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What is a FWF?

by Cougy_Monster · 10/23/2012

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Cougy_Monster
I grew up in a house just a couple blocks from then Cougar Stadium and I've been a BYU football fan since I can remember. I faithfully followed the Cougs during the Crowton years and I attend every game I can and/or watch on TV. It would take an extinction-level event to get me to stop following and supporting BYU football. But I am not immune to having my enthusiasm dampened by bad on-field play or seemingly consistently poor coaching and ineffective in-game management.



I don't think this makes me a fair weather fan. FWFs in my opinion are those who started wearing Ute gear when Urban Meyer took the Utes BCS bowling and Crowton was struggling to have a BYU winning season. But those of us who continued to support our Cougs while simultaneously having little-to-no enthusiasm were not FWFs.



I don't think I need to unconditionally support Bronco (as he has alluded to wanting) nor do I need to be ridiculously optimistic in order to avoid being labeled as 'not invested.'



This article from last week has a couple parts that really bother me.



http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsbyusports/55106868-65/byu-nelson-team-fans.html.csp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



The part with Riley being critical of the BYU student pretty much saying at this point he has more enthusiasm about BYU basketball than the rest of the football season really bugs me. If Riley wants to be more supported or viewed as a more exciting sporting entertainment option all he has to do is play better. The ball is in his hands, literally.



Then this quote REALLY gets under my skin because it is CLASSIC Bronco with his inferred disappointment with the fans for not unconditionally supporting him:




Does the coach worry about losing support from the fans if the losses pile up?



"Yeah, I have learned my support is conditional. The bigger picture is that in order to continue to perform and be on the national stage, I am not satisfied with being in the top 25. I want to be more than that. So yeah there's risk. However, what if you win those games? And what if the support grows? So, I guess you can look at it either way."


Was Bronco really so naive upon taking this HC job that he thought he'd have unconditional support? Come on. What job, besides a tenured professorship, requires absolutely zero effort or results in order to maintain employment or support of your boss or clients? We fans are the clients here and we have every right to pull support or let our enthusiasm wane when results are below expectations -- and Bronco's thin-skin attitude of deriding critical fans is in my opinion his least likable trait and seeing it carry over (inevitably) into player attitudes is nauseating.



If you want to be liked in the world of sports and if you want to be the most exciting show in town then you just have to play in a way that creates the enthusiasm you want. Is simple.



This reminds me of Obama saying how he will punish United States' companies for going overseas rather than addressing the real problem and making the U.S. the best place to do business so companies WANT to stay. If you want people to behave a certain way you need to earn that behavior.
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Cougs_Rule
I can hardly tell what he's talking about. Coach/Double speak.

But I can tell Him one thing, if he wants to stay on the national stage, he better change a few things.
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tww
Of the number of adjustments that need to be made, a good PR consultant is a must if he hopes to endear fans. You can't put enmity between you and your fans and then expect them to give you a break when things go wrong. I am surprised that he doesn't realize that he is the one creating the harsh environment with the fans and it has less to do with wins and losses than it does with just plain relationship and likability on a public relations level.



This wreaks of insecurity which is not a good foundation on which to build a program or young men.



I feel for the guy because the pressure has to be intense but as with any career, either you thrive in it or you don't. If you don't then you either need to make personal changes or change careers. He just seems so distracted by peripheral stuff and seems to expect fans to appreciate what he is doing even if it doesn't have anything to do with the goal as understood by the fans. If he has some other goal he needs to sell it to the fans because no one else understands what he is doing or why.



Whatever he is trying to prove, it seems it has less to do with football and more with something else.
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northerncougar
My marriage is conditional upon me keeping my covenants. My job is conditional upon me doing what I am paid to do. My membership in my church is conditional upon me doing what I agreed to when I joined, and avoiding things that would affect that. The love of my children is based on me treating them with love and kindness. If I abuse my children I lose the right and privilege of having my children love and respect me.



EVERYTHING IS CONDITIONAL IN THIS WORLD! Sometimes the guy sounds like a child. It's amazing to me that he keeps saying so many stupid things. If those things are conditional and infinitely more important than supporting a team, then absolutely support for a football team is conditional. Good grief. :sick:



As far as fair-weather fans: Who cares what anyone thinks. I choose to support my team at the level that I want to support. If I want to support a team who never wins a game or lower my support for a team that under performs, I'll do that and I couldn't care less if anyone else likes it.



My time and money are limited resources. Unless someone else is providing them for me, I choose how to use them.
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Cougs_Rule
Guys. I think Bronco is doing an average job at communicating with fans, but that is nothing new. H could be in meltdown mode saying what he really thinks of the fans. In fact it's better than saying the fans "are not educated." So he has improved.

But to liken it to marriage and religion is a bit much, even for me. bronco is doing "what he agreed." That charge you make is just over the top. I don't expect him to coddle fans. AND yes, with losses piling up he does face a tougher fan base and media scrutiny.

