I agree with Riley to many fickle BYU fans....

Iam so sick of all the fickle BYU fans to makes me sick..fire dolman fire Bronco are you kidding me. I had season tix for along time until I had to move again..The people that sat around me made me sick always complaining and start heaps no wait start Riley no wait start lark no wait fire Bronoc no wait fire dolman. The offense is limited because Riley can't throw the ball down field...You have to work with what you got and I was so proud of our guys yesterday and so should every REAL BYU fan...I love basketball and football and no the football season ends when the last tick rolls off the bowl game clock...

Good for you. Your prerogative to agree.



However, fickle implies frequent changing or flip flopping; and or committing for short terms to a certain thing.



Riley's body of work has NOT changed; it remains substandard verses most teams but the worst of teams. HS body of work has been built over three years and remains--especially as a Sr qb, considerably lacking.



As for my fickleness, I have been skeptical for three years and more and more convinced that Riley is not the answer up until and including this season. I have been consistent in my criticism of him. I have not turned my back on this team AND for him to imply that in the face of his poor performance is typical of someone tucking, ducking and running from his record.

Riley you wanted all the glory?? Well go ahead and take the bad with the good.

We are not fickle, we have been expecting you to play like a Sr qb AND YOU HAVE NOT!

I suggest Riley look at this chart and get back to us



http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=9445472" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



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BYUBALLIN wrote:
Iam so sick of all the fickle BYU fans to makes me sick..fire dolman fire Bronco are you kidding me. I had season tix for along time until I had to move again..The people that sat around me made me sick always complaining and start heaps no wait start Riley no wait start lark no wait fire Bronoc no wait fire dolman. The offense is limited because Riley can't throw the ball down field...You have to work with what you got and I was so proud of our guys yesterday and so should every REAL BYU fan...I love basketball and football and no the football season ends when the last tick rolls off the bowl game clock...

Congratulations. It takes a special fan to be satisfied with consistently underachieving year in and year out by and putting a team out on the field that consistently performs at a high level of mediocrity. It's absolutely fine to be satisfied with what we have, but don't come here bagging on others' who feel like we can and should be doing much better.

Max Hall: "I hate Utah. I hate everything about Utah."



Riley Nelson: "I hate fickle BYU fans."



Hmmm......

Even if everything had played out just as it has, and Riley had at least in some way owned up to his inadequacies this year, I think he would have been remembered as a good guy, gritty, but average/place holder BYU QB. Since he has not and is now going after fans, I think he will be remembered as a selfish, poor QB who left a black cloud on our program.

cougman wrote:

Iam so sick of all the fickle BYU fans to makes me sick..fire dolman fire Bronco are you kidding me. I had season tix for along time until I had to move again..The people that sat around me made me sick always complaining and start heaps no wait start Riley no wait start lark no wait fire Bronoc no wait fire dolman. The offense is limited because Riley can't throw the ball down field...You have to work with what you got and I was so proud of our guys yesterday and so should every REAL BYU fan...I love basketball and football and no the football season ends when the last tick rolls off the bowl game clock...

Congratulations. It takes a special fan to be satisfied with consistently underachieving year in and year out by and putting a team out on the field that consistently performs at a high level of mediocrity. It's absolutely fine to be satisfied with what we have, but don't come here bagging on others' who feel like we can and should be doing much better.

Well, someone here has to be fully invested in the quest for imperfection--might as well be him.

At what point did Riley ever blame the fans? His statement came from what was in the student newspaper...about football being over let's move on to hoops...Win or lose I always show up good captain always stay with his ship even when it starts to sink...it's called loyalty.

Riley's comments weren't as bad as the ones Collie made towards fans.



That said, fans, especially BYU fans, expect a certain degree of performance. Riley may be annoyed or frustrated with "fickle" fans but I can assure him we're just as annoyed with fickle coaches and inadequate QBs.



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cougman wrote:

Iam so sick of all the fickle BYU fans to makes me sick..fire dolman fire Bronco are you kidding me. I had season tix for along time until I had to move again..The people that sat around me made me sick always complaining and start heaps no wait start Riley no wait start lark no wait fire Bronoc no wait fire dolman. The offense is limited because Riley can't throw the ball down field...You have to work with what you got and I was so proud of our guys yesterday and so should every REAL BYU fan...I love basketball and football and no the football season ends when the last tick rolls off the bowl game clock...

Congratulations. It takes a special fan to be satisfied with consistently underachieving year in and year out by and putting a team out on the field that consistently performs at a high level of mediocrity. It's absolutely fine to be satisfied with what we have, but don't come here bagging on others' who feel like we can and should be doing much better.

:lol: :lol:

The fact is this program is knocking on the door of something great...If you take offense to what Riley said your prob the fans he was talking about.

