How much is bad luck responsible for the offense?

There sure has been plenty of negativity this week on CC. Last week I posted a survey of how soon the fans would boo if Riley came in the game. Well Riley never came in but the boo birds were out in force during last weeks game anyway.



I wonder how much of our offensive problems the last two years is just due to bad luck and injuries. Doman came in last year to what seems to have been a totally disfunctional locker room (which I think the coaches/team captians are at least 50% responsible for allowing it to happen) and this year there's been plenty of injuries. Most expected Riley to be injured but I don't think most people expected it to come during game 2 against Weber State on a passing play (I think it was a passing play but actually haven't seen it).



Brandon Gourney wrote an article this week about the offensive struggles http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865564015/BYU-football-Five-reasons-for-BYUs-offensive-struggles.html?pg=2 He reminds us of how little continuity our O-line has due to injuries. They essentially didn't have Spring practice and there have been injuries to key players in the early part of the season. We also lost a key blocker last year when Pritchard was injured.



Every team has injuries but ours seemed to be focused on our O-line this year which coincidentaly or not seems to be the root of a lot of our problems. I don't know what Weber can do if his players can't practice and I don't know how Sorensen can kick or the QB stay in the pocket if the O-line can't protect. I don't think it should be an excuse but perhaps we need to be more patient with the coaches based on the situation?



Just something I've been thinking about.

Bad luck is part of it. However, coaching knew of the problems with the offensive line, and I believe did not appropriately account for it. Right now, the offense is to run the QB for at least 1/3 of the plays, which is far too much (as even Bronco has stated). The only time the QB should have a designed run is on two, maybe three draw plays a game. Any other rushes should be to pick up a first down or get a few yards before getting out of bounds on broken plays.



With a bad offensive line, we should work, not on scrambling and running more, but getting the ball out of the QB's hands faster. Three step drops that get the ball out in 1.5 seconds should be the norm, on quick slants, WR screens to APO (always open and always good for six or seven yards--unless he spins into the defender) TE drags, WR crossing routes over the middle, or the backs out in the flat. A quick passing game would help the Oline tremendously and the health of our QBs. You use the quick passing game to get the Dline on their heels, and then you throw the home run ball.



Tom Brady doesn't get sacked very much because the ball is always gone in just a couple of seconds. We would be smart to do likewise. That quick passing game where the QBs drop is timed with the WR routes is the West Coast offense, and the BYU offense of old. It is what our personnel are built for, and what we need to build our offense around.



Play time in the laboratory is over. Its time to get back to work.

You mean Romper room time? The only game we have seen any fire out of this Oline was vs Hawaii. This has been a systemic problem for over three years. Every Team has injuries.



I'm beside myself with this thread. I applaud optimism. But I shake my head at this mammy pamsy revisionist thinking and excuse making.

This is the excuse for last years star studded -- or was that star dudded-line?? Not a chance in Provo. This problem has been masked over by the disastrous confluence BDoman's heart of heart offensive scheme, mixed with a few running back qb''s who can escape and run when all else fails (or even as a staple, first option).

Hey Stirfry, you may like the taste of that sand, just don't forget to come up and breath once in a while. ;-)

Don't mistake natural consequences of a given style of play and demanding too much from an O-Line as "bad luck." In many ways, Doman has made his own bad luck.

snoscythe wrote:
Don't mistake natural consequences of a given style of play and demanding too much from an O-Line as "bad luck." In many ways, Doman has made his own bad luck.

I'm not trying to give Doman a pass here or Weber. I was in the stands last week cringing every time Hill ran as it's was only a matter of time until he got hurt. Running your QB is not a formula for sustained success. However, I do wonder if Doman is running the offense the way he wants too or if he's using the cards he's been dealth with his O-line. I agree with Cougarfan87 that there's other ways to deal with poor pass protection but those other ways require a QB who can make quick reads.



Our offensive line was terrible last year and dissapointing this year. I really have no idea if this year can be attributed to missed offseason practice time but I do agree that doesn't explain last year.

Cougarfan87 wrote:
With a bad offensive line, we should work, not on scrambling and running more, but getting the ball out of the QB's hands faster. Three step drops that get the ball out in 1.5 seconds should be the norm, on quick slants, WR screens to APO (always open and always good for six or seven yards--unless he spins into the defender) TE drags, WR crossing routes over the middle, or the backs out in the flat. A quick passing game would help the Oline tremendously and the health of our QBs. You use the quick passing game to get the Dline on their heels, and then you throw the home run ball.



Tom Brady doesn't get sacked very much because the ball is always gone in just a couple of seconds. We would be smart to do likewise. That quick passing game where the QBs drop is timed with the WR routes is the West Coast offense, and the BYU offense of old. It is what our personnel are built for, and what we need to build our offense around.

I'm 100 percent on with this (though you forgot to mention the 5-yard out patterns in your list). BYU's needs to return to its timing passing offense roots to relieve pressure on the QB and get all 5 eligible receiver in the game.

Don't forget them not picking oline starters until after the first game. who does that? the starters should have been picked after the first week of fall camp at the latest and been given the rest of fall camp to develop chemistry and work together.



oh, and apparently he picked the wrong starters.