But to blame him for poor fan relations makes you as the accuser as guilty or more than Bronco.

As for "changes"--just win games. Not all of them, but the ones you can.

And, as the saying goes, "if 100 people call you an Ass, you might want to buy a saddle." What that saddle is in this case, is Wins--or atleast a new horse (qb). I can afford him a lot of flat, boring, coach speak given how solid most of the program is as a whole.



One caveat. The positive Riley-speak is going to get old for even the very positive fans. It is becoming almost as obvious as it was for Heaps. If the trend continues, pure objective stats are going to match. They have to be close currently.
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northerncougar
dmcougar wrote:
Guys. I think Bronco is doing an average job at communicating with fans, but that is nothing new. H could be in meltdown mode saying what he really thinks of the fans. In fact it's better than saying the fans "are not educated." So he has improved.

But to liken it to marriage and religion is a bit much, even for me. bronco is doing "what he agreed." That charge you make is just over the top. I don't expect him to coddle fans. AND yes, with losses piling up he does face a tougher fan base and media scrutiny.

But to blame him for poor fan relations makes you as the accuser as guilty or more than Bronco.

As for "changes"--just win games. Not all of them, but the ones you can.

And, as the saying goes, "if 100 people call you an Ass, you might want to buy a saddle." What that saddle is in this case, is Wins--or atleast a new horse (qb). I can afford him a lot of flat, boring, coach speak given how solid most of the program is as a whole.



One caveat. The positive Riley-speak is going to get old for even the very positive fans. It is becoming almost as obvious as it was for Heaps. If the trend continues, pure objective stats are going to match. They have to be close currently.


I agree with what you are saying. I intentionally was way over the top to make the point.



I don't care if Bronco likes me or hates my guts. I just want him to shut up about the "conditional" support and win games. I don't want Bronco to know how I feel, that is why I post on this forum. I use this to blow off steam about how frustrating it has been lately to cheer for this team. There are many people much more influential than I am, that are letting him know what the problems are.



His whining over the past 8 years has grown very wearisome.
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SpiffCoug
Does Bronco honestly think his job isn't to win games? Because if his job is NOT to win games, then BYU needs to make an announcement that winning games is secondary to everything else the program does.



And if that is the case, I'd like to know as a fan, because that will affect how much I invest (time, money, etc.) in the program. I follow the program for what takes place on the field. If the emphasis is on what takes place off of it - where I'm not allowed, then I need to adjust my level of fan-ness.
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northerncougar
SpiffCoug wrote:
Does Bronco honestly think his job isn't to win games? Because if his job is NOT to win games, then BYU needs to make an announcement that winning games is secondary to everything else the program does.



And if that is the case, I'd like to know as a fan, because that will affect how much I invest (time, money, etc.) in the program. I follow the program for what takes place on the field. If the emphasis is on what takes place off of it - where I'm not allowed, then I need to adjust my level of fan-ness.


I believe he does know that is his job, but he doesn't know how to do it beyond the defensive side of the ball.



I also believe that the administration and BOT know that if BYU doesn't win, people will stop coming.
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byufan4ever
All I know is that for me, BYU's basketball season does not begin until after BYU's bowl game. And I like basketball a lot.



How did we not sell out our season opener? Some "fans" (not ones who post here) gave up on the season before it started. Those are FWF. I don't live in Utah, but if I did, I'd like to believe that I'd be at every single home regardless of who the starting QB is...
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Gunk
Few thoughts.



First, I think it's safe to assume none on this board are FWF, despite what we may label each other. Being disappointed with the product on the field and expressing that disappoint doesn't make one a fair weather fan. I'm long time Oakland A's fan. Believe me, I know all about FWFs and disappointing teams.



Second, players and coaches that criticize fans on any level are dumb and aren't doing themselves any favors. The whole sport exists because of fans. And when times are tough are when a coach/player needs the fans the most. It's one thing to perform badly, it's another to turn around and criticize your fans. Fans don't like it and they soon won't be a fan of the coach anymore. Last thing I want to hear after another poor performance is Riley or Bronco complaining about the fans. Really?



Third, as a PR professional I can tell you Bronco needs some serious help. He's digging himself into a hole. He should be thanking the fans for their support every game. Nothing but love for the fans should be coming out of his mouth. If a reporter asks, "What do you think about fans that boo you?" Bronco should reply, "I love our fans and the energy and passion they bring to the game. I'm glad they care. I think we have the best fans in the world." He shouldn't reminisce about that one time he was booed and how some fans are better than others or hint about how he knows more about the game than the fans so they should just calm down.



Lastly, Bronco's job is to win games, but his bosses aren't so much concerned about that as they are about developing young men and using BYU football as a vehicle to spread the gospel. Winning certainly helps, but winning isn't the end all and be all for BYU football. That's why to pay our coaches competitive salaries we're dependent on wealthy donors.
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Mars


I'm going to stop supporting Bronco if he doesn't quit whining about how "Conditional" the fans are.



