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Blown Opportunity

by Cougest · 10/18/2012

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Cougest
I moved to South Carolina, where I am currently located, for Graduate school. This year I have gone out to eat with my family, on multiple occasions, and seen all the TV's at the bar playing BYU football on ESPN. Yesterday, I went into a UPS store to make some copies and send off a fax. While I was there I struck up a conversation with a 22 year old Ohio native who just so happens to be a huge Buckeyes fan. We talked about how he rubs into all the SC Gamecock fans that OSU has national championships and now that USC lost to LSU last week they'll never get one. I told him that my team was BYU and he talked to me about our sick defense and how quick T. Hill is and our offensive mishaps. After I left the store I couldn't help but to think how bad BYU has been blowing their unique coverage experience through ESPN. We play on ESPN and on days/times when there are no other times and so people all across the nation are watching us play. Wouldn't it have been something to have the BYU offense of old and all this coverage? Wouldn't it have been something to even have the offense that we experienced under Anae? Don't you think that we would be starting to get ND type respect nationally if we at least showed up for big games? What a disappointment these last two years have been.
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BoiseBYU
Haha I thought this was going to be another Jake Heaps thread....
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Cougarbib
Cougest wrote:
I moved to South Carolina, where I am currently located, for Graduate school. This year I have gone out to eat with my family, on multiple occasions, and seen all the TV's at the bar playing BYU football on ESPN. Yesterday, I went into a UPS store to make some copies and send off a fax. While I was there I struck up a conversation with a 22 year old Ohio native who just so happens to be a huge Buckeyes fan. We talked about how he rubs into all the SC Gamecock fans that OSU has national championships and now that USC lost to LSU last week they'll never get one. I told him that my team was BYU and he talked to me about our sick defense and how quick T. Hill is and our offensive mishaps. After I left the store I couldn't help but to think how bad BYU has been blowing their unique coverage experience through ESPN. We play on ESPN and on days/times when there are no other times and so people all across the nation are watching us play. Wouldn't it have been something to have the BYU offense of old and all this coverage? Wouldn't it have been something to even have the offense that we experienced under Anae? Don't you think that we would be starting to get ND type respect nationally if we at least showed up for big games? What a disappointment these last two years have been.


As long as we did not have the old BYU defense and lose to Utah 34-31 instead of whatever it was and lose to BSU 38-37. The OSU game was actually about how things went in the glory years any time we played a PAC 10 or Big 10 or Big 12 opponent - let alone a Top 10 one.



Those of us that we're actually alive back then remember starting the Multi-year winning streak that included the 1984 NC including an upset of UCLA - but ending with a UCLA loss followed by about 3 more UCLA losses. We remember losing to Okie Stat two years in a row in Bowl games, at least two Bowl losses to Ohio State teams. None of these in top 10. Losses to Indiana, Navy, etc. in Bowl Games. We were 11-0 under Wilson before losing to one of those or Washington State.



BYU only played this kind of schedule in Detmer's Senior year with 8 wins. Detmer lost 5 in a row starting the day he won the Heisman.



1984 was solid cupcakes - we were in the WAC for Heaven's sake. Narrow wins over Wyoming and Hawaii and others like that. 6-6 Michigan.



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Cougest
Yes, but we at least were able to win big games. We were able to get bowl games against Ohio State. We were able to score 37 points against BSU. We were able to score 31 points against Utah. We were actually able to beat Utah and never lost three years in a row. You tell me, would you rather see a 31-34 game or a 6-7 and 6-3 point games? Lavell was 21-21 against top 25 teams. Bronco is is 4-18.
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Cougarbib
Cougest wrote:
Yes, but we at least were able to win big games. We were able to get bowl games against Ohio State. We were able to score 37 points against BSU. We were able to score 31 points against Utah. We were actually able to beat Utah and never lost three years in a row. You tell me, would you rather see a 31-34 game or a 6-7 and 6-3 point games? Lavell was 21-21 against top 25 teams. Bronco is is 4-18.


BTW - BYU has lost 4 in a row to Utah in my years of following the team and rarely beat Utah before LaVell Edwards.



