Should we drop kick PATs?

I think it might work better for us than what we've done in the past, and it's legal.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ICnqec6KO48

Would it count? Hill still has one good leg and Riley will do anything to get on the field.



And - our punter has been our kicker. Lark wants more PT and special teams is a proven stepping stone.



Wait - Jason Munns. He has gotta have a big leg.



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Here's Doug Flutie's drop kick:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA7Yp6UrAWI

I am confused about why BYU (the world is our campus) can't find a good kicker. Everyone tells me that kicking a field goal is harder than it looks. I decided to see for myself. I bought a regulation ball, and a field goal stand. I watched a couple of instructional youtube videos and then went to our local highschool. I shanked a few. Then I hit 6/7 from the 10 yard line, and then hit three in a row from the 15. I am 43 years old for crying out loud. What gives.



I'm sure it is harder when you are kicking over 11 tall guys that are running at you. But I no longer buy into the difficulty of kicking a field goal.



GET A KICKER! They may not be real football players, but they do score REAL points and really WIN games! In fact, get a kicking coach. The math isn't that difficult to figure out. Can the football team borrow one of the womens soccer players for a game? Apparently my neighbor across the street played womens soccor in college, and also kicked a few extra points for her football team. Her sorrority held up signs that said "Liz scores with the team".

Yeah.........no.



What about our kicking game makes you think we're going to have better luck dropping the ball and kicking it off the bounce? That's the hard part, and what most don't realize--to drop kick the extra point you have to let the ball hit the ground, and then kick it off the bounce. Otherwise, it's considered a punt and the other team gets a touchback.



It's such an archaic, unused part of the game that I wager 90%+ fans don't realize there is a difference between a drop kick and a punt.

Dwight wrote:
I am confused about why BYU (the world is our campus) can't find a good kicker. Everyone tells me that kicking a field goal is harder than it looks. I decided to see for myself. I bought a regulation ball, and a field goal stand. I watched a couple of instructional youtube videos and then went to our local highschool. I shanked a few. Then I hit 6/7 from the 10 yard line, and then hit three in a row from the 15. I am 43 years old for crying out loud. What gives.



I'm sure it is harder when you are kicking over 11 tall guys that are running at you. But I no longer buy into the difficulty of kicking a field goal.



GET A KICKER! They may not be real football players, but they do score REAL points and really WIN games! In fact, get a kicking coach. The math isn't that difficult to figure out. Can the football team borrow one of the womens soccer players for a game? Apparently my neighbor across the street played womens soccor in college, and also kicked a few extra points for her football team. Her sorrority held up signs that said "Liz scores with the team".

The problem with kicking in NCAA football is that no school has an actual qualified kicking coach on staff. No one at BYU is really qualified to look at what Sorensen and Stephenson are doing and really help them improve---the kickers are relegated to watching the same videos you watch and sometimes if the film guys find time for the kickers, they can get some film of the NFL great kickers synced up to run side-by-side with what they are doing for comparison, but that's about it. If they are really fortunate, the school will splurge in the Spring for a "consultant" to come in and spend a week with them, but I don't think BYU has ever done that, and the consultants cost a pretty penny so they go to the BC$ teams who pay them best.



Until the NCAA either ends restrictions on the number of coaches/staff (never going to happen), or allows each school one kicking coach (slightly more likely, but too prone to abuse ["here's our kicking coach, John Tait. He will *also* be working with our OL *when he can find the time*"]), then the kicking game in college will be subject to guys struggling all season long to figure out what they are doing wrong.

How about just dropping PATs and going for two?

BoiseBYU wrote:
How about just dropping PATs and going for two?

This just might happen. But Wait - we have no offense.

:)



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I used to drop kick all the time. It is no harder than place kicking though you may get better distance from place kicking.



The advantages of the drop kick is that it gives you an extra blocker and eliminates some of the things that can go wrong by not have so many people handle the ball and thus eliminates timing issues. Also it is easier to run a fake out of a drop kick formation because the kicker can see the field and has the ball in his hands.

snoscythe wrote:
Yeah.........no.



What about our kicking game makes you think we're going to have better luck dropping the ball and kicking it off the bounce? That's the hard part, and what most don't realize--to drop kick the extra point you have to let the ball hit the ground, and then kick it off the bounce. Otherwise, it's considered a punt and the other team gets a touchback.



It's such an archaic, unused part of the game that I wager 90%+ fans don't realize there is a difference between a drop kick and a punt.

Come on, we're not that stupid. Notice everyone in this thread that has addressed the issue called it a "drop kick" not a "punt." No one here thinks you can punt the ball trough the uprights and get a field goal or extra point, so this "drop kick" thing that allows you to get the points instead of a touchback must be different than a "punt."



I'm not arguing that a drop kick is easier than a place kick. If drop kicking were easier than place kicking, we'd see NCAA and NFL teams recruiting rugby players to attempt drop kicks.

Mingjai wrote:

Yeah.........no.



What about our kicking game makes you think we're going to have better luck dropping the ball and kicking it off the bounce? That's the hard part, and what most don't realize--to drop kick the extra point you have to let the ball hit the ground, and then kick it off the bounce. Otherwise, it's considered a punt and the other team gets a touchback.



It's such an archaic, unused part of the game that I wager 90%+ fans don't realize there is a difference between a drop kick and a punt.

