BYU has not done one thing of note on the field since 2009

And the thing that is more depressing is that we've had better talent than ever before. But what is most depressing is that this staff CANNOT do any better and 2013 is going to be bad. Maybe bad enough to move the AD to look elsewhere. I've been on the "don't fire Bronco, just get him to repent" side for a while now. But I now think it is in the team's best long term interest to start putting out feelers.



We need a big time coach. Bronco is not it.

One wonders what this team could do (or a team with comparative talent) if we had an offensive coordinator as good at their job as Bronco is at being a defensive coordinator.

We need a big time coach. Bronco is not it.

And who is that going to be? Given BYU's rather severe limitations in the recruiting, money, and off-the-field expectation departments, you're not going to be finding many (any?) candidates better than Bronco. You're certainly not going to get someone who can walk in and take the program to the next level in one or two seasons a la Urban Meyer. You're going to be making a 5-7 year commitment to retooling the program and watching less than mediocre seasons before you can even have expectations of anything approaching grandeur, and before that, you'll probably have to run through 3 or 4 Crowton's as well.



I'm as frustrated as anybody that he is 4-18 or whatever against ranked opponents. I am at a loss as to why Doman is still around. etc. etc. etc. But BYU is not a destination school. That is reality. I, for one, am glad Bronco has chosen to stick around. There is a much higher probability of him getting his issues figured out than there is of BYU being able to go out and find a better coach that will get faster results.

True, but---

Never fear, Riley is here...for the rest of the year.



In Doman we don't trust. He was not ready. And I believe that Bronco has hamstrung him regardless. That relationship is not doing well.

I disagree Magnus. I think just about any coach could win the games that bronco wins based on talent alone. If that is true, there's little downside to at least exploring options.



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Not sure what you mean by "exploring options", so I can't say that I disagree with you on that.



"Based on talent alone"--um, we really aren't that "talented". We typically have recruiting classes in the 40-70 ranges and we churn out a lot of over achievers. Beyond that, not just any coach could come into BYU and recruit the way Bronco does, while promoting BYU's image in the way the board of trustees wants it promoted, while picking up the wins Bronco has had. It is not difficult for a program like BYU to slip, as evidenced by the Crowton era. We fans just want to be elite so badly and I'm not sure we fully understand what that takes sometimes.



I'm not saying I'm Bronco's biggest fan but I do think that many fans do not understand the perimeters he is operating under.



The jury is always out though.

Maybe K-Whitt. He was so moved at the BYU Beck- Harline win over Utah in 2006 that I think I saw him cry.

Bronco is the man for the job. What we need is a new Oline coach and proven offensive coordinator who has autonomy so that we quit this low scoring BS. We have the talent to go for the jugular but Bronco demands conservative, ball-control, mistake prone offenses.

What! But what about those Top 25 rankings? Couldn't possibly be overrated. And, what about all those bowl wins where we beat 4th place Pac10 teams or the likes of Tulsa? That's some legit, national prominent foes under some intense national prominent lights. Who cares if out bowl game last year was one least watched games. We won! We beat Tulsa!



Don't worry guys, Spiff will come on in just a bit and throw some stats out there showing how good teams struggle to beat good teams too. How no other school has won as many bowl games as us and how we've been ranked in the Top 25 more than Utah. Then we can all console ourselves.



Fact of the matter is BYU is nothing to shake a stick out. If Hawaii, BSU, TCU, and Utah can all break the BCS barrier and beat elite teams why can't we? Do they really have better talent on the field than we do. I don't buy that. So, what'anthem difference? Coaching.



Bronco is great, but he certainly has his faults. The biggest being his stubbornness and fixation on one or two aspects if the game. His philosophy in offense is wrong and does not work against top tier teams. His OC can't coach. His OL coach is out of his league.



BYU pays well. Well enough that is. Holmoe has gone to great lengths to ensure they are and don't forget the extra donnated funds a few patrons have put forth to ensure BYU can compete in the coaches' salary department. The money is there.



Fact of the matter is, Holmoe's bosses and Bronco's bosses could care less whether we bust the BCS or are able to beat ranked teams. They care about a squeaky clean image and strengthening young men's lives. Bronco delivers that. Bronco stays. Our best hope at improvement lies with Bronco admitting he was wrong, Holmoe applying a bit of pressure, or Doman accepting he's out of his league.



