceed Heaps. Bt he did have two upsides, if you want to call them that--his scrambling ability (cue eye roll) and his leadership (cue double eye roll) or ego centrism--hard to distinguish the two. In fact RN and JH may have had equal selfishness just that one was an alpha dog (worthy of BMs love and admiration) and one was still an immature, non-rm, confused kid.