Now That

Doman has been put on notice and

Bronco has been given a short leash and

Jacksonman has put out a Hit Order on Nelson and

Lawboy read that Lark is miffed





Is there still a game Saturday?



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From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0. Yes, the coaches shouldn't have played an injured QB, yes they should have clearly communicated to Hill to kneel on the ball instead of run a play (oh, and by the way a sr veteran QB would have kneeled on the ball without being told to do it). but the bottom line is what is done is done and we are 4-2 and have the defense to win every game we have left on our sched. time to let mistakes go and try to enjoy this defense. If the offense can get its ducks in a row we could see some really good football. BYU has gone undefeated exactly once in all the years we have played football, if we got this much complaining during the detmer years, when he lost 3 games even in 1990 when we beat #1 Miami, Lavell edwards would have been run out of town. Oh yeah, he almost was a couple of times. I remember BYU fans during the 2001 Crowton streak happy that Lavell was gone, I remember trying to temper expectations then too since I know that Crowton would have to lose some games eventually, which of course happened far more often than we could handle. Bottom line is, we don't have perfect coaches, no one does. Sometimes teams catch just enough breaks and go undefeated. If We had hit the FG and 2 point conversion we would be. When utah went undefeated, they caught some big breaks from TCU.

frdbtr wrote:
From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0. Yes, the coaches shouldn't have played an injured QB, yes they should have clearly communicated to Hill to kneel on the ball instead of run a play (oh, and by the way a sr veteran QB would have kneeled on the ball without being told to do it). but the bottom line is what is done is done and we are 4-2 and have the defense to win every game we have left on our sched. time to let mistakes go and try to enjoy this defense. If the offense can get its ducks in a row we could see some really good football. BYU has gone undefeated exactly once in all the years we have played football, if we got this much complaining during the detmer years, when he lost 3 games even in 1990 when we beat #1 Miami, Lavelle edwards would have been run out of town. Oh yeah, he almost was a couple of times. I remember BYU fans during the 2001 Crowton streak happy that Lavelle was gone, I remember trying to temper expectations then too since I know that Crowton would have to lose some games eventually, which of course happened far more often than we could handle. Bottom line is, we don't have perfect coaches, no one does. Sometimes teams catch just enough breaks and go undefeated. If We had hit the FG and 2 point conversion we would be. When utah went undefeated, they caught some big breaks from TCU.

In general, I agree with posts like this. I think the reason why fans are turning is the series of blunders that just seem obviously stupid. Some of this reaches past Doman...but to recount why my glass is half-empty:



(1) Deciding to try a 2 quarterback system.

(2) Jake Heaps performing at a high level as a freshman only to really struggle as a soph

(3) The 2011 Utah loss

(4) The obvious devotion to Riley Nelson in spite of evident areas of concern

(5) Offensive struggles against poor defenses (WSU, Weber, Boise, Utah)

(6) Playing Nelson injured and allowing Nelson to dictate when he should be pulled

(7) Tolerting TEN Nelson turnovers in two games before being yanked after 7 quarters of action. TEN.

(8) Scoring less than 10 points in two key contests this season

(9) Going for two...

(10) Demoting Lark without a meaningful chance to play after six years of preparation

(11) Inability to communicate resulting in a season ending injury to Taysom Hill

(12) Running quarterbacks on draws and options at an insane rate

(13) Passing for less than 100 yards



Sheesh...need I go on? This is worse than I thought.



:(

pjmuli wrote:

From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0. Yes, the coaches shouldn't have played an injured QB, yes they should have clearly communicated to Hill to kneel on the ball instead of run a play (oh, and by the way a sr veteran QB would have kneeled on the ball without being told to do it). but the bottom line is what is done is done and we are 4-2 and have the defense to win every game we have left on our sched. time to let mistakes go and try to enjoy this defense. If the offense can get its ducks in a row we could see some really good football. BYU has gone undefeated exactly once in all the years we have played football, if we got this much complaining during the detmer years, when he lost 3 games even in 1990 when we beat #1 Miami, Lavelle edwards would have been run out of town. Oh yeah, he almost was a couple of times. I remember BYU fans during the 2001 Crowton streak happy that Lavelle was gone, I remember trying to temper expectations then too since I know that Crowton would have to lose some games eventually, which of course happened far more often than we could handle. Bottom line is, we don't have perfect coaches, no one does. Sometimes teams catch just enough breaks and go undefeated. If We had hit the FG and 2 point conversion we would be. When utah went undefeated, they caught some big breaks from TCU.

In general, I agree with posts like this. I think the reason why fans are turning is the series of blunders that just seem obviously stupid. Some of this reaches past Doman...but to recount why my glass is half-empty:



(1) Deciding to try a 2 quarterback system.