Like BYU, WAC and MWC teams are often over rated in rankings due to many wins over cupcakes.



So outside of conference



Yes, BYU got Bowl Games vs 6-5 Michigan and won, 8-3 Ohio State and got killed, Penn State and lost, Ohio State again and lost a very low scoring game, UCLA and lost multiple before Bronco beat UCLA, SMU and won a squeaker with a Hail Mary, Missouri and won a squeaker in a low scoring game, Marshall - lost, Bowling Green or someone like that - list, Okie State - lost two, Navy, Indiana, and Washington State - lost 2 of those, K State - good win in a close game - who am I leaving out before Bronco started winning bowl games vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Tulsa, and yes a mediocre UTEP team.



Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.



Sure - if we had a Jim Mac offense and this year's defense and another years kicker, and Vai returning punts - then we might only have 1 loss right now with a 2nd one coming Saturday.



And if we had Urban Meyer as Head Coach as well - maybe we split OSU / ND.



Miami



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1967cougar
Good points, Bib. I was alive for all of that but my take on the bowl losses is a bit different. WAC cupcakes - for sure. They never could compete. But why all the bowl losses? I always thought that it was due to the uniqueness of our offense. Back then,we were the ONLY wide open pass offense in the nation. We recruited OL-men who could pass block. got some good ones, too. Why? Because no one else wanted them. They went after OL-men who could run block. Other teams recruited and build defensive schemes around running offenses. So when we show up with a passing offense, well, one week was not enough time to prep for us. However, when the bowls came around and good teams had four weeks to get ready for us, we got toasted.



Cougest - I hope you love SC. I lived there for years - down in Beaufort. Great country, good people. BBQ, shrimp, hush puppies - I drool over the food they have. I married a Carolina girl and we go back every five years or so to visit her family. I look forward to every moment of it. Plus, you get ACC basketball. Undoubtedly the best in the nation!
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Mingjai
Cougarbib wrote:
So outside of conference



Yes, BYU got Bowl Games vs 6-5 Michigan and won, 8-3 Ohio State and got killed, Penn State and lost, Ohio State again and lost a very low scoring game, UCLA and lost multiple before Bronco beat UCLA, SMU and won a squeaker with a Hail Mary, Missouri and won a squeaker in a low scoring game, Marshall - lost, Bowling Green or someone like that - list, Okie State - lost two, Navy, Indiana, and Washington State - lost 2 of those, K State - good win in a close game - who am I leaving out before Bronco started winning bowl games vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Tulsa, and yes a mediocre UTEP team.


Bowls: off the top of my head, you're missing a comeback win against a CU team on the brink of greatness, a tie with top 10 Iowa, a close loss against a top 10ish Ohio State (BYU was .500 that year), top 10 Tulane (Marshall--you mentioned--was also top 10) and not-so-good losses to Virginia and Kansas. BYU beat Wazzu in the bowl. Of course, Coach Edwards's regime never seemed place heavy emphasis on bowl results.


Cougarbib wrote:
Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.


Everyone knows BYU has only be 3 teams that finished in the top 10: Oregon State (#7 in 1967), Air Force (#8 in 1985) and Miami (#3 in 1990).



I really don't think this schedule is as tough as it seemed going into the year. Only Oregon State is better than expected, and I think they'll be a ranked 17-20 by the end of the year. I expected Notre Dame to be pretty good this year and they are.



I think several of BYU's previous teams would have had a shot to be undefeated on this schedule. Acknowledging how hard it is to be undefeated halfway into a season, I would think the with a bit of luck, 1980-81, 1983-85, 1990-91, 1996, 2006, and 2008 teams would have decent chances to be undefeated on this schedule.
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Cougest
Cougarbib wrote:
Yes, but we at least were able to win big games. We were able to get bowl games against Ohio State. We were able to score 37 points against BSU. We were able to score 31 points against Utah. We were actually able to beat Utah and never lost three years in a row. You tell me, would you rather see a 31-34 game or a 6-7 and 6-3 point games? Lavell was 21-21 against top 25 teams. Bronco is is 4-18.