Come on, we're not that stupid. Notice everyone in this thread that has addressed the issue called it a "drop kick" not a "punt." No one here thinks you can punt the ball trough the uprights and get a field goal or extra point, so this "drop kick" thing that allows you to get the points instead of a touchback must be different than a "punt."



I'm not arguing that a drop kick is easier than a place kick. If drop kicking were easier than place kicking, we'd see NCAA and NFL teams recruiting rugby players to attempt drop kicks.

I knew you had to bounce it off the ground. That is why it is a field goal or PAT depending on the situation (post touchdown or not). Maybe there is some innovation there to be played with. Just because no one has tried it for decades (besides Flutie), doesn't mean it can't work for shorter field goals--especially with the problems we have been having blocking for extra points. Throw in another blocker, or even the three person wall, bounce it off the ground, and send it sailing. Or, go for two since it is directly snapped to the kicker. Lasike played rugby. Any chance he can drop kick it.



A great defense with a good kicking game can win championships. With a good kicking game, we would be undefeated this year. Boy are we desperate for a kicking game!

I have a better idea: How about we use our kicker, who is 51/51 in PAT attempts in college, instead of using our punter to kick extra points?



On that note, we should also use our QB's to throw and our RB's to run.

Stirfry wrote:
I have a better idea: How about we use our kicker, who is 51/51 in PAT attempts in college, instead of using our punter to kick extra points?



On that note, we should also use our QB's to throw and our RB's to run.

Ahhhhhhhh! Are you mad man???? Using QB's to throw and RB's to run---what next, a horseless carriage to flit us to and fro? No my friend, let us continue on with our QB draw plays and our RB's used as ornaments in our formations and happily tread the path to frustration and ineptitude as is our destiny. ;)

Baaaahhhhh-ZING!!! Yes, I think we have some very ambiguous "job descriptions" for QBs, RBs.



I want to see Cody Hoffman throw it to James Lark, who hands it off to KVN. Maybe Ansah, depending on the down, yards needed, etc...

TulaneVandyRiceCoug wrote:
Baaaahhhhh-ZING!!! Yes, I think we have some very ambiguous "job descriptions" for QBs, RBs.



I want to see Cody Hoffman throw it to James Lark, who hands it off to KVN. Maybe Ansah, depending on the down, yards needed, etc...

Or... How about our QB is a gunner on special teams. Oh wait.... :bug:





Can you imagine being a DB and having Ziggy coming at you full speed :sick:

Cougarfan87 wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Yeah.........no.



What about our kicking game makes you think we're going to have better luck dropping the ball and kicking it off the bounce? That's the hard part, and what most don't realize--to drop kick the extra point you have to let the ball hit the ground, and then kick it off the bounce. Otherwise, it's considered a punt and the other team gets a touchback.



It's such an archaic, unused part of the game that I wager 90%+ fans don't realize there is a difference between a drop kick and a punt.

Come on, we're not that stupid. Notice everyone in this thread that has addressed the issue called it a "drop kick" not a "punt." No one here thinks you can punt the ball trough the uprights and get a field goal or extra point, so this "drop kick" thing that allows you to get the points instead of a touchback must be different than a "punt."



I'm not arguing that a drop kick is easier than a place kick. If drop kicking were easier than place kicking, we'd see NCAA and NFL teams recruiting rugby players to attempt drop kicks.

I knew you had to bounce it off the ground. That is why it is a field goal or PAT depending on the situation (post touchdown or not). Maybe there is some innovation there to be played with. Just because no one has tried it for decades (besides Flutie), doesn't mean it can't work for shorter field goals--especially with the problems we have been having blocking for extra points. Throw in another blocker, or even the three person wall, bounce it off the ground, and send it sailing. Or, go for two since it is directly snapped to the kicker. Lasike played rugby. Any chance he can drop kick it.



A great defense with a good kicking game can win championships. With a good kicking game, we would be undefeated this year. Boy are we desperate for a kicking game!

One thing I did not know was that you used to be able to attempt a drop kick from anywhere on the field, even beyond the line of scrimmage. Apparently the NFL amended that rule in 1998 to make it match placekicking's behind the line rule. I don't know if the NCAA made that change or not.

Mingjai wrote:
One thing I did not know was that you used to be able to attempt a drop kick from anywhere on the field, even beyond the line of scrimmage. Apparently the NFL amended that rule in 1998 to make it match placekicking's behind the line rule. I don't know if the NCAA made that change or not.

Did they ever amend the rule that you can punt beyond the line of scrimmage. My dad used to tell me about some QB who would take off down field and then punt it. I want to say it was a BYU QB (perhaps McMahon) but that was before my time.

Cougarfan87 wrote:

One thing I did not know was that you used to be able to attempt a drop kick from anywhere on the field, even beyond the line of scrimmage. Apparently the NFL amended that rule in 1998 to make it match placekicking's behind the line rule. I don't know if the NCAA made that change or not.

Did they ever amend the rule that you can punt beyond the line of scrimmage. My dad used to tell me about some QB who would take off down field and then punt it. I want to say it was a BYU QB (perhaps McMahon) but that was before my time.

Yeah, the amendment all all scrimmage kicks (punts, field goals, and drops kicks) be kicked behind the line of scrimmage.