(2) Jake Heaps performing at a high level as a freshman only to really struggle as a soph

(3) The 2011 Utah loss

(4) The obvious devotion to Riley Nelson in spite of evident areas of concern

(5) Offensive struggles against poor defenses (WSU, Weber, Boise, Utah)

(6) Playing Nelson injured and allowing Nelson to dictate when he should be pulled

(7) Tolerting TEN Nelson turnovers in two games before being yanked after 7 quarters of action. TEN.

(8) Scoring less than 10 points in two key contests this season

(9) Going for two...

(10) Demoting Lark without a meaningful chance to play after six years of preparation

(11) Inability to communicate resulting in a season ending injury to Taysom Hill

(12) Running quarterbacks on draws and options at an insane rate

(13) Passing for less than 100 yards



Sheesh...need I go on? This is worse than I thought.



:(

BYU scored 45 pts against Weber, they scored 30 against WSU, both are fine. Do we need to scroe 60 to satisfy fans? Throw utah completely out of the equasion, it doesn't matter what they do against every other team on their schedule, they always play their best game against us. That is why when all the euphoria was happening when usu was beating them, I came on this board and tried to tell everyone not to expect the same team against us and voila! utah hasn't played as good before or since.

frdbtr wrote:
From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0.

I think that is because absent a few small boneheaded decisions by our coaches we probably would be 6-0. kind of like playing riley injured after giving someone else the reps all week basically acknowledging that you knew riley was hurt and then keeping him in the whole game and the next game until a true freshman came in and almost won the game despite these ridiculous decisions.



we are mad because we care we were so close to a phenomenal season had simply better decision been made. doman and bronco get paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

jonnylingo wrote:

From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0.

I think that is because absent a few small boneheaded decisions by our coaches we probably would be 6-0. kind of like playing riley injured after giving someone else the reps all week basically acknowledging that you knew riley was hurt and then keeping him in the whole game and the next game until a true freshman came in and almost won the game despite these ridiculous decisions.



we are mad because we care we were so close to a phenomenal season had simply better decision been made. doman and bronco get paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

I'm pretty pissed about it too but what good does it do anyone to keep rehashing it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Every freaking thread that is created is a new complaint about the same freaking things everyone has been complaining about since the utah loss. Like bib said, you wouldn't even know whe have a game on saturday, that by the way, is against the #10 ranked team in the country and BYU has a great shot at beating them and making a national splash, 2 losses and all.

Just remember we will have a less than 100% Riley playing QB for us.......that only hurts our chances at pulling out a win vs the Beav'



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I am the only one is pretty sure that frdbtr is either Bronco, Doman or Riley, or one of their wives/lovers or closely related to any of them? No one can be THAT short-sighted and oblivious to the patterns and trends of the Bronco era, the Doman era and/or the Riley era!



The fact that we are not 6-0 right now means that we will likely never be a very competitive top-10 team. If we couldn't be 6-0 right now with our pathetic schedule thus far (rebuilding U without starting QB, RB and safeties, and rebuilding BSU who has no offense and new defense), when we have a senior heavy team, it means our program is in a very pathetic state.



I really feel bad for those of you who can't remove your blue Bronco goggles for a moment to see the poor state of our program and where our program could be with a few simple changes that our coaches seem oblivious to or to prideful to make.



So many on here have predicted a hurt Riley and a hurt Hill if Doman didn't adapt. Many predicted a ceiling of losing to the good and great teams. We have been at that ceiling for years. We beat cupcakes, beat a mediocre team or two, lose to decent teams, and get blown out by good teams. Our 10-3 seasons are junk! Our #25 rating last year was not deserved. We are becoming a second tier MWC/WAC team. In these old conferences, we would be at the level of USU. If we played them away this year, we would have lost. We are behing the BSU, UofU, TCU, ND, etc of the world and are hovering at about the USU, Air Force, SDSU and usually Hawaii level for the past three years. THIS IS CAUSE FOR MAJOR FREAKING CONCERN!

jacksonman wrote:

The fact that we are not 6-0 right now means that we will likely never be a very competitive top-10 team.

:lol: good one.

jacksonman wrote:
I am the only one is pretty sure that frdbtr is either Bronco, Doman or Riley, or one of their wives/lovers or closely related to any of them? No one can be THAT short-sighted and oblivious to the patterns and trends of the Bronco era, the Doman era and/or the Riley era!