BTW - BYU has lost 4 in a row to Utah in my years of following the team and rarely beat Utah before LaVell Edwards.



LIke I said, Lavell years or even Anea. When has BYU ever lost 4 in a row with those two? Not to mention, this years Utah team is probably the weakest it's been in years. If there was ever a year to beat them, especially on national TV, this was the year. Also, BYU had never lost to Utah at home (on national TV) with Lavell or Anae like they did last year?



Like BYU, WAC and MWC teams are often over rated in rankings due to many wins over cupcakes.

Agreed. However, this year's Utah and BSU could also be considered cupcakes and look how we fared.

So outside of conference



Yes, BYU got Bowl Games vs 6-5 Michigan and won, 8-3 Ohio State and got killed, Penn State and lost, Ohio State again and lost a very low scoring game, UCLA and lost multiple before Bronco beat UCLA, SMU and won a squeaker with a Hail Mary, Missouri and won a squeaker in a low scoring game, Marshall - lost, Bowling Green or someone like that - list, Okie State - lost two, Navy, Indiana, and Washington State - lost 2 of those, K State - good win in a close game - who am I leaving out before Bronco started winning bowl games vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Tulsa, and yes a mediocre UTEP team.



Dude what are you smoking. Yes BYU lost some good bowl games but they at least SHOWED UP and they had some solid Bowl wins too. #19th ranked SMU was a solid victory and so was the next year vs a #18th ranked WSU. Beat Missouri, and Michigan, a # 20th ranked colorado, tied a #7th ranked Iowa, the last two loses against a #17th and #10th ranked OSU was by three points and a TD. Not to mention solid wins over oklahoma, a #14th ranked Kansas state......and a #16 Oregan state with Anae.



Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.

If there was ever a year to beat texas under brown it would have been last year. Yes, we had an ok showing but there is no way, with a decent offense, we should have lost that game. We were very fortunate to even beat one of the worst teams in the nation last year in Ol Miss. Still wasn't a good showing and very very boring game to watch.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Yes Miami, Oki-a Anae team and we were beating them even before bradford was knocked out of the game, Air force in 1985 and we tied a #7 Iowa. Call me crazy, but I don't believe Oregan State or ND will remain top ten this season. I guess we'll see.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.



Now this really makes me laugh. There is no way even a sophomore lead max hall team would have lost to BSU or U of U this year. BSU/UU are not powerhouses this year my friend. There is no way we have a squeaker against USU. We were tied going into the 4th quarter against OSU and should have had the lead if it wasn't for a red zone INT by Sr Riley. The only reason we even had a shot at winning/tying BSU/UU is because of how stout our defense has been. I'm sorry but I very highly disagree with this. For the sake of an argument you list this but I have a really hard time believing you believe this to be true. Although, I will say, even with one of the good coached teams of old, we loose to ND



Sure - if we had a Jim Mac offense and this year's defense and another years kicker, and Vai returning punts - then we might only have 1 loss right now with a 2nd one coming Saturday.



Ha ha...sorry still laughing. I agree with ND though.



And if we had Urban Meyer as Head Coach as well - maybe we split OSU / ND.



Miami



All in all, can you tell me you've been happy these last two years? Can you tell me we have played BYU football these last two years? Can you tell me that you thought we have shown up to big games these last two years? Can you tell me you've been happy with our play vs Utah these last two years? Can you tell me that we've played to our ability and potential these last two years? Can you tell me that we couldn't have shown better on national TV that what we have these last two years? I seriously doubt that grandpa!



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Cougest
1967cougar wrote:
- I hope you love SC. I lived there for years - down in Beaufort. Great country, good people. BBQ, shrimp, hush puppies - I drool over the food they have. I married a Carolina girl and we go back every five years or so to visit her family. I look forward to every moment of it. Plus, you get ACC basketball. Undoubtedly the best in the nation!