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Mars wrote:


Well, I guess that Tom Holmoe could name himself as the new football head coach

In reality, Holmoe might be the only qualified coach we could get if we lose Bronco.

byutx wrote:
And the thing that is more depressing is that we've had better talent than ever before. But what is most depressing is that this staff CANNOT do any better and 2013 is going to be bad. Maybe bad enough to move the AD to look elsewhere. I've been on the "don't fire Bronco, just get him to repent" side for a while now. But I now think it is in the team's best long term interest to start putting out feelers.



We need a big time coach. Bronco is not it.

Good luck with that. How old are you? History seems to be repeating itself. Disgruntled and unrealistic fans in total denial of who we are and who we are not, will list all the big-time coaches they would like to get every time a coach quits - or is fired. Then one by one these coaches will make it clear that they are not interested. Then BYU will get someone unproven - and fans and players will cross their fingers.



And talk about TOTAL BS - we do not have more talented players overall. We do have more talented players on defense. But, as they showed Saturday - they are more talented - they are not elite - generally. Van Noy may be. Ansah - possibly.



The offense has a major talent gap. Major.



QB - oft injured QB - limited even when healthy.

FB - we do not really have one.

RB - promising, but inexperienced, 17 year old RB - faster than we usually have - not elite speex - not a power runner.

TE - emerging tight end - Friel - hardly recruited - dropped a lot of passes Saturday - seemed inexperienced and tentative VS legitimate defense.

Slot - Falslev is good. Hardly elite.

WR - Hoffman makes plays. Not a blazer. Could block much better. Maybe NFL material.

WR - Apo - over-rated. Does not make plays. Not a blazer. Not elite.

OL - generally speaking - inexperienced at best.



Sorry -



Collie > Hoffman.

Beck or Hall > Nelson

Harline, Pitta, or George > Friel or Mahina

Brown or Unga > anyone since

Tonga and Vakapuna > anyone since

OL - weakest in a long time



We do not have more talent on offense. Not close,



Hype is not the same thing as talent.



And we came into the season with no experienced back-up at QB.



What we do have re more talent - is a more talented defense and significantly more talented opponents.



Ding Ding Ding.



Oh - and Special Teams - another talent shortfall in the kicking game.



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rblack wrote:

Well, I guess that Tom Holmoe could name himself as the new football head coach

In reality, Holmoe might be the only qualified coach we could get if we lose Bronco.

If he even wants to coach - CAL experience may have taken away any desire to coach - he was run out of town - and Cak has been mostly better since he was fired.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Collie > Hoffman.

Beck or Hall > Nelson

Harline, Pitta, or George > Friel or Mahina

Brown or Unga > anyone since

Tonga and Vakapuna > anyone since

OL - weakest in a long time



We do not have more talent on offense. Not close,



Hype is not the same thing as talent.

This is my biggest beef with the coaching. They've been unable to turn hype into production on the field. Yes, the players themselves have a responsibility to make that happen as well, but since I have no way knowing what their work ethic is like, I can only look to the coaches.



Of course we all hope that Hill and Mangum can be the next Beck and Hall, but have you seen anything in the last three years to give you any confidence that our coaches can make that happen?

2009 was also the last time we didn't have an elite qb at the helm.



i'm sure you can blame coaches for that as well... but most of the biggest mistakes of the offensive units this year were not play calling errors. They were player errors. Again, blame coaching if you want, but at some point, it's really not ALL the coaches fault.

tmoney35 wrote:

Collie > Hoffman.

Beck or Hall > Nelson

Harline, Pitta, or George > Friel or Mahina

Brown or Unga > anyone since

Tonga and Vakapuna > anyone since

OL - weakest in a long time



We do not have more talent on offense. Not close,



Hype is not the same thing as talent.

This is my biggest beef with the coaching. They've been unable to turn hype into production on the field. Yes, the players themselves have a responsibility to make that happen as well, but since I have no way knowing what their work ethic is like, I can only look to the coaches.



Of course we all hope that Hill and Mangum can be the next Beck and Hall, but have you seen anything in the last three years to give you any confidence that our coaches can make that happen?

Well Beck and Hall are evidence that it could happen again. But the last three years provide no evidence.



BYU should have tried out Nelson more in 2009 to know what he was and was not.

Should have redshirted Heaps in 2010 if possible and given Lark a shot.

BYU bet the farm on Jake Heaps - and lost. He needed more time at best.

That left a vacuum in 2012.

They had the right idea developing and testing Hill this year - but that ended too soon to know if he can become a good passer.



And the overly ambitious scheduling - that Beck and Hall never faced will make things look even worse than they are.





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