The fact that we are not 6-0 right now means that we will likely never be a very competitive top-10 team. If we couldn't be 6-0 right now with our pathetic schedule thus far (rebuilding U without starting QB, RB and safeties, and rebuilding BSU who has no offense and new defense), when we have a senior heavy team, it means our program is in a very pathetic state.



I really feel bad for those of you who can't remove your blue Bronco goggles for a moment to see the poor state of our program and where our program could be with a few simple changes that our coaches seem oblivious to or to prideful to make.



So many on here have predicted a hurt Riley and a hurt Hill if Doman didn't adapt. Many predicted a ceiling of losing to the good and great teams. We have been at that ceiling for years. We beat cupcakes, beat a mediocre team or two, lose to decent teams, and get blown out by good teams. Our 10-3 seasons are junk! Our #25 rating last year was not deserved. We are becoming a second tier MWC/WAC team. In these old conferences, we would be at the level of USU. If we played them away this year, we would have lost. We are behing the BSU, UofU, TCU, ND, etc of the world and are hovering at about the USU, Air Force, SDSU and usually Hawaii level for the past three years. THIS IS CAUSE FOR MAJOR FREAKING CONCERN!

Air wolf is that you?

jacksonman wrote:
We are behing the BSU, UofU, TCU, ND, etc of the world and are hovering at about the USU, Air Force, SDSU and usually Hawaii level for the past three years.

SImply hilarious stuff. You're on a roll tonight.

jacksonman wrote:
I am the only one is pretty sure that frdbtr is either Bronco, Doman or Riley, or one of their wives/lovers or closely related to any of them? No one can be THAT short-sighted and oblivious to the patterns and trends of the Bronco era, the Doman era and/or the Riley era!



The fact that we are not 6-0 right now means that we will likely never be a very competitive top-10 team. If we couldn't be 6-0 right now with our pathetic schedule thus far (rebuilding U without starting QB, RB and safeties, and rebuilding BSU who has no offense and new defense), when we have a senior heavy team, it means our program is in a very pathetic state.



I really feel bad for those of you who can't remove your blue Bronco goggles for a moment to see the poor state of our program and where our program could be with a few simple changes that our coaches seem oblivious to or to prideful to make.



So many on here have predicted a hurt Riley and a hurt Hill if Doman didn't adapt. Many predicted a ceiling of losing to the good and great teams. We have been at that ceiling for years. We beat cupcakes, beat a mediocre team or two, lose to decent teams, and get blown out by good teams. Our 10-3 seasons are junk! Our #25 rating last year was not deserved. We are becoming a second tier MWC/WAC team. In these old conferences, we would be at the level of USU. If we played them away this year, we would have lost. We are behing the BSU, UofU, TCU, ND, etc of the world and are hovering at about the USU, Air Force, SDSU and usually Hawaii level for the past three years. THIS IS CAUSE FOR MAJOR FREAKING CONCERN!

Cry baby in chief speaks.

jacksonman, I think where you are losing people is that you are calling for the program as a whole to be whitewashed rather than making smaller changes. Where most see Bronco with a stellar, top-5 defense and think Bronco should stay and correct his mis-step in promoting Doman, you are calling for us to throw the defense out with the offense as well. That's where you are losing people and getting reamed.



And BTW, you shouldn't take people realizing Doman is a problem as people coming around to what you are saying---some people have been saying Doman is the problem even when we were 2-0.



BYU is one good hire away from national prominence if Bronco can sustain what he is doing on D this year with quality cover corners and a speed-based blitz package. As long as he tries to make that one good hire, I'm more than happy to keep him.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0.

I think that is because absent a few small boneheaded decisions by our coaches we probably would be 6-0. kind of like playing riley injured after giving someone else the reps all week basically acknowledging that you knew riley was hurt and then keeping him in the whole game and the next game until a true freshman came in and almost won the game despite these ridiculous decisions.



we are mad because we care we were so close to a phenomenal season had simply better decision been made. doman and bronco get paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

I'm pretty pissed about it too but what good does it do anyone to keep rehashing it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Every freaking thread that is created is a new complaint about the same freaking things everyone has been complaining about since the utah loss. Like bib said, you wouldn't even know whe have a game on saturday, that by the way, is against the #10 ranked team in the country and BYU has a great shot at beating them and making a national splash, 2 losses and all.

Just curious frdbtr, for the record, do you think Bronco is a good Head Coach? (I didn't say DC) Do you think Doman is a good OC? If you were Bronco, would you fire Doman? Would you fire Weber? If you were the AD would you put pressure on Bronco to make changes by removing the OC? I'm really interested in your reply.