I do man. My family and I are really enjoying the change, scenery, history, beaches, and food. I'm in Columbia so Beaufort is close by.
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Cougest
Cougarbib wrote:
I really don't think this schedule is as tough as it seemed going into the year. Only Oregon State is better than expected, and I think they'll be a ranked 17-20 by the end of the year. I expected Notre Dame to be pretty good this year and they are.



I think several of BYU's previous teams would have had a shot to be undefeated on this schedule. Acknowledging how hard it is to be undefeated halfway into a season, I would think the with a bit of luck, 1980-81, 1983-85, 1990-91, 1996, 2006, and 2008 teams would have decent chances to be undefeated on this schedule.


Exactly!
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Cougs_Rule
Cougest wrote:
Cougest wrote:
Yes, but we at least were able to win big games. We were able to get bowl games against Ohio State. We were able to score 37 points against BSU. We were able to score 31 points against Utah. We were actually able to beat Utah and never lost three years in a row. You tell me, would you rather see a 31-34 game or a 6-7 and 6-3 point games? Lavell was 21-21 against top 25 teams. Bronco is is 4-18.


BTW - BYU has lost 4 in a row to Utah in my years of following the team and rarely beat Utah before LaVell Edwards.



LIke I said, Lavell years or even Anea. When has BYU ever lost 4 in a row with those two? Not to mention, this years Utah team is probably the weakest it's been in years. If there was ever a year to beat them, especially on national TV, this was the year. Also, BYU had never lost to Utah at home (on national TV) with Lavell or Anae like they did last year?



Like BYU, WAC and MWC teams are often over rated in rankings due to many wins over cupcakes.

Agreed. However, this year's Utah and BSU could also be considered cupcakes and look how we fared.

So outside of conference



Yes, BYU got Bowl Games vs 6-5 Michigan and won, 8-3 Ohio State and got killed, Penn State and lost, Ohio State again and lost a very low scoring game, UCLA and lost multiple before Bronco beat UCLA, SMU and won a squeaker with a Hail Mary, Missouri and won a squeaker in a low scoring game, Marshall - lost, Bowling Green or someone like that - list, Okie State - lost two, Navy, Indiana, and Washington State - lost 2 of those, K State - good win in a close game - who am I leaving out before Bronco started winning bowl games vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Tulsa, and yes a mediocre UTEP team.



Dude what are you smoking. Yes BYU lost some good bowl games but they at least SHOWED UP and they had some solid Bowl wins too. #19th ranked SMU was a solid victory and so was the next year vs a #18th ranked WSU. Beat Missouri, and Michigan, a # 20th ranked colorado, tied a #7th ranked Iowa, the last two loses against a #17th and #10th ranked OSU was by three points and a TD. Not to mention solid wins over oklahoma, a #14th ranked Kansas state......and a #16 Oregan state with Anae.



Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.

If there was ever a year to beat texas under brown it would have been last year. Yes, we had an ok showing but there is no way, with a decent offense, we should have lost that game. We were very fortunate to even beat one of the worst teams in the nation last year in Ol Miss. Still wasn't a good showing and very very boring game to watch.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Yes Miami, Oki-a Anae team and we were beating them even before bradford was knocked out of the game, Air force in 1985 and we tied a #7 Iowa. Call me crazy, but I don't believe Oregan State or ND will remain top ten this season. I guess we'll see.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.



Now this really makes me laugh. There is no way even a sophomore lead max hall team would have lost to BSU or U of U this year. BSU/UU are not powerhouses this year my friend. There is no way we have a squeaker against USU. We were tied going into the 4th quarter against OSU and should have had the lead if it wasn't for a red zone INT by Sr Riley. The only reason we even had a shot at winning/tying BSU/UU is because of how stout our defense has been. I'm sorry but I very highly disagree with this. For the sake of an argument you list this but I have a really hard time believing you believe this to be true. Although, I will say, even with one of the good coached teams of old, we loose to ND



Sure - if we had a Jim Mac offense and this year's defense and another years kicker, and Vai returning punts - then we might only have 1 loss right now with a 2nd one coming Saturday.



Ha ha...sorry still laughing. I agree with ND though.



And if we had Urban Meyer as Head Coach as well - maybe we split OSU / ND.