Mingjai wrote:

With a bad offensive line, we should work, not on scrambling and running more, but getting the ball out of the QB's hands faster. Three step drops that get the ball out in 1.5 seconds should be the norm, on quick slants, WR screens to APO (always open and always good for six or seven yards--unless he spins into the defender) TE drags, WR crossing routes over the middle, or the backs out in the flat. A quick passing game would help the Oline tremendously and the health of our QBs. You use the quick passing game to get the Dline on their heels, and then you throw the home run ball.



Tom Brady doesn't get sacked very much because the ball is always gone in just a couple of seconds. We would be smart to do likewise. That quick passing game where the QBs drop is timed with the WR routes is the West Coast offense, and the BYU offense of old. It is what our personnel are built for, and what we need to build our offense around.

I'm 100 percent on with this (though you forgot to mention the 5-yard out patterns in your list). BYU's needs to return to its timing passing offense roots to relieve pressure on the QB and get all 5 eligible receiver in the game.

Count me in too.



I don't understand why bad OL automatically equals QB scrambling. Maybe some of that is Hill, but most of it is on Doman. Doman certainly isn't telling his QB to stop scrambling and certainly isn't gearing his offense otherwise.



I hate Bronco's edict that we should 30 run plays and 30 pass plays; that somehow a 50/50 ratio equates to a balanced offense. We should be passing it to open the run.



As for the topic of this thread in general, the ball doesn't bounce your way when you're continually in bad position. Poor OL play, poor snaps, poor game plan, poor play calling, poor kicking, and poor QB play. We're lucky it's going as well as it's going.

Stirfry wrote:
I agree with Cougarfan87 that there's other ways to deal with poor pass protection but those other ways require a QB who can make quick reads.

I was reading something Steve Young said about the West Coast offense that basically said it takes away all of the worry about the reads. He basically said that Coach Walsh said his footwork was a mess when he got to the 49ers and worked with him so that his feet would decide where the ball should go. Young explained that in a 3 step drop, if there is no interruption to the drop, once you hit your third step, you throw to your primary receiver. If you get bounced once, you move to your secondary receiver. If you get bounced again, then you move to your hot route. After that you tuck and run or throw it away. The same would go for five step drops, but the routes would be deeper on a five step (3 Step drop was equivalent to roughly a seven yard route). There is no scanning the field looking for an open receiver. Your feet tell you where to go with the ball, and the receivers are responsible for running crisp routes and being where they are supposed to be (on zone coverage, throttling down between the zones, and on man coverage running off of the defender so they are open).



It is a precision timing offense, but making the progressions is easy when you let your feet decide where the ball is going. Quick reads are not essential--good QB footwork and WRs running precise routes are essential (and the QBs and WRs being able to know if it is man or zone by using motion prior to the snap).

The "summer of discontent" never seems to end around here and I've been on the bandwagon just as often as the rest.



Bottom line is we are a "peculiar people", and we've never had a head coach that acted that much out of the norm of all the other HC's. That is Bronco Mendenhall.



I went to the game last Friday and as usual, there was probably a disproportionate amount of children and families that you would not see at most stadiums across this country. The stands were half-full (final attendane was 63,086) despite the coach asking for fans to try to get to games earlier, it just never happens no matter what day or time the game is (so no one point out this the game was on a Friday at 6:15 because I'd be willing to wager Saturday at 1:30 the stands still won't be full 15 minutes before the game). When the team came out, it was loud, but I've heard it much louder. Finally, when the stands were full, then on 3rd down plays or other notable instances, the crowd was noisy.



I say some of our woahs are from bad luck, but the bottom line I see is that what we have is what we will have under Bronco. We either get on his bandwagon or stay unhappy. I don't know if there is any middle ground. I'm not onboard totally, but I'm not totally disappointed, but there's something that is just unsettling about the whole football environment.



Futher proof seems to be that the same feelings are not felt about the BB program and Coach Rose.

Even if it is just "bad luck" the duration of this "bad luck" is too long. Got to get rid of the sources of bad luck and move on. It is probably better for both parties.



Prolonged bad luck is a sign of incompatibility issues and other factors.

Cougarfan87 wrote:

I agree with Cougarfan87 that there's other ways to deal with poor pass protection but those other ways require a QB who can make quick reads.

I was reading something Steve Young said about the West Coast offense that basically said it takes away all of the worry about the reads. He basically said that Coach Walsh said his footwork was a mess when he got to the 49ers and worked with him so that his feet would decide where the ball should go. Young explained that in a 3 step drop, if there is no interruption to the drop, once you hit your third step, you throw to your primary receiver. If you get bounced once, you move to your secondary receiver. If you get bounced again, then you move to your hot route. After that you tuck and run or throw it away. The same would go for five step drops, but the routes would be deeper on a five step (3 Step drop was equivalent to roughly a seven yard route). There is no scanning the field looking for an open receiver. Your feet tell you where to go with the ball, and the receivers are responsible for running crisp routes and being where they are supposed to be (on zone coverage, throttling down between the zones, and on man coverage running off of the defender so they are open).



It is a precision timing offense, but making the progressions is easy when you let your feet decide where the ball is going. Quick reads are not essential--good QB footwork and WRs running precise routes are essential (and the QBs and WRs being able to know if it is man or zone by using motion prior to the snap).

I think these are the series of article to which you are referring (more link in the articles' sidebars):



http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/popularity.html

Mingjai wrote:
I think these are the series of article to which you are referring (more link in the articles' sidebars):



http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/popularity.html

Yes, those were the articles I was talking about. I hope I represented them accurately from memory.