I believe this year was a year in which all the stars were aligning for something truly special. I know that's why you have fans so frustrated. These kind of years may only come every 10-20 years or so. We're not bitching because we are negative and like to complain, we extremely disappointed with the numerous mistakes that should have been avoided with a true top level BCS contending institution. We're not crying...we're passionate!! I've been a fan since the 60's and live and breathe BYU, for generations, you won't find someone who bleeds blue more than me. Jacksonman, pjmuli and jonnylingo get it. I live in a world where not everyone gets a medal world, where excellence is rewarded, incompetence is not tolerated. Stupidty is a self-correcting problem...Margaret Thatcher. One way or another things should right themselves.

I think Bronco is a terrific Head coach and BYU is lucky to have him. I don't see anyone anywhere that can and would do as good of a job as he does with BYU's limitations in Recruiting due to missions and academic standards.



I think Doman deserves an incomplete. I think he has done some good things and has made some mistakes. I think he is actually about where Anae was with his play calling in his second year. Doman has had the offense for less than 2 years and has not had the luxury of a John Beck at QB with Curtis Brown behind him as RB. I think he deserves at least as much time as Anae got and see if he can polish some things up and develop an offense.



The Oline has been bad, is that because of Weber or because of injury. It is well documented that Riley Nelson was pretty irritated in Fall camp that he wasn't able to work with his Oline conistantly. In spring they didn't have enough Olineman to even hold full drills so they had to limit it to 7 on 7 work. I don't know, if the Oline doesn't improve dramatically throughout the year than we should look into a new Oline coach. I don't think that BYU needs to start firing guys as soon as we lose a game every year. That kind of inconistancy makes for bad programs. I am also not someone who condones making broad steareotypical accusations against guys that are completely false like the classic Riley criticism that his arm is so weak he can't throw the ball further than 10 yards, and the new one about Doman being incapable of calling a passing offense. Both of those are just pot shots being taken due to a couple bad performances.

BoiseBYU wrote:

I am the only one is pretty sure that frdbtr is either Bronco, Doman or Riley, or one of their wives/lovers or closely related to any of them? No one can be THAT short-sighted and oblivious to the patterns and trends of the Bronco era, the Doman era and/or the Riley era!



The fact that we are not 6-0 right now means that we will likely never be a very competitive top-10 team. If we couldn't be 6-0 right now with our pathetic schedule thus far (rebuilding U without starting QB, RB and safeties, and rebuilding BSU who has no offense and new defense), when we have a senior heavy team, it means our program is in a very pathetic state.



I really feel bad for those of you who can't remove your blue Bronco goggles for a moment to see the poor state of our program and where our program could be with a few simple changes that our coaches seem oblivious to or to prideful to make.



So many on here have predicted a hurt Riley and a hurt Hill if Doman didn't adapt. Many predicted a ceiling of losing to the good and great teams. We have been at that ceiling for years. We beat cupcakes, beat a mediocre team or two, lose to decent teams, and get blown out by good teams. Our 10-3 seasons are junk! Our #25 rating last year was not deserved. We are becoming a second tier MWC/WAC team. In these old conferences, we would be at the level of USU. If we played them away this year, we would have lost. We are behing the BSU, UofU, TCU, ND, etc of the world and are hovering at about the USU, Air Force, SDSU and usually Hawaii level for the past three years. THIS IS CAUSE FOR MAJOR FREAKING CONCERN!

Air wolf is that you?

Flawed as he was, I thought AirWolfe occasionally displayed sound logic - now if this poster made up a story about leaving early because his wife was eating too many expensive hot dogs.....



But it has been a while and AirWolfe could have lost his one remaining marble.



TIC of course - unless it isn't.



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ganbare wrote:

jonnylingo wrote:

From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0.

I think that is because absent a few small boneheaded decisions by our coaches we probably would be 6-0. kind of like playing riley injured after giving someone else the reps all week basically acknowledging that you knew riley was hurt and then keeping him in the whole game and the next game until a true freshman came in and almost won the game despite these ridiculous decisions.



we are mad because we care we were so close to a phenomenal season had simply better decision been made. doman and bronco get paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

I'm pretty pissed about it too but what good does it do anyone to keep rehashing it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Every freaking thread that is created is a new complaint about the same freaking things everyone has been complaining about since the utah loss. Like bib said, you wouldn't even know whe have a game on saturday, that by the way, is against the #10 ranked team in the country and BYU has a great shot at beating them and making a national splash, 2 losses and all.

Just curious frdbtr, for the record, do you think Bronco is a good Head Coach? (I didn't say DC) Do you think Doman is a good OC? If you were Bronco, would you fire Doman? Would you fire Weber? If you were the AD would you put pressure on Bronco to make changes by removing the OC? I'm really interested in your reply.