Miami



All in all, can you tell me you've been happy these last two years? Can you tell me we have played BYU football these last two years? Can you tell me that you thought we have shown up to big games these last two years? Can you tell me you've been happy with our play vs Utah these last two years? Can you tell me that we've played to our ability and potential these last two years? Can you tell me that we couldn't have shown better on national TV that what we have these last two years? I seriously doubt that grandpa!



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Amen Cougest, Amen.

Except, you are underestimating his love and approval of Riley last yea and his excuse making this year.
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Cougarbib
Mingjai wrote:
So outside of conference



Yes, BYU got Bowl Games vs 6-5 Michigan and won, 8-3 Ohio State and got killed, Penn State and lost, Ohio State again and lost a very low scoring game, UCLA and lost multiple before Bronco beat UCLA, SMU and won a squeaker with a Hail Mary, Missouri and won a squeaker in a low scoring game, Marshall - lost, Bowling Green or someone like that - list, Okie State - lost two, Navy, Indiana, and Washington State - lost 2 of those, K State - good win in a close game - who am I leaving out before Bronco started winning bowl games vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Tulsa, and yes a mediocre UTEP team.


Bowls: off the top of my head, you're missing a comeback win against a CU team on the brink of greatness, a tie with top 10 Iowa, a close loss against a top 10ish Ohio State (BYU was .500 that year), top 10 Tulane (Marshall--you mentioned--was also top 10) and not-so-good losses to Virginia and Kansas. BYU beat Wazzu in the bowl. Of course, Coach Edwards's regime never seemed place heavy emphasis on bowl results.


Cougarbib wrote:
Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.


Everyone knows BYU has only be 3 teams that finished in the top 10: Oregon State (#7 in 1967), Air Force (#8 in 1985) and Miami (#3 in 1990).



I really don't think this schedule is as tough as it seemed going into the year. Only Oregon State is better than expected, and I think they'll be a ranked 17-20 by the end of the year. I expected Notre Dame to be pretty good this year and they are.



I think several of BYU's previous teams would have had a shot to be undefeated on this schedule. Acknowledging how hard it is to be undefeated halfway into a season, I would think the with a bit of luck, 1980-81, 1983-85, 1990-91, 1996, 2006, and 2008 teams would have decent chances to be undefeated on this schedule.


If you thought ND would be this good coming into the season, you are the only one on here who did. I expected them to have 1 loss vs a very good team. But not top 5. ND, USU, and OSU are tougher than expected - also SJSU. But that is not the issue. It was tough to start with.



Disagree with all of your teams with a shot to be undefeated. Only 1984 went undefeated and they beat pretty much nobody outside of WAC.



Go look at what team kept those teams from going undefeated. It will not be a legitimate Top 10 team.



IMHO, 1984 and 1996 are the two best BYU teams ever and they did not face this kind of schedule.



BYU nearly beat U and BSI on the road and had a shot vs OSU until two fluke tipped pass plays put us in desperation mode.



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Cougarbib
Cougest wrote:
Cougest wrote:
Yes, but we at least were able to win big games. We were able to get bowl games against Ohio State. We were able to score 37 points against BSU. We were able to score 31 points against Utah. We were actually able to beat Utah and never lost three years in a row. You tell me, would you rather see a 31-34 game or a 6-7 and 6-3 point games? Lavell was 21-21 against top 25 teams. Bronco is is 4-18.


BTW - BYU has lost 4 in a row to Utah in my years of following the team and rarely beat Utah before LaVell Edwards.



LIke I said, Lavell years or even Anea. When has BYU ever lost 4 in a row with those two? Not to mention, this years Utah team is probably the weakest it's been in years. If there was ever a year to beat them, especially on national TV, this was the year. Also, BYU had never lost to Utah at home (on national TV) with Lavell or Anae like they did last year?



Like BYU, WAC and MWC teams are often over rated in rankings due to many wins over cupcakes.

Agreed. However, this year's Utah and BSU could also be considered cupcakes and look how we fared.