TIC
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mjk5
tww wrote:
Of the number of adjustments that need to be made, a good PR consultant is a must if he hopes to endear fans. You can't put enmity between you and your fans and then expect them to give you a break when things go wrong. I am surprised that he doesn't realize that he is the one creating the harsh environment with the fans and it has less to do with wins and losses than it does with just plain relationship and likability on a public relations level.


Saban dislikes his fans and they know it. Alabama faculty got an email asking us not to approach him or talk to him if we saw him on campus. His barber says that Saban won't say a word to him and wants nobody to speak to him. He doesn't like talking to the media either.



But he wins, so EVERYBODY in Tuscaloosa and and Tide fans everywhere LOVE him. No PR consultant necessary.
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IowaCougar
Man what a bunch of whiners!! Bronco wasn't "whining" about support being conditional. He was making a statement that support was conditional. There's a big difference. In other words - he was agreeing with the fans that the support is conditional. (And he certainly didn't "infer" anything with his statement, although you may have thought he "implied" something ;) )



Are people on this board FWF? Maybe not, but they are FWW (foul-weather whiners). Some of you really do seem happier if you can say "I told you so" than if the Cougars win. Please - go take a coaching job somewhere so you can be the recipient of the fans' wrath. It might give you a sense of perspective.
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Cougy_Monster
IowaCougar wrote:
Man what a bunch of whiners!! Bronco wasn't "whining" about support being conditional. He was making a statement that support was conditional. There's a big difference. In other words - he was agreeing with the fans that the support is conditional. (And he certainly didn't "infer" anything with his statement, although you may have thought he "implied" something ;) )



Are people on this board FWF? Maybe not, but they are FWW (foul-weather whiners). Some of you really do seem happier if you can say "I told you so" than if the Cougars win. Please - go take a coaching job somewhere so you can be the recipient of the fans' wrath. It might give you a sense of perspective.


Bronco said that he LEARNED that support is conditional, meaning he is INFERRING that when he started the job he thought he would have unconditional fan support. Any HC knows you have to win in order to garner support. We can like Bronco and think he's a great guy and still want better production out of him on the field. If that is whining to you then so be it.



What makes you think anyone would be happier being able to say "I told you so" rather than seeing a Cougar victory? I think you are missing the point. Many of us are disappointed because THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH VICTORIES. Nothing would make me happier than for Bronco to coach the Cougars to an undefeated season. That's what I want. That's what any fan wants. I understand that rarely happens, and I support the team and coaches as long as they play good football up to their potential. Right now I feel like the team is playing under its potential. Having 4 losses isn't necessarily what bothers me -- its the way we have lost. Its the clock management at the end of the game. Its the personnel decisions. Its the game-planning and lack of half-time adjustments.



Please, try to refrain from the stale argument that I or we should try coaching. That logic suggests that nobody can criticize anyone outside of his own profession. So if you hire someone to work on your car and they do a crappy job you must accept the outcome unconditionally.....or maybe become a mechanic. But, placing your support of the mechanic on the condition that you approve of the outcome is unacceptable to you since we apparently lack perspective.



Lastly, PLEASE don't make yourself look ignorant. NOBODY likes it when someone trolls online forums correcting grammar or spelling. But even worse than that is someone INCORRECTLY trying to correct someone else. The word "infer" has a couple different meanings and uses, one of which is to speculate or arrive at a conclusion, which is the definition with which you are apparently familiar. However, infer can also be used as a synonym of "hint" or "suggest" or....wait for it....."imply." Yes, my friend, the word infer can be used in both situations and your feeble attempt to correct me just made you look over-the-top pompous and ignorant at the same time.
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Mars
Cougy_Monster wrote:
NOBODY likes it when someone trolls online forums correcting grammar or spelling.

I like it.
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Schmoe
Mars wrote:
NOBODY likes it when someone trolls online forums correcting grammar or spelling.

I like it.


Just learn the difference between "imply" and "infer" and you won't have to worry about it. ;)
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mtnradio
Wow ... here is a tempest in a teapot! (Go ahead and infer what you want from that ... I'm not implying anything about the Word of Wisdom ...)



Every coach learns a lot of things. And as a public figure, coaches make lots of statements. As one public figure recently noted ... they words don't always come out they way they are supposed to. Would you have felt better if he said, "I know my support is conditioned on me producing a quality-winning program"? Does that mean something different than, "I learned my support is conditioned on me producing a quality-winning program"? Yes, we can infer that the later implies that the knowledge is more recent while the former leaves us in doubt as to when the knowledge was obtained. So what does "recent" mean?



Guys, quit nit-picking here. Bronco has offended many fans with some statements that aren't warm and fuzzy. But that doesn't mean we should pick his every statement apart or read his every statement through the lenses of our perceived insult (I would have said "offense" but the double entendre was too much).



Relax. Bronco feels the heat right now. Let's see how he responds and not attack every word ....
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mtnradio
oooops! I posted that twice .... :lol:
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