I believe this year was a year in which all the stars were aligning for something truly special. I know that's why you have fans so frustrated. These kind of years may only come every 10-20 years or so. We're not bitching because we are negative and like to complain, we extremely disappointed with the numerous mistakes that should have been avoided with a true top level BCS contending institution. We're not crying...we're passionate!! I've been a fan since the 60's and live and breathe BYU, for generations, you won't find someone who bleeds blue more than me. Jacksonman, pjmuli and jonnylingo get it. I live in a world where not everyone gets a medal world, where excellence is rewarded, incompetence is not tolerated. Stupidty is a self-correcting problem...Margaret Thatcher. One way or another things should right themselves.

If you thought the stars were all aligned for something special - you do live in your own little world.



Something Special rarely happens when

Your field goal kicker goes down before the season starts

You don't even know who your fullback is

Your starting QB is injury prone and there is no experienced back-up

You do not have a starting center and are on the 3rd one with no experience by week 4 plus 2 other OL newbies - and most of your OL missed Spring and Fall camp

Your star RB is a converted linebacker - it usually converts the other way

Tight End is a ? Even if it turns out to be a bright spot.

One of your WR is over hyped

You are still breaking in an overhauled coaching staff

The schedule has 4 tough road games plus OSU, USU, and WSU and SJSU at home.



Even when you do have the best defense BYU has ever had.



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frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
From all the crying, hand wringing, bitching, and moaning going on here you would think this team is 2-4 instead of 4-2. I haven't read this much negativity since the crowton days and the most ironic thing is, the people who are crying the loudest are the ones that stated that they were not going to let their expectations get out of hand. Now they are crying that we aren't 6-0.

I think that is because absent a few small boneheaded decisions by our coaches we probably would be 6-0. kind of like playing riley injured after giving someone else the reps all week basically acknowledging that you knew riley was hurt and then keeping him in the whole game and the next game until a true freshman came in and almost won the game despite these ridiculous decisions.



we are mad because we care we were so close to a phenomenal season had simply better decision been made. doman and bronco get paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

I'm pretty pissed about it too but what good does it do anyone to keep rehashing it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Every freaking thread that is created is a new complaint about the same freaking things everyone has been complaining about since the utah loss. Like bib said, you wouldn't even know whe have a game on saturday, that by the way, is against the #10 ranked team in the country and BYU has a great shot at beating them and making a national splash, 2 losses and all.

What are the point of these forums if not to blow off some steam from time to time? I'm here to discuss the goods, the bads, and the uglies of BYU sports, and lately half the the play and associated coaching is in the ugly category. We can't always be blowing smoke up the coaches' arses...

Every year we wonder about the what if's, during Beck and Hall we were a couple of plays away in some years to bust the BCS. I have always consoled myself with Broco's contant improvement mantra, but we are officially not progressing anymore. After rebuilding and the pains of Heaps and RN, this year we have a team on both sides of the ball that was supposed to deliver. We all know of our defense strength and quite frankly it's our joy and pride at this point, but our offense is not bad. We would be scoring points if coaches were to stick to the BYU offensive tradition, identify the QB that best fits that scheme and then execute. Bronco is not putting the right people in place, those who he puts in coaching position are failing and he is failing to see the error of his ways.



After what we have seen this coaching staff (+prideful, selfish Riley Nelson) do this year so far, WE HAVE EVERY REASON TO BE PISSED, we are wasting the best defense BYU likely will have ever had and maybe never have again. Yes, we are high maintenance, we have high expectations, for crying out loud, we love our Cougars, we suffer and rejoice with every loss or win.



So, I am pissed and no matter what Bronco, Riley or other non-fans on this board are saying, rightly so...

Jacksonman, here's how it works.



BYU football underperforms, resulting in a tidal wave of complaints and calls for action. As the week progresses and we move closer to the next game the weaknesses suddenly move to the back burner as optimism for the next game takes over. By Thursday or Friday, anyone bemoaning the coaching staff, our lack of progress, etc. gets labeled a Ute and the most vocal are deemed the reincarnation of Airwolf.



BYU will underperform against decent competition, even though we may win, and the complaints will resurface. Thursday will roll around again and once again we'll be reassured by self proclaimed "true fans" that last week's problems have been addressed, the ship will be righted, and in the large scheme BYU is a Top 25 team and we shouldn't look into our inability to beat good teams as every team struggles to beat good teams, blah, blah, blah...



Fact of the matter is BYU football is headed in the wrong direction; Doman was supposed to take us to the next level; Bronco promised a return to national prominence. Yet, we are no closer to it then we were 10 years ago.



Thank goodness for Rose and basketball.