So outside of conference



Yes, BYU got Bowl Games vs 6-5 Michigan and won, 8-3 Ohio State and got killed, Penn State and lost, Ohio State again and lost a very low scoring game, UCLA and lost multiple before Bronco beat UCLA, SMU and won a squeaker with a Hail Mary, Missouri and won a squeaker in a low scoring game, Marshall - lost, Bowling Green or someone like that - list, Okie State - lost two, Navy, Indiana, and Washington State - lost 2 of those, K State - good win in a close game - who am I leaving out before Bronco started winning bowl games vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Tulsa, and yes a mediocre UTEP team.



Dude what are you smoking. Yes BYU lost some good bowl games but they at least SHOWED UP and they had some solid Bowl wins too. #19th ranked SMU was a solid victory and so was the next year vs a #18th ranked WSU. Beat Missouri, and Michigan, a # 20th ranked colorado, tied a #7th ranked Iowa, the last two loses against a #17th and #10th ranked OSU was by three points and a TD. Not to mention solid wins over oklahoma, a #14th ranked Kansas state......and a #16 Oregan state with Anae.



Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.

If there was ever a year to beat texas under brown it would have been last year. Yes, we had an ok showing but there is no way, with a decent offense, we should have lost that game. We were very fortunate to even beat one of the worst teams in the nation last year in Ol Miss. Still wasn't a good showing and very very boring game to watch.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Yes Miami, Oki-a Anae team and we were beating them even before bradford was knocked out of the game, Air force in 1985 and we tied a #7 Iowa. Call me crazy, but I don't believe Oregan State or ND will remain top ten this season. I guess we'll see.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.



Now this really makes me laugh. There is no way even a sophomore lead max hall team would have lost to BSU or U of U this year. BSU/UU are not powerhouses this year my friend. There is no way we have a squeaker against USU. We were tied going into the 4th quarter against OSU and should have had the lead if it wasn't for a red zone INT by Sr Riley. The only reason we even had a shot at winning/tying BSU/UU is because of how stout our defense has been. I'm sorry but I very highly disagree with this. For the sake of an argument you list this but I have a really hard time believing you believe this to be true. Although, I will say, even with one of the good coached teams of old, we loose to ND



Sure - if we had a Jim Mac offense and this year's defense and another years kicker, and Vai returning punts - then we might only have 1 loss right now with a 2nd one coming Saturday.



Ha ha...sorry still laughing. I agree with ND though.



And if we had Urban Meyer as Head Coach as well - maybe we split OSU / ND.



Miami



All in all, can you tell me you've been happy these last two years? Can you tell me we have played BYU football these last two years? Can you tell me that you thought we have shown up to big games these last two years? Can you tell me you've been happy with our play vs Utah these last two years? Can you tell me that we've played to our ability and potential these last two years? Can you tell me that we couldn't have shown better on national TV that what we have these last two years? I seriously doubt that grandpa!



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Yes grandson - I do think we played up to our potential the last two years - the problem is how little real potential we have had.



BTW how can you whine about 0-3 vs Utah and then try to come back and say you were just talking about the last two years. The 4 consecutive Utah losses, iirc, included losses to Urban Meyer - that recent.



BTW - BYU is now 0-3 vs beatable BSU teams.



I totally agree that the BYU offense dropped when Anae left. I was never on the fire Anae bandwagon and expected what we got the last two years.



This offense, other than Hoffman, who certainly has shortcomings, does not have a ton of potential right now. Williams is starting to show some. Our injured place kicker does not show much either. Defense has a lot, but clearly a few warts. Like Riley - the defense does not play as well vs good opponents.



Schedule has been over the head of our team the last three years. Now that you focused your question down to two years, can we assume you were happy with 2010?



BTW BSU and U are not cupcakes on the road. Not elite either. Just tough games.



Lower division teams usually are. NM, NMSU, Wyoming, UTEP, UNLV, etc. almost always were. For many years U was. That was largely what the glory years were built upon.