BYUBALLIN wrote:
The fact is this program is knocking on the door of something great...If you take offense to what Riley said your prob the fans he was talking about.

Our current fan base is offended by Riley's very existance. They are offended that he transferred from USU and that he hasn't succomed to an injury yet. Riley Nelson is the most hated BYU QB in the history of modern BYU football and that is saying something. I remember the vitriol that was leveled at John Walsh especially after he lost to USU 58-56 (as if the defense didn't have something to do with that). I wouldn't waste time trying to defend him, it isn't worth it.

WOW for the 80000000000000 times Iam not defending Riley Iam not defending Riley wait Iam not defending Riley. My point being what he said is correct BYU has fickle fans period...end of story and the fact he not the only BYU player to say that.

BYUBALLIN wrote:
WOW for the 80000000000000 times Iam not defending Riley Iam not defending Riley wait Iam not defending Riley. My point being what he said is correct BYU has fickle fans period...end of story and the fact he not the only BYU player to say that.

Of course BYU has some fickle fans. Every team has.



But I think you and Riley take this too far to include very devoted fans who are simply not enthusiastic about Riley's QB abilities or the coaching in general. That does NOT make a fan fickle.



Riley is a bad QB. Really bad. And the arm strength excuse is old and flimsy. Detmer had a weak arm, probably less range than Riley. But he was a freakingawesomequarterback.

BYU fans want production plain and simple. It's not a hard forumla to understand.



Last year, BYU fans loved him, and chanted his name. Why? Because he produced. This year he's not doing that.



Since 1956, 43 QBs have attempted as many passes as Riley this year. If you don't want fans to turn on you, don't have the 38th best PER on that list. Don't be one of the worst QBs in a season since your grandparents were going to college.

I would be very interested in the five behind him and the five above him. But something feels me that is somewhere between very unflattering to incendiary.

But who are they? 38th is slightly better than I would have thought, given his -4 PER. And I presume you are averaging total numbers and not just game by game numbers. Maybe that wouldn't matter.

38th out of 43 is pretty bad.



The five ahead of Riley:

2004 John Beck 128.51

1965 Virgil Carter 124.11

1966 Virgil Carter 123.41

1987 Bob Jensen 116.98

2010 Jake Heaps 116.20



2012 Riley Nelson 114.91



The five below him:

2000 Charlie Peterson 113.32

2003 Matt Berry 112.12

2011 Jake Heaps 111.05

2002 Bret Engemann 109.24

1978 Marc Wilson 106.14



It's also interesting to note how many of those QBs have been in the recent past. Think about it, 43 QBs since 1956 have thrown this much and seven of the bottom 11 QBs on that list have played in the last 12 years.



Remember, you can't just take the average of PER. You have to take the totals (attempts, yards, TDs, etc.) of each game and plug that into the PER formula. So a QB who has a PER in four games of 75, 100, 125, and 150 won't have an average PER of 112.50. Their PER could be much higher or lower.



For instance, if you average Riley's PERs you get a PER of 101.74 and not his PER of 114.91.

"seven of the bottom 11 quarterbacks have played in the past 12 years"



When I read this, my first thought was "I wonder when Roger French retired" so I looked it up. He retired twelve years ago.

Alphaleonis wrote:
"seven of the bottom 11 quarterbacks have played in the past 12 years"



When I read this, my first thought was "I wonder when Roger French retired" so I looked it up. He retired twelve years ago.

Like I said in an earlier thread; "Is Jeff Grimes available?" It was shortly after he left that Dlines from TCU and utah started blowing up our play calling.

SpiffCoug wrote:
38th out of 43 is pretty bad.



The five ahead of Riley:

2004 John Beck 128.51

1965 Virgil Carter 124.11

1966 Virgil Carter 123.41

1987 Bob Jensen 116.98

2010 Jake Heaps 116.20



2012 Riley Nelson 114.91



The five below him:

2000 Charlie Peterson 113.32

2003 Matt Berry 112.12

2011 Jake Heaps 111.05

2002 Bret Engemann 109.24

1978 Marc Wilson 106.14



It's also interesting to note how many of those QBs have been in the recent past. Think about it, 43 QBs since 1956 have thrown this much and seven of the bottom 11 QBs on that list have played in the last 12 years.



Remember, you can't just take the average of PER. You have to take the totals (attempts, yards, TDs, etc.) of each game and plug that into the PER formula. So a QB who has a PER in four games of 75, 100, 125, and 150 won't have an average PER of 112.50. Their PER could be much higher or lower.



For instance, if you average Riley's PERs you get a PER of 101.74 and not his PER of 114.91.

I'd like to see this whole list. This is an interesting ranking order. Do you have Riley's PER for the second half of the 2011 season?