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Cougarbib
dmcougar wrote:
Cougarbib wrote:
Yes, but we at least were able to win big games. We were able to get bowl games against Ohio State. We were able to score 37 points against BSU. We were able to score 31 points against Utah. We were actually able to beat Utah and never lost three years in a row. You tell me, would you rather see a 31-34 game or a 6-7 and 6-3 point games? Lavell was 21-21 against top 25 teams. Bronco is is 4-18.


BTW - BYU has lost 4 in a row to Utah in my years of following the team and rarely beat Utah before LaVell Edwards.



LIke I said, Lavell years or even Anea. When has BYU ever lost 4 in a row with those two? Not to mention, this years Utah team is probably the weakest it's been in years. If there was ever a year to beat them, especially on national TV, this was the year. Also, BYU had never lost to Utah at home (on national TV) with Lavell or Anae like they did last year?



Like BYU, WAC and MWC teams are often over rated in rankings due to many wins over cupcakes.

Agreed. However, this year's Utah and BSU could also be considered cupcakes and look how we fared.

So outside of conference



Yes, BYU got Bowl Games vs 6-5 Michigan and won, 8-3 Ohio State and got killed, Penn State and lost, Ohio State again and lost a very low scoring game, UCLA and lost multiple before Bronco beat UCLA, SMU and won a squeaker with a Hail Mary, Missouri and won a squeaker in a low scoring game, Marshall - lost, Bowling Green or someone like that - list, Okie State - lost two, Navy, Indiana, and Washington State - lost 2 of those, K State - good win in a close game - who am I leaving out before Bronco started winning bowl games vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Tulsa, and yes a mediocre UTEP team.



Dude what are you smoking. Yes BYU lost some good bowl games but they at least SHOWED UP and they had some solid Bowl wins too. #19th ranked SMU was a solid victory and so was the next year vs a #18th ranked WSU. Beat Missouri, and Michigan, a # 20th ranked colorado, tied a #7th ranked Iowa, the last two loses against a #17th and #10th ranked OSU was by three points and a TD. Not to mention solid wins over oklahoma, a #14th ranked Kansas state......and a #16 Oregan state with Anae.



Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.

If there was ever a year to beat texas under brown it would have been last year. Yes, we had an ok showing but there is no way, with a decent offense, we should have lost that game. We were very fortunate to even beat one of the worst teams in the nation last year in Ol Miss. Still wasn't a good showing and very very boring game to watch.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Yes Miami, Oki-a Anae team and we were beating them even before bradford was knocked out of the game, Air force in 1985 and we tied a #7 Iowa. Call me crazy, but I don't believe Oregan State or ND will remain top ten this season. I guess we'll see.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.



Now this really makes me laugh. There is no way even a sophomore lead max hall team would have lost to BSU or U of U this year. BSU/UU are not powerhouses this year my friend. There is no way we have a squeaker against USU. We were tied going into the 4th quarter against OSU and should have had the lead if it wasn't for a red zone INT by Sr Riley. The only reason we even had a shot at winning/tying BSU/UU is because of how stout our defense has been. I'm sorry but I very highly disagree with this. For the sake of an argument you list this but I have a really hard time believing you believe this to be true. Although, I will say, even with one of the good coached teams of old, we loose to ND



Sure - if we had a Jim Mac offense and this year's defense and another years kicker, and Vai returning punts - then we might only have 1 loss right now with a 2nd one coming Saturday.



Ha ha...sorry still laughing. I agree with ND though.



And if we had Urban Meyer as Head Coach as well - maybe we split OSU / ND.



Miami



All in all, can you tell me you've been happy these last two years? Can you tell me we have played BYU football these last two years? Can you tell me that you thought we have shown up to big games these last two years? Can you tell me you've been happy with our play vs Utah these last two years? Can you tell me that we've played to our ability and potential these last two years? Can you tell me that we couldn't have shown better on national TV that what we have these last two years? I seriously doubt that grandpa!



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Amen Cougest, Amen.

Except, you are underestimating his love and approval of Riley last yea and his excuse making this year.


Yes DM - I have such a man crush on Riley that I got called Debbie Downer and a few other cute names when I predicted 8-4 regular season before we even knew that USU, OSU, and SJSU might rise up. And 8-4 was contingent on Riley Being Healthy - which neither you or I expected to last long. If my crystal ball had known OSU, who I predicted would not be a gimme, would be Top 10 and USU would be good - I would have predicted five losses with a healthy Riley Nelson.



Because a healthy Riley Nelson is Kevin Feterik good - not elite and this schedule was expected to be in our top 3 in difficulty and turned out slightly more difficult that pre-season SOS indicated.



I boldly predict 2-3 more losses if Riley stays reasonably healthy and even more losses if Riley goes down.



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K
KingCoug
We'll win our final 3 games, regardless of who is the QB.
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M
Mingjai
Cougarbib wrote:
Cougarbib wrote:
Outside of Bowls - Miami who was legit, A&M who was OK and a some big name teams in Down Years - Texas, Okie for example.



List all of the Top 10 Wins BYU has ever had - right here.



Miami

Don't try to list #3 Pitt who had a losing season unless you list that ranked Oki team Bronco beat



Then BYU plays two top 10 teams in a row after playing @U, @BSU, and USU, and you wonder why they are not undefeated. No other BYU team I have ever seen would be undefeated with this schedule. Very few would have less than three losses right now.


Everyone knows BYU has only be 3 teams that finished in the top 10: Oregon State (#7 in 1967), Air Force (#8 in 1985) and Miami (#3 in 1990).



I really don't think this schedule is as tough as it seemed going into the year. Only Oregon State is better than expected, and I think they'll be a ranked 17-20 by the end of the year. I expected Notre Dame to be pretty good this year and they are.



I think several of BYU's previous teams would have had a shot to be undefeated on this schedule. Acknowledging how hard it is to be undefeated halfway into a season, I would think the with a bit of luck, 1980-81, 1983-85, 1990-91, 1996, 2006, and 2008 teams would have decent chances to be undefeated on this schedule.


If you thought ND would be this good coming into the season, you are the only one on here who did. I expected them to have 1 loss vs a very good team. But not top 5. ND, USU, and OSU are tougher than expected - also SJSU. But that is not the issue. It was tough to start with.



Disagree with all of your teams with a shot to be undefeated. Only 1984 went undefeated and they beat pretty much nobody outside of WAC.



Go look at what team kept those teams from going undefeated. It will not be a legitimate Top 10 team.



IMHO, 1984 and 1996 are the two best BYU teams ever and they did not face this kind of schedule.



BYU nearly beat U and BSI on the road and had a shot vs OSU until two fluke tipped pass plays put us in desperation mode.


I'll give you SJSU being better than expected. I also thought USU would be pretty good this year, so maybe my subjective expectations were different than the consensus here.



With the caveat that there's a big difference between having a legitimate shot at going undefeated and actually doing it, I'll address the two BYU teams that I think would have the best shot at being undefeated under this years schedule so far. The others I mentioned would have a decent shot as well, but I'm to tired to do the analysis right now.



1996: This team had an efficient and accurate QB, fast receivers, two dominants TEs, and a good running attack. The defense was solid and got better as the year went on. Special teams were good all year. Sure the Wrecking Crew turned out to be a dud and some internal issues cause a loss at UDub, but that played some good teams, including KState, Wyoming, and Utah. This is BYU's best team ever, and the balanced offense would have beat this years Utah, BSU, and USU teams by at least 2 TDs and BYU's two best cornerbacks ever would have helped a lot in a shootout with OSU.



1985: While in 1984 the ball always seemed to bounce in BYU's favor, in 1985 luck seemed to even out. This team lost to #7 UCLA on a fluke long bomb, UTEP on a 101-yard pick 6, and #14 Ohio State on two fumbles. Despite hobbling almost all year, Bosco and team were still able to beat defending Orange Bowl champs UDub, reigning Cotton Bowl champs BC, and #8 Air Force. The defense pitched 3 shut outs, and held its three top 15 opponents to an average of 18 points per game. This team was better than the 1984 team (better =/= better season, obviously), and I think it combination of stifling defense and effective offense would have given it a great chance be undefeated on this